It's been sixty-six days since getting clean from a serious opiate habit and of course I'm staying not only clean, but sober too. A new first for me. I never counted alcohol among my problems... Wrong!
I'm finding that my emotions are very close to the surface.
Have any of you experienced this phenomenon? I hate it. Is it that I'm still in withdrawals at this late date? When does this fade?
Please tell me I'll get over it soon and this isn't my new state of sobriety! I read that story on here of the GI that left his dog at the pound and it brought me to tears. How embarrassing!
I'm ready to move on! This pansy s*** is getting old!
A new guy shared today that he's finally done with drinking and is embracing the program but is going to prison soon after his third DUI. He had his wife with him. His story brought a tear to my eye.
Enough with the emotions!
Have any of you opiate addicts experienced this? How long does it last?
Mark,
This opiate addict experienced all those emotions, surging and overwhelmingly powerful for around the first 90 days then things weren't as intense....the more I worked the steps and stayed sober, the more the big deals lessened and the rollercoster ride eased a bit.
Let your emotions flow right now, buddy. If you're like me, you've probably buried sh*t for years and that stuff is bubbling to the top so I found better to let it out then try to control it & shove it down.....
I can still tear up with compassion when I listen to others share but today it's because I can feel the pain, it's tears of compassion not self-pity.....
xoxo
Stacey
ps....take it easy on you, you're doing the deal, one day at a time~
This opiate addict experienced all those emotions, surging and overwhelmingly powerful for around the first 90 days then things weren't as intense....the more I worked the steps and stayed sober, the more the big deals lessened and the rollercoster ride eased a bit.
Let your emotions flow right now, buddy. If you're like me, you've probably buried sh*t for years and that stuff is bubbling to the top so I found better to let it out then try to control it & shove it down.....
I can still tear up with compassion when I listen to others share but today it's because I can feel the pain, it's tears of compassion not self-pity.....
xoxo
Stacey
ps....take it easy on you, you're doing the deal, one day at a time~
"It's good sometimes to let a little pain in; it proves you're still alive"
I was just thinking about how good it feels to be free. (11 months today!!) I get up in the morning and I'm totally free. I may have problems but being dependent on a drug isn't one of them.
I was very fragile at two months. Alot of times I still felt like using. I thank God I have somewhere to go when I feel that way. I have somewhere to go and I have someone to talk to. I have this board. This board and the people on it helped save me. I would have never went to NA had I not been nudged (ever so gently) to seek help. Keep reaching out when you need to and the lows won't be so low.
You are exactly where you are supposed to be Mark. It will be a roller coaster ride sometimes. The highs are high and the lows are low. I am starting to see how some of my behaviors cause me to go low. Some things are out of our control and some things are of our own making. We have to accept that we can't change some things and work on the things we can. It's not just saving the serenity prayer but learning to live it.
Keep doing what you're doing.
I was just thinking about how good it feels to be free. (11 months today!!) I get up in the morning and I'm totally free. I may have problems but being dependent on a drug isn't one of them.
I was very fragile at two months. Alot of times I still felt like using. I thank God I have somewhere to go when I feel that way. I have somewhere to go and I have someone to talk to. I have this board. This board and the people on it helped save me. I would have never went to NA had I not been nudged (ever so gently) to seek help. Keep reaching out when you need to and the lows won't be so low.
You are exactly where you are supposed to be Mark. It will be a roller coaster ride sometimes. The highs are high and the lows are low. I am starting to see how some of my behaviors cause me to go low. Some things are out of our control and some things are of our own making. We have to accept that we can't change some things and work on the things we can. It's not just saving the serenity prayer but learning to live it.
Keep doing what you're doing.
I was thinking I was beyond "early recovery" till some guy said in a meeting that you're in early recovery till two years clean!
If that's true, I'll quit sweating what stage of recovery I'm in and just take it one day at a time and be glad to be in recovery, period.
I went to one AA and two NA meetings today. I ran into a guy that said I saved his life in the seventies! I guess I wouldn't let him shoot the amount of dope he had prepared. I told him I wouldn't let him. So he cut it in half and I still wouldn't let him. He was pissed at me and thought I was trying to get some of his dope, but he finally cut it in a fourth and when he shot that, he fell out.
He said if I hadn't stopped him, he would have died from the od for sure.
I have no recollection of the incident whatsoever, but he says he'll never forget it.
I wonder what else I forgot. That whole period is foggy. He rattled off a bunch of names of guys we ran with that are dead now from Heroin overdoses. Freaky.
When I say the serenity prayer, I'm not sure what exactly I can change and what I can't. I guess it'll come to me in time. That would be the wisdom to know the difference part.
They say it's a simple program, but I'm not sure it's all that simple.
If that's true, I'll quit sweating what stage of recovery I'm in and just take it one day at a time and be glad to be in recovery, period.
I went to one AA and two NA meetings today. I ran into a guy that said I saved his life in the seventies! I guess I wouldn't let him shoot the amount of dope he had prepared. I told him I wouldn't let him. So he cut it in half and I still wouldn't let him. He was pissed at me and thought I was trying to get some of his dope, but he finally cut it in a fourth and when he shot that, he fell out.
He said if I hadn't stopped him, he would have died from the od for sure.
I have no recollection of the incident whatsoever, but he says he'll never forget it.
I wonder what else I forgot. That whole period is foggy. He rattled off a bunch of names of guys we ran with that are dead now from Heroin overdoses. Freaky.
When I say the serenity prayer, I'm not sure what exactly I can change and what I can't. I guess it'll come to me in time. That would be the wisdom to know the difference part.
They say it's a simple program, but I'm not sure it's all that simple.
That is so awesome Todd.
I am glad you are here.
Look up PAWS
Post acute withdrawl symptoms or syndrome.... something like that.
Hope it helps.
Best of luck and keep coming back.
Dawn
I am glad you are here.
Look up PAWS
Post acute withdrawl symptoms or syndrome.... something like that.
Hope it helps.
Best of luck and keep coming back.
Dawn
Mark, I withdrew from a relatively brief period of opiate dependence in connection with some health issues. I was not using recreationally, but my level of opiate dependence was very high. 30 days after my withdrawal was complete I experienced very heavy mood swings.
I was actively working a Program throughout the period I used the opiates, the withdrawal and afterward. This tells me that there is a component of opiate withdrawal that is purely physiologicalafter the opiates leave our system it takes a while for our bodies to adapt and to calibrate the right brain chemistry without the assistance of the opiates. Huge mood swings and crushing depression are two likely side effects. This is one of two issues you are likely facing. This is the smaller, less significant of the two.
When an addict stops using, up to that point, he has spent the lions share of his adult life turning to drugs and alcohol as a means of coping with his emotional issues. Most of us stopped growing emotionally when we became addicted. For me, this meant that I was a 15-year-old boy walking around in a 33 year old body. My level of education or station in life was irrelevant. I was a licensed professional but I was still a pimply faced kid in many respects.
I had a lot of growing up to do, and I had to do it at a time when my brain had passed adolescence, and thus was not as adaptable to learning new lessons as that of a young boy. Essentially, when we get sober, it takes us a longer time to catch up emotionally than had we done so on schedule. This is why face to face contact, meetings, sponsors, working the steps, and service work are so important. I will add that if it does not feel pretty raw at times, odds are you are subconsciously avoiding the really hard work.
When I came in the rooms, I wanted to advance to the front of the class, to succeed in recovery. These are good goals, but people in the rooms began sharing a lot about 90 day wonders. I wonder whom they meant??? This is a set up for our ego. Leave it to an addict to believe that he can achieve in 90 days that which takes a life time for the rest of us.
There is no pay grade in AA/NA, no corporate ladder to climb. Those impulses are simply our addictive thinking believing that we can somehow quickly get out of the mess we have created for ourselves and move on.
As to what is long-term recovery and what is not, well, I suppose that is in the eye of the beholder. I personally consider those with less than 5 years to be short timers. Those with less than a year are newcomers and extremely vulnerable to relapse. And these are just labels. I have seen many pick up a year chip, think they had done all the hard work, relax, and then go out on a slip.
Long term recovery? Ill let you know when I get there. Heck, the hardest year I had was year 9. Point is, there is no graduation. Part of joining the human race means that we have to live each day on its own terms. There will be good days and bad days, and on any given day, the person with the longest clean time has less emotional sobriety than the newcomer who walked in yesterday. It is part of the package.
Good luck,
August
I was actively working a Program throughout the period I used the opiates, the withdrawal and afterward. This tells me that there is a component of opiate withdrawal that is purely physiologicalafter the opiates leave our system it takes a while for our bodies to adapt and to calibrate the right brain chemistry without the assistance of the opiates. Huge mood swings and crushing depression are two likely side effects. This is one of two issues you are likely facing. This is the smaller, less significant of the two.
When an addict stops using, up to that point, he has spent the lions share of his adult life turning to drugs and alcohol as a means of coping with his emotional issues. Most of us stopped growing emotionally when we became addicted. For me, this meant that I was a 15-year-old boy walking around in a 33 year old body. My level of education or station in life was irrelevant. I was a licensed professional but I was still a pimply faced kid in many respects.
I had a lot of growing up to do, and I had to do it at a time when my brain had passed adolescence, and thus was not as adaptable to learning new lessons as that of a young boy. Essentially, when we get sober, it takes us a longer time to catch up emotionally than had we done so on schedule. This is why face to face contact, meetings, sponsors, working the steps, and service work are so important. I will add that if it does not feel pretty raw at times, odds are you are subconsciously avoiding the really hard work.
When I came in the rooms, I wanted to advance to the front of the class, to succeed in recovery. These are good goals, but people in the rooms began sharing a lot about 90 day wonders. I wonder whom they meant??? This is a set up for our ego. Leave it to an addict to believe that he can achieve in 90 days that which takes a life time for the rest of us.
There is no pay grade in AA/NA, no corporate ladder to climb. Those impulses are simply our addictive thinking believing that we can somehow quickly get out of the mess we have created for ourselves and move on.
As to what is long-term recovery and what is not, well, I suppose that is in the eye of the beholder. I personally consider those with less than 5 years to be short timers. Those with less than a year are newcomers and extremely vulnerable to relapse. And these are just labels. I have seen many pick up a year chip, think they had done all the hard work, relax, and then go out on a slip.
Long term recovery? Ill let you know when I get there. Heck, the hardest year I had was year 9. Point is, there is no graduation. Part of joining the human race means that we have to live each day on its own terms. There will be good days and bad days, and on any given day, the person with the longest clean time has less emotional sobriety than the newcomer who walked in yesterday. It is part of the package.
Good luck,
August
I was thinking I was beyond "early recovery" till some guy said in a meeting that you're in early recovery till two years clean!
Hi Mark
The extreme roller-coasters can go through 6 months.It is a physiological adjustment that will level out.We quit having emotions when we're dead.I've seen people with over a year have a bout with this so give yourself some time.I know you're in a hurry,you want to be done with all the steps,speaking at meetings etc.but try and just take it easy.One day at time.One foot in front of the other.You're living in the future and that's what's creating all this angst.
It's o.k for us guys to be emotional.You've had some pretty powerful chemicals making sure that didn't happen.They are still leaving your body and will do so for awhile.Everone's different,but you sound perfectly normal at the stage you're at.I believe the younger you are,the faster the drugs eliminate from your body.Older guys like us don't have the metabolism of a 25 year old.Drink lots of water.There's nothing like it.
I would cry at UNICEF commercials on TV.Keep going to meetings,start working the steps with your sponsor and all this will level out.I promise.
Hi Mark
The extreme roller-coasters can go through 6 months.It is a physiological adjustment that will level out.We quit having emotions when we're dead.I've seen people with over a year have a bout with this so give yourself some time.I know you're in a hurry,you want to be done with all the steps,speaking at meetings etc.but try and just take it easy.One day at time.One foot in front of the other.You're living in the future and that's what's creating all this angst.
It's o.k for us guys to be emotional.You've had some pretty powerful chemicals making sure that didn't happen.They are still leaving your body and will do so for awhile.Everone's different,but you sound perfectly normal at the stage you're at.I believe the younger you are,the faster the drugs eliminate from your body.Older guys like us don't have the metabolism of a 25 year old.Drink lots of water.There's nothing like it.
I would cry at UNICEF commercials on TV.Keep going to meetings,start working the steps with your sponsor and all this will level out.I promise.
By the way, Alice, congrats on 11 months! That's awesome.
I had a pet possum while in the oil fields of Texas. His name was Awesome Possum. I just thought of that. You're awesome possum, Alice!
August, I guess that makes me a 15 year old in a 55 year old body. I've got you beat! It's not all bad, though. I relate to the nepehws and nieces better than any one in the family. lol I'm their "cool" uncle.
Tim, crying at UNICEF commercials? lol Thanks for that. Makes me feel better. Seriously.
I better just enjoy the ride, at 55 I'm in no hurry for time to pass too quickly. It does that anyway!!
Much love to all
Mark
I had a pet possum while in the oil fields of Texas. His name was Awesome Possum. I just thought of that. You're awesome possum, Alice!
August, I guess that makes me a 15 year old in a 55 year old body. I've got you beat! It's not all bad, though. I relate to the nepehws and nieces better than any one in the family. lol I'm their "cool" uncle.
Tim, crying at UNICEF commercials? lol Thanks for that. Makes me feel better. Seriously.
I better just enjoy the ride, at 55 I'm in no hurry for time to pass too quickly. It does that anyway!!
Much love to all
Mark
They say it's a simple program, but I'm not sure it's all that simple.
Simple, not easy...LOL
Simple, not easy...LOL
I've been to six or eight meetings without opening my mouth. Except to do readings.
I've even declined to share a couple times when called upon. I wasn't feeling it.
Tonight I tried something new. I prayed for guidance before the meeting.
I shared. It was true and about my feelings regarding the program and where I'm at now.
It was the first time I opened up. Before, I thought I was opening up, but I wasn't. I was saying what I thought I should feel, not what I really feel.
For the first time, I didn't drive home thinking what I should have said.
I just left with a satisfied feeling. Plus, I got a lot of good feedback,
like I do here.
I'll be meeting with my sponsor tomorrow. I haven't seen him in three weeks. My fault, not his. Actually, no harm, no foul.
I don't want to be pushed. He's letting me do this thing at my own speed. If I had a sponsor that wanted me to call him everyday, I'd dump him. Aiden's no dummy. He probably senses that.
I'm going to open up to him tomorrow too. I've had many revelations that I'm going to share with him.
He, and others, have confessed they were in the program a year or two before getting a sponsor and doing the steps.
I decided that's not for me; I'm carrying too much baggage around with me to wait! I want to be shed of this bulls*** once and for all!
I wasn't emotionally or mentally ready to get down with the steps before now.
You have to be honest with yourself before you can be honest with others.
I've decided I want to do the steps to the best of my ability as soon as possible. If it's not a perfect effort, then I can revisit them.
These past two months, it seems like when I think I'm about to set out on a major journey of self discovery, I find I'm just moving to a different starting place.
That's ok.
At least I'm moving. And each time I move, I gain a better perspective of the obstacle course that lies ahead. Before now, it seemed impossible.
From where I stand now, it doesn't seem so overwhelming.
Off we go!
M.
I've even declined to share a couple times when called upon. I wasn't feeling it.
Tonight I tried something new. I prayed for guidance before the meeting.
I shared. It was true and about my feelings regarding the program and where I'm at now.
It was the first time I opened up. Before, I thought I was opening up, but I wasn't. I was saying what I thought I should feel, not what I really feel.
For the first time, I didn't drive home thinking what I should have said.
I just left with a satisfied feeling. Plus, I got a lot of good feedback,
like I do here.
I'll be meeting with my sponsor tomorrow. I haven't seen him in three weeks. My fault, not his. Actually, no harm, no foul.
I don't want to be pushed. He's letting me do this thing at my own speed. If I had a sponsor that wanted me to call him everyday, I'd dump him. Aiden's no dummy. He probably senses that.
I'm going to open up to him tomorrow too. I've had many revelations that I'm going to share with him.
He, and others, have confessed they were in the program a year or two before getting a sponsor and doing the steps.
I decided that's not for me; I'm carrying too much baggage around with me to wait! I want to be shed of this bulls*** once and for all!
I wasn't emotionally or mentally ready to get down with the steps before now.
You have to be honest with yourself before you can be honest with others.
I've decided I want to do the steps to the best of my ability as soon as possible. If it's not a perfect effort, then I can revisit them.
These past two months, it seems like when I think I'm about to set out on a major journey of self discovery, I find I'm just moving to a different starting place.
That's ok.
At least I'm moving. And each time I move, I gain a better perspective of the obstacle course that lies ahead. Before now, it seemed impossible.
From where I stand now, it doesn't seem so overwhelming.
Off we go!
M.
It's a simple program for complicated people.
Mark,I'm glad you shared and opened up.This is for you and nobody else has to approve or disapprove.Just talk about where you are at.
I know you're going to do what you want but two and three weeks between talking with your sponsor is too long,especially when you're new.When you get started on the steps,you're going to need a closer interaction.
Anyway,hang in there.You're doing good.
Mark,I'm glad you shared and opened up.This is for you and nobody else has to approve or disapprove.Just talk about where you are at.
I know you're going to do what you want but two and three weeks between talking with your sponsor is too long,especially when you're new.When you get started on the steps,you're going to need a closer interaction.
Anyway,hang in there.You're doing good.
Sounds great Mark. Leaving the meeting with a satisfied feeling. I think that means it's working. Thank you for the awesome possum. I've been called a few things but never that. I'll take it. You really have come a long way in two months. Don't sell yourself short. It sounds like you are becoming more comfortable in your own skin and that is great.
I confess I don't always speak to my sponser but I text her alot. She'll be in work or class and I just drop her a quick text to let her know what I'm up to. If I sound sad she'll always tell me to call her at a certain time. I try to follow up because if I don't she'll call me. I try not to go on and on about personal problems but just to speak a sentence or two about what I'm feeling. It always feels good to get it out there. Oftentimes I come to grips with what I'm feeling right then and there. She always tell me to pray which is simple but sometimes I forget. I do always thank God for everything. I've always been that way but the problems I tend to hold onto. It serves as a reminder that I don't have to carry those burdens myself.
I'm heading out to the gym. I have to work the whole weekend and holiday. Boo hoo. I'll be online if it's quiet in the ER.
I confess I don't always speak to my sponser but I text her alot. She'll be in work or class and I just drop her a quick text to let her know what I'm up to. If I sound sad she'll always tell me to call her at a certain time. I try to follow up because if I don't she'll call me. I try not to go on and on about personal problems but just to speak a sentence or two about what I'm feeling. It always feels good to get it out there. Oftentimes I come to grips with what I'm feeling right then and there. She always tell me to pray which is simple but sometimes I forget. I do always thank God for everything. I've always been that way but the problems I tend to hold onto. It serves as a reminder that I don't have to carry those burdens myself.
I'm heading out to the gym. I have to work the whole weekend and holiday. Boo hoo. I'll be online if it's quiet in the ER.
Tim, I'm not new! I've got sixty days under my belt! Jeez.
Besides, I didn't say I haven't talked to him in three weeks, just haven't SEEN him.
Saw him this am at the big stag meeting. Usually guys pick up chips for five years, ten years, eighteen years, and five or six guys with multiple months and so on. They normally hand out six or eight chips, or more.
This morning, my sixty day chip was the ONLY ONE handed out! No 24 hour chips, no multiple years, nothing! Very unusual!
So, I was chosen to start the meeting and then pick a topic of discussion.
Very intimidating, and I was unprepared!
Usually the guys that pick up multiple year chips start things off.
But I just shared from the heart and then picked step one for discussion. From then on, each man directed their talk directly at me.
Again, very unusual. But it was cool since each speaker had plenty of sobriety and was right on topic.
I got a lot to think about for sure.
I'll bet I never go to another Saturday morning men's meeting there where only one chip is handed out.
Very strange, indeed.
M
Besides, I didn't say I haven't talked to him in three weeks, just haven't SEEN him.
Saw him this am at the big stag meeting. Usually guys pick up chips for five years, ten years, eighteen years, and five or six guys with multiple months and so on. They normally hand out six or eight chips, or more.
This morning, my sixty day chip was the ONLY ONE handed out! No 24 hour chips, no multiple years, nothing! Very unusual!
So, I was chosen to start the meeting and then pick a topic of discussion.
Very intimidating, and I was unprepared!
Usually the guys that pick up multiple year chips start things off.
But I just shared from the heart and then picked step one for discussion. From then on, each man directed their talk directly at me.
Again, very unusual. But it was cool since each speaker had plenty of sobriety and was right on topic.
I got a lot to think about for sure.
I'll bet I never go to another Saturday morning men's meeting there where only one chip is handed out.
Very strange, indeed.
M
I've got to gain a better understanding of my higher power at this point.
Further development hinges on that. It's that simple.
I've got to know better the thing to which I pray.
I'll check back when that work is done.
M.
Further development hinges on that. It's that simple.
I've got to know better the thing to which I pray.
I'll check back when that work is done.
M.
--->"I'll check back when that work is done."
Now that's a classic.
I had that mindset, it must be some type of addict thing brought on by the running out of dope. I was so used to the pills are all gone. End thinking I call it.
Everything has to end ( I remember back when abandonment issues where very chic)--seemed that was what everyone talked about
Like my job is gonna fire me, might as well quit.
This girl is gonna leave me, might as well end it.
When am I gonna get it-(recovery)-never seemed to get it, so I used.
Come to find out somethings never end. Now there's a list I could make. Things that don't end or run out. Hmm.
Reminds me of a story I heard. Not sure why?
Normal guy goes into work boss says--"I need to talk to you, my office in 10 minutes.
Normal guy waits goes and sees boss returns to work.
Addict guy goes into work boss says "I need to talk to you in my office in 10 minutes."
Addict immediately panics. Goes to bathroom. Tries to figure out why the boss wants to see him. Comes to the conclusion he has done something wrong, figures he will quit before the meeting.
Leaves work on the way home he figures now that he has lost his job, the wife is gonna leave him,
Without a job or a wife he figures he will never make the mortgage so in a state of disbelief of how quickly his life has deteriorated he swings by the bank takes out all his cash $874 bucks buys some dope, gets high and blames the boss and the old lady for being so mean
Cool thread has always Mark..
Now that's a classic.
I had that mindset, it must be some type of addict thing brought on by the running out of dope. I was so used to the pills are all gone. End thinking I call it.
Everything has to end ( I remember back when abandonment issues where very chic)--seemed that was what everyone talked about
Like my job is gonna fire me, might as well quit.
This girl is gonna leave me, might as well end it.
When am I gonna get it-(recovery)-never seemed to get it, so I used.
Come to find out somethings never end. Now there's a list I could make. Things that don't end or run out. Hmm.
Reminds me of a story I heard. Not sure why?
Normal guy goes into work boss says--"I need to talk to you, my office in 10 minutes.
Normal guy waits goes and sees boss returns to work.
Addict guy goes into work boss says "I need to talk to you in my office in 10 minutes."
Addict immediately panics. Goes to bathroom. Tries to figure out why the boss wants to see him. Comes to the conclusion he has done something wrong, figures he will quit before the meeting.
Leaves work on the way home he figures now that he has lost his job, the wife is gonna leave him,
Without a job or a wife he figures he will never make the mortgage so in a state of disbelief of how quickly his life has deteriorated he swings by the bank takes out all his cash $874 bucks buys some dope, gets high and blames the boss and the old lady for being so mean
Cool thread has always Mark..
I'll check back when that work is done.
What does that mean?
I sent you an e-mail explaining a bit of what I went through over this so I won't repeat it.Just because you can't grasp the concept of a HP right away is nothing new.It has taken me years and a lot of personal therapy to undo some of the theocracy that was shoved down my throat.
It's a process.You are doing all the right things and something will resonante with you that you can grasp.Check out other resources besides what you were brought up with.I look at GOD or my HP as an inclusive entity that is nature,other people's words,the sky,the ocean,being alone and knowing that I'm not alone.There is a light inside me that will tell me that I'm going to be o.k.when times are bad and in all honesty times are very bleak right now.I'm hanging by a thread with my business but yet I keep hearing a soft voice saying"Tim,you're going to survive".That's what my HP is.It's inside me and it's inside everyone.You just have to look.If I didn't have that I would just say "f*** it" and use and drink till I died.
Hope.It can be elusive when we constantly are trying to fill a hole that's already occupied.We choose to shut the door on that reality and then life has no meaning.
All you have to do today is speak these words."I am willing to listen and open my heart that there is a power inside me".You can all him God or whatever you choose but it's no accident that you are clean and sober today.
Hang in there Mark.
What does that mean?
I sent you an e-mail explaining a bit of what I went through over this so I won't repeat it.Just because you can't grasp the concept of a HP right away is nothing new.It has taken me years and a lot of personal therapy to undo some of the theocracy that was shoved down my throat.
It's a process.You are doing all the right things and something will resonante with you that you can grasp.Check out other resources besides what you were brought up with.I look at GOD or my HP as an inclusive entity that is nature,other people's words,the sky,the ocean,being alone and knowing that I'm not alone.There is a light inside me that will tell me that I'm going to be o.k.when times are bad and in all honesty times are very bleak right now.I'm hanging by a thread with my business but yet I keep hearing a soft voice saying"Tim,you're going to survive".That's what my HP is.It's inside me and it's inside everyone.You just have to look.If I didn't have that I would just say "f*** it" and use and drink till I died.
Hope.It can be elusive when we constantly are trying to fill a hole that's already occupied.We choose to shut the door on that reality and then life has no meaning.
All you have to do today is speak these words."I am willing to listen and open my heart that there is a power inside me".You can all him God or whatever you choose but it's no accident that you are clean and sober today.
Hang in there Mark.
Mark, I do not presume to know where you are at in your recovery, but I interpreted your last post to mean that you cannot make much forward movement in the stepsif you have not turned it over, (the 3rd) and you cannot turn if over until you have something to turn it over to (the 2nd).
This is not an uncommon problem for those in early recovery. There is a natural desire to push forward but how can you force yourself to believe? Below is a link that discusses this at length. I suggest you read the entire chapter, twice if necessary.
http://www.whytehouse.com/big_book_...book/ch4p45.asp
By way of introduction here are a couple of thoughts laid out in the first few paragraphs.
If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly.
***
Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem.
***
the word 'God' brought up a particular idea of Him with which someone had tried to impress them during childhood. Perhaps we rejected this particular conception because it seemed inadequate. With that rejection we imagined we had abandoned the God idea entirely. We were bothered with the thought that faith and dependence upon a Power beyond ourselves was somewhat weak, even cowardly. We looked upon this world of warring individuals, warring theological systems, and inexplicable calamity, with deep skepticism...
Yes, we of agnostic temperament have had these thoughts and experiences. Let us make haste to reassure you. We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God.
Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps.
Mark, there is nothing wrong with raising your hand and talking about how you are struggling with this issue. If you do this, you are likely to hear something that resonates, something that can begin to get you unstuck.
Good luck,
August
This is not an uncommon problem for those in early recovery. There is a natural desire to push forward but how can you force yourself to believe? Below is a link that discusses this at length. I suggest you read the entire chapter, twice if necessary.
http://www.whytehouse.com/big_book_...book/ch4p45.asp
By way of introduction here are a couple of thoughts laid out in the first few paragraphs.
If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly.
***
Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem.
***
the word 'God' brought up a particular idea of Him with which someone had tried to impress them during childhood. Perhaps we rejected this particular conception because it seemed inadequate. With that rejection we imagined we had abandoned the God idea entirely. We were bothered with the thought that faith and dependence upon a Power beyond ourselves was somewhat weak, even cowardly. We looked upon this world of warring individuals, warring theological systems, and inexplicable calamity, with deep skepticism...
Yes, we of agnostic temperament have had these thoughts and experiences. Let us make haste to reassure you. We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God.
Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps.
Mark, there is nothing wrong with raising your hand and talking about how you are struggling with this issue. If you do this, you are likely to hear something that resonates, something that can begin to get you unstuck.
Good luck,
August
Hi Mark,
I find myself in your threads all the time. I figure it is because they are so relevant to my healing. I pray you stay around.
Excuse me for this long post, but right now this is such a wonderful place for me to do some "work", I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your posts.
Interesting that this thread is about feelings and leading to step 2 discussion. They are intertwined for me.
I took a step back to step 1 particular this question found on page 21 of the NA basic text. Check out the wording.
"It never occurred to us to ask. If we can not control our addiction, how can we control our lives". We felt miserable without drugs, and our lives were unmanageable.
I guess one of my core beliefs was, Joe on drugs (trouble) Joe off drugs great guy.
This is true, in part. however my life shows me that Joe off drugs, with the same patterns and beliefs has Joe on drugs will eventually return to Joe on drugs.
While a whole list of patterns needed to be broken The logical starting point once the drug usage stopped was with my relationship with God.
I remember you sharing you were catholic and so am I, these were the 3 profound events in my life that impacted my ability to love God, To believe in God and to eventually Trust God.
I really needed to process them, which I continue to do. In posts like this.
I am getting better and has I heal I can live more in the Now and less in the past. Patterns begin to shift and I start to react differently. I change.
1. At about 10 years old me and two friends were in church, we were happy, very happy and care free. In fact we were laughing (something i love to do, something God blessed me with, a great sense of humor, the ability to laugh and make others laugh.)
Well, this did not sit well with Father Purcell, who was saying the mass. He called us to the alter after mass, brought us into a side room and with a rage I will never forget called our laughter, SIN and wrong and well he lost it on us.
I was so afraid, so scared, well From that moment on every time i wanted to use laughter to express my love for God I couldn't, I began to feel I was wrong, I must be, father Purcell said so, he told my Dad. That single event kept me in a belief pattern of Joe "your just wrong" for my whole life.
The fear, the hurt, the loss devastating. The fact Laughter is a blessing and the feelings from that event have to be processed and cried about and let go.They are.
2. At about 12 yeas old my dad took me to New York City. this is the single most profound Feeling I have ever felt spiritually in my life, to this moment I can recall it instantly. I know it has meaning and purpose, I am on a spiritual mission to discover what that is.
As we drove in the city for the first time, and this is Manhattan in the mid seventies I was not taken by the wonderful skyscrapers my family was raving on about.
No I caught my first glimpse of a major housing project in complete decay. I can still remember the sun hitting it,, It was so hot, and the kids my age around 12 or younger with a complete look of detachment and loss in there eye, they looked dead, and the smell and the enormity of it.
The thought that came with that was "God can't be here, he would never allow people to live like this,". This started a belief pattern I now recognize. That God only cares about certain people. I see now that is a false feeling, but I work on it everyday.
I'm not sure but I think I misinterpreted the whole experience
I believe God put that great of an impact on me because he was showing me my divine calling, I have yet to identify exactly what his will is for me is But I know it is in the reliving of suffering in my fellow man.
3. My mom and dad's decent into alcoholism. This was ongoing from the time of my earliest memories until today. My dad was weakened terrible by the bottle as one my mom, the fear, hurt, hatred and disgust I had for booze all those emotions being unprocessed stuffed down frozen man it made connect with God impossible, God had abandon me, he did not care, he could not be trusted I am on my own, " F*** IT"
That became the voice of my addiction right there. You know when i get to that point, use or don't use. I would always say "F*** IT" and use.
So I say all this to say that those 3 events created my core belief about God,
He wasn't funny
He wasn't there when you needed him most.
He didn't really care, not really
He hated me.
This was the old thinking, this was what kept me returning over and over to dope.
It was a lie, a lie I believed to be true I needed to it was only way I could survive in my addiction.
My knew belief is.
God is funny (for me)
God is there always (it's up to me to recognize him)
God cares (in fact that's all he does, God is Love)
God loves me.
With my new belief system I can finally begin to heal.
Have a great one.
I find myself in your threads all the time. I figure it is because they are so relevant to my healing. I pray you stay around.
Excuse me for this long post, but right now this is such a wonderful place for me to do some "work", I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your posts.
Interesting that this thread is about feelings and leading to step 2 discussion. They are intertwined for me.
I took a step back to step 1 particular this question found on page 21 of the NA basic text. Check out the wording.
"It never occurred to us to ask. If we can not control our addiction, how can we control our lives". We felt miserable without drugs, and our lives were unmanageable.
I guess one of my core beliefs was, Joe on drugs (trouble) Joe off drugs great guy.
This is true, in part. however my life shows me that Joe off drugs, with the same patterns and beliefs has Joe on drugs will eventually return to Joe on drugs.
While a whole list of patterns needed to be broken The logical starting point once the drug usage stopped was with my relationship with God.
I remember you sharing you were catholic and so am I, these were the 3 profound events in my life that impacted my ability to love God, To believe in God and to eventually Trust God.
I really needed to process them, which I continue to do. In posts like this.
I am getting better and has I heal I can live more in the Now and less in the past. Patterns begin to shift and I start to react differently. I change.
1. At about 10 years old me and two friends were in church, we were happy, very happy and care free. In fact we were laughing (something i love to do, something God blessed me with, a great sense of humor, the ability to laugh and make others laugh.)
Well, this did not sit well with Father Purcell, who was saying the mass. He called us to the alter after mass, brought us into a side room and with a rage I will never forget called our laughter, SIN and wrong and well he lost it on us.
I was so afraid, so scared, well From that moment on every time i wanted to use laughter to express my love for God I couldn't, I began to feel I was wrong, I must be, father Purcell said so, he told my Dad. That single event kept me in a belief pattern of Joe "your just wrong" for my whole life.
The fear, the hurt, the loss devastating. The fact Laughter is a blessing and the feelings from that event have to be processed and cried about and let go.They are.
2. At about 12 yeas old my dad took me to New York City. this is the single most profound Feeling I have ever felt spiritually in my life, to this moment I can recall it instantly. I know it has meaning and purpose, I am on a spiritual mission to discover what that is.
As we drove in the city for the first time, and this is Manhattan in the mid seventies I was not taken by the wonderful skyscrapers my family was raving on about.
No I caught my first glimpse of a major housing project in complete decay. I can still remember the sun hitting it,, It was so hot, and the kids my age around 12 or younger with a complete look of detachment and loss in there eye, they looked dead, and the smell and the enormity of it.
The thought that came with that was "God can't be here, he would never allow people to live like this,". This started a belief pattern I now recognize. That God only cares about certain people. I see now that is a false feeling, but I work on it everyday.
I'm not sure but I think I misinterpreted the whole experience
I believe God put that great of an impact on me because he was showing me my divine calling, I have yet to identify exactly what his will is for me is But I know it is in the reliving of suffering in my fellow man.
3. My mom and dad's decent into alcoholism. This was ongoing from the time of my earliest memories until today. My dad was weakened terrible by the bottle as one my mom, the fear, hurt, hatred and disgust I had for booze all those emotions being unprocessed stuffed down frozen man it made connect with God impossible, God had abandon me, he did not care, he could not be trusted I am on my own, " F*** IT"
That became the voice of my addiction right there. You know when i get to that point, use or don't use. I would always say "F*** IT" and use.
So I say all this to say that those 3 events created my core belief about God,
He wasn't funny
He wasn't there when you needed him most.
He didn't really care, not really
He hated me.
This was the old thinking, this was what kept me returning over and over to dope.
It was a lie, a lie I believed to be true I needed to it was only way I could survive in my addiction.
My knew belief is.
God is funny (for me)
God is there always (it's up to me to recognize him)
God cares (in fact that's all he does, God is Love)
God loves me.
With my new belief system I can finally begin to heal.
Have a great one.
