My husband recently gave me his opinion....well actually he suggested we may have to end the relationship if things didn't change. I guess he felt the need to get honest with me and share that he thought my mothering hasn't been all that great with the kids and that I lay around, do dishes and laundry and that's about it. I stopped taking the anti depressants i was on because I didn't think it was good idea to do both. So I made a choice. Pot. Then he went into the "you should go to school" speech, as he is concerned I'm not fulfilled as a stay at home mom.
Well duh.
Thing is.....the b****** is right.
I have no drive, no motivation and life seems pretty hopeless.
He also told me to leave HIS pot alone during the day.
Maybe that was some kind of tactic, not sure. I am easily guilted.
So....on one hand.... I appreciate his honesty as my husband/friend and on the other hand I'm thinking was i just emotionally abused????? maybe i should be on a different board???? He smokes even more than I do. So anyway after that conversation he turns around and offers to smoke one with me. Then he went out of town. Insane I know. I found myself having suicidal thoughts at one point last night. Like i am trapped and suffocating and no one understands my confusion and pain. I don't have anyone to talk to, I can't even reach him.
Today, I am stressed and feeling lack of confidence in my parenting skills, I'm feeling very distressed which has triggered me wanting to get high. but then if i get high, it doesn't go away. So I did crossword puzzles instead.Oh, and the dishes and laundry.
Thanks for listening to my pathetic story.
I know exactly how you are feeling but in a different situation. I always feel that i don't have anyone to talk to, even though i have a supportive boyfriend and great family. I don't really have any friends though that i can just sit down and talk at. That's why i went out on wednesday and bought a pretty little note book to write in. I have it under the coffee table and whenever i feel like a cone or am just feeling anxious i write down how i am feeling. usually by the end of writing it down, i don't feel that immediate need for a cone. its also helping me understand why i feel like smoking. I figured out that i'm fine all day without pot until my boyfriend gets home. he didn't like me smoking while he wasn't there also. so i have always associated him getting home to me getting high. we usually end up arguing not long after he gets home, when we don't have pot. i have figured out why this happens and have told my boyfriend, so we are mindful what we say to each other at that time. Also writing to anonymous people on this message board helps because you realise that you are not the only person in the world going through this. just write on the messageboard when you are feeling so down, there are so many people here to help us! hope you feel better,
chrissie.
chrissie.
Thank you so much for replying Chrissie. It is like a ritual isn't it? Getting high with your man. There have been times too where I have turned him down. Especially because he rolls such big gaggers and I get way too high, I don't like that, which says to me that this is more a bad habit than an addiction. But i also know some recovery, so I know this could be addict speak and I am rationalizing. Honestly, I can have one little puff and be gonzo for four hours. Everything i read says after awhile a person needs more and more to get high. I don't think that's true for me. Am i the only one? Excuse my rambling, I am a mess.
My boyfriend and I smoke together ALL THE TIME. I don't smoke without him actually. It's interesting to hear how you're both dealing with quitting while having a partner who isn't stopping because that's what I'm going to be dealing with.
Your comment about it being a habit versus an addiction has got me thinking. I smoke quite a bit in the evenings, my consumption has increased a lot over this last year actually. How would someone know if it's a habit and not an addiction?
Your comment about it being a habit versus an addiction has got me thinking. I smoke quite a bit in the evenings, my consumption has increased a lot over this last year actually. How would someone know if it's a habit and not an addiction?
The advice I received from this message board was to go to the marijuana anonymous board and answer the questionaire. I'll try to find it again and post it here. I've been thinking of re-doing the questionaire myself, now that I've reduced my usage significantly.
i have just had such a bad time over the last couple of hours.i have been hysterical, and my boyfriend said it would pass and it has. but only from reading these messages. i looked up that marijuana anonymous questionnaire, but i already knew that i felt all those things asked by the questions. they have a chatroom i thought i could join and even have meetings but its american and i'm aussie and i'd like an aussie version. i'm also not into all that god will help me stuff the 12 steps go on about. i hope you found it helpful though. i'm always so negative. my hand is so sore from punching a wall earlier and i can't sleep even though its 4am. thanks for the MA link though. it did help me remember that i am giving up for lots of reasons. i nearly gave in tonight, my boyfriend suggested getting some pot as i shouldn't be going cold turkey but i think gradually cutting down only prolongs the agony. do you agree? or if i am hysterical, punching walls and crying for over three hours maybe its healthier for me to have that cone. thanks for listening.
chrissie.
chrissie.
The 12 step thing really can be daunting. I'm not thrilled with the religious aspect. I have found the worst addicts I've seen in my life have HUGE religious background and they are so screwed up about it. So I'm leary, just my experience. But having a group to learn, yap and listen to is helpful for me. I was in group therapy at the hospital 5 years ago and it helped me get a grip on my husbands affair. I guess I'm just trying to find some face to face conversation about this pot issue, besides talking with my husband, whom at this point has no desire to quit. I'm not a big fan of the internet, since there was issues of porn addiction in our house through this medium.
When my hubby gets home, I'm going to ask him to go with me to the meeting I found tomorrow night, from what I understand, not all meetings are God-like. LOL
He'll probably say no. But i have a strategy. If i say things like, "I value your input." or "Your opinions mean alot to me." it might make it more appealing. My therapist called it "Gentle start-ups" Since pot does affect our marriage, it makes sense for him to present.
I will go without him though and try not to fall in love with somebody who actually wants recovery.LOL (I have to watch it, I'm vulnerable)
I have a bruises on my arm from my outburst last night, I was slammed into the wall by my daughter, when I grabbed her purse to stop her as she was running out the door. I have a horrible headache today but I haven't smoked anything except a roach on wednesday.
I have never heard the term "cone", can you explain?
I'm sorry you're struggling, it can be tormenting, this confusion and constant questioning of our sanity, eh?
Can you guess where I'm from? LOL
When my hubby gets home, I'm going to ask him to go with me to the meeting I found tomorrow night, from what I understand, not all meetings are God-like. LOL
He'll probably say no. But i have a strategy. If i say things like, "I value your input." or "Your opinions mean alot to me." it might make it more appealing. My therapist called it "Gentle start-ups" Since pot does affect our marriage, it makes sense for him to present.
I will go without him though and try not to fall in love with somebody who actually wants recovery.LOL (I have to watch it, I'm vulnerable)
I have a bruises on my arm from my outburst last night, I was slammed into the wall by my daughter, when I grabbed her purse to stop her as she was running out the door. I have a horrible headache today but I haven't smoked anything except a roach on wednesday.
I have never heard the term "cone", can you explain?
I'm sorry you're struggling, it can be tormenting, this confusion and constant questioning of our sanity, eh?
Can you guess where I'm from? LOL
A cone is a bong,water pipe. you pack a cone and smoke it through a bong. its worse than smoking joints because its easier ie. it only takes two secs to pack and smoke a cone. whereas with joints you have to roll them and that takes time and motivation that pot drains from you so you smoke less. its cheaper than joints and you end up more stoned.
on a different wavelength, your husband really sounds like he is not helping you! if anything, it sounds as though he is the cause of your unhappiness sending you in a downward spiral of needing drugs. i hate to say this, i hope i don't offend, but have you thought about leaving him in order to stabilise your own life? it sounds as though your children are old enough to cope with that and if anything are affected by your present relationship. you don't have to respond, but i was just curious.
on a different wavelength, your husband really sounds like he is not helping you! if anything, it sounds as though he is the cause of your unhappiness sending you in a downward spiral of needing drugs. i hate to say this, i hope i don't offend, but have you thought about leaving him in order to stabilise your own life? it sounds as though your children are old enough to cope with that and if anything are affected by your present relationship. you don't have to respond, but i was just curious.
I think about leaving him.
And then I think about what a freakin nightmare it would be to actually do it.
And then I think about what a freakin nightmare it would be to actually do it.
of course, it is different for all of us, but you might try a technique that worked for me. I created a "sacred time" when I was prohibited to smoke. I chose 9am-noon. But you should find what works best for you. I chose this because it let me do a wake up hit if I felt I needed to, or I could try to get throught the morning straight. After a while I created "grace period" of 15 min so I didn't obsess about the starting time. Now the 12 steppers will say that I'm full of it. I admit that I didn't make it till noon on many occasions, but eventually it got easier and easier to get through it. At some point I looked up one time and it was 1pm. What had happened was, since I couln't smoke, I found other things to occupy my mind, and eventually those interests superseded the interest in getting high. Havent had a puff for over 60 days now. The moral of the story is that the joy is missing cause you haven't found what makes you joyful. And the only way to find it is to stop being stoned all the time. Quitting "cold turkey" never worked for me because it was too easy to run back to it when I was bored, lonely or feeling down. Then I was right back where I started. This will sound stupid to some but maybe you just need to find another hobby. Or maybe I'm just not an addict.
What you are advocating is quiting by controlled using. Either you are not an addict, or you are steeped in denial. That is ridiculously bad advice to offer to people with addiction problems. So, in fullillment of your own prophesy, yes, you are so very full of "it."
August
August
Congratulations on your clean time. That's awesome! I'll write more tomorrow.
August just a question and not intended to make you defensive. I have read many of your post, many GREAT post. Whether we agree or disagree with what someone is doing or not doing it is their choice to do it..???.. It would at this point seem to me that your opinion would be more helpful, stating how you did things, do things, etc, rather than calling someone, ONLY 60 days clean ridiculous and full of it. Maybe it was a bad day for you, but I know you have much better advice than slamming someone, who may or may not find her own way, if this does or doesnt work, I doubt your post is what is going to turn her around. Everyone on here offers different perspectives, if we are niave enough to try whatever it might be, or smart enough, then so be it. I know you are very admired on these boards and have inspiration to offer, where was it?
AugustWest knows nothing else but his life and his way. If it did not work for him it will not work for any one. He is so bitter about his own addictions, his past, his lonliness and inability to think beyond the 12 step program that 'saved' him that he finds it esssential to be a drag to other people who are trying other ways. You could have years clean and he'd still drag you down unless you do AA/NA. Once in awhile he says good things that help people but he is deluded by the steps. Mostly he is so absorbed in his 'own way' that the rest makes no sense.
Don't listen to him. Listen to what works for you.
He is a sober yet lonely man who found a program that works for him and will probably feel less lonely if he knew that the rest of the world walked his path.
Good luck on your 60 days. My 2cents. Do what is good for you. Whatever works!!!
Don't listen to him. Listen to what works for you.
He is a sober yet lonely man who found a program that works for him and will probably feel less lonely if he knew that the rest of the world walked his path.
Good luck on your 60 days. My 2cents. Do what is good for you. Whatever works!!!
Well, I only answered yes to one of the questions on the marajuana test. I'm shocked! I expected to have to answer yes to all of them. Of course I know that means I think I have a problem, and if I think that no test can change it. I'm really looking forward to growing up and moving on with my life.
Perhaps you are both correct. I am the one who urged the creation of this forum and I posted copiously on it for several months. I gave a lot of my time to try to help others, but I guess this is but a symtom of my self centeredness.
I finally gave up in frustration after all of those months because pot heads appear to be incapable of accepting the fact that they are just as much addicts as people who frequent crack houses and shooting galleries. I have no desire to hang out with a bunch of stoners who think they can think their way out of the wet paper bags of their addictions.
I have to read hundreds of posts of people who relapsed over and over again and could not "get it" that their way did not work. Any suggestion, however, that they relinquish control of the process is generally met with extreme resistance. Thus, they can't let go, and they cannot cope without dope.
I try to be restrained in my comments, but there are a few approaches that are flawed to the point that my silence would be tantamount to enabling the addictive behavior that is rampant on this board:
The first is "I'll quit tomorrow." Nonsense. This is just a way of rationlizing using today.
The second one, unheard of prior to the earlier post, is, I'll quit by tapering down and controlling my using, and call it something really cool and groovy. Sorry, there are a lot of people out there who might read this and conclude that it is something other than drivel. I tried the controlled using countless times, and so have the vast majority of addicts that have passed thorugh this forum. Somehow, we have the word of a single individual that this approach works? Perhaps in some parallel universe, but not here.
60 days does not impress me. I made it to that point many times. Or did I? Seems like I was continually saying well I am clean but I can do it just this once and it really does not count. The denial around pot is that strong.
If you don't like what I post, don't read it. As for what a bitter life I lead, I will only offer that every waking minute is "sacred time" for me. I do not have to allocate "sacred time," because I live it. I have no compulsion to use, and contrary to the opinion of our anonymous poster, who does not know me, what I am doing is working rather well for me. I have my brain back, and a pretty darned good life.
I dare any of you to come back and wave this in my face you have been clean for a year. I will humbly and delightfully eat crow. If pissing some of you off gets you mad enough to get clean, then my work here is done. If pissing some of you off is an excuse to use, well you didn't really have a very good foundation then, now did you?
Denial is not a river in Egypt,
August
I finally gave up in frustration after all of those months because pot heads appear to be incapable of accepting the fact that they are just as much addicts as people who frequent crack houses and shooting galleries. I have no desire to hang out with a bunch of stoners who think they can think their way out of the wet paper bags of their addictions.
I have to read hundreds of posts of people who relapsed over and over again and could not "get it" that their way did not work. Any suggestion, however, that they relinquish control of the process is generally met with extreme resistance. Thus, they can't let go, and they cannot cope without dope.
I try to be restrained in my comments, but there are a few approaches that are flawed to the point that my silence would be tantamount to enabling the addictive behavior that is rampant on this board:
The first is "I'll quit tomorrow." Nonsense. This is just a way of rationlizing using today.
The second one, unheard of prior to the earlier post, is, I'll quit by tapering down and controlling my using, and call it something really cool and groovy. Sorry, there are a lot of people out there who might read this and conclude that it is something other than drivel. I tried the controlled using countless times, and so have the vast majority of addicts that have passed thorugh this forum. Somehow, we have the word of a single individual that this approach works? Perhaps in some parallel universe, but not here.
60 days does not impress me. I made it to that point many times. Or did I? Seems like I was continually saying well I am clean but I can do it just this once and it really does not count. The denial around pot is that strong.
If you don't like what I post, don't read it. As for what a bitter life I lead, I will only offer that every waking minute is "sacred time" for me. I do not have to allocate "sacred time," because I live it. I have no compulsion to use, and contrary to the opinion of our anonymous poster, who does not know me, what I am doing is working rather well for me. I have my brain back, and a pretty darned good life.
I dare any of you to come back and wave this in my face you have been clean for a year. I will humbly and delightfully eat crow. If pissing some of you off gets you mad enough to get clean, then my work here is done. If pissing some of you off is an excuse to use, well you didn't really have a very good foundation then, now did you?
Denial is not a river in Egypt,
August
august, in no way was i trying to piss you off, i think i got the brunt of your post due to 2cents. i guess a bigger question i have is it seems the pain pill board tapers all the time, why is it so different for pot. i agree, i wont read your post or respond anymore if i dont like them, maybe that is also good advice for you. i appreciate your acknowledgment of your own flaws as well. i have no right to judge you or anyone else on this board and rarely get much positive from you even when i was celebrating 30 or 60 days clean you were quick to remind me, how easy it would be to screw it all up. i definately know that pot is addictive, i have spent the past few years at the end of a pipe until my lungs are full of scar tissue and my life has become stagnant. i am only clean for 5 mo. and struggle daily, and no i dont 12 step and probably wont, but i use cognitive beh. approaches and that has worked 5 mo. if i fall, i fall and that is my life, i like to hear your points of view, and am not trying to be groovy. i just dont get the agitation, and the quick put downs, arent we all on our own paths? I guess I am stupid. I will say it so you dont have to.
JAMV, I have been clean and sober a long time, but as you can see, I still have that temper that flares quickly. Funny, when I was an active addict, I was incapable of expressing anger or frustration in a direct, upfront manner. In the Program, we learn to do this, though it should always be done in a non-judgmental way.
I must stand by my sentiments, though I award myself a D- in my manner of expressing them. Please accept my deepest apologies for the harshness of my words. I have a good idea of the identity of $.02 and was mostly speaking to her. Playing nice-nice did not work with her.
To answer your question, though, I think the reason that tapering is more accepted on the PP board is that opiates have very intense physical withdrawals. Now I will be the first to tell you that the time right after I quit smoking was a living hell for me, but this had more to do with anxiety, restlessness, nightmares, temper flare ups, mood swings, etc, ad nauseum than it did with physical withdrawals.
In contrast, I worked the Steps all through my cancer treatments and then had to withdraw from the physical dependence on extraordinarily high levels of opiates. The opiate levels were so high that my health was at risk from CT withdrawals, but more to the point, like anyone who is dependent on that stuff, the withdrawals scared the holy crud out of me. I conferred with my oncologist, and despite the fact that she recommended that I wait, she helped me develop a taper schedule. What followed was 6 weeks of consistent physical withdrawal--bad on some days, agonizing on the rest.
As horrible as it was, it was not as bad as quitting pot because I had 15 years of coping mechanisms in place to help me put it in perspective. Sure, there were mood swings in the extreme: I am talking collapsing in helpless panic--but a lot of that was repressed fear of the cancer once I realize I had it beat. All the fear that I had to conceal from others suddenly rushed forth. As overwhelming as it was, there was a part of me that had the Program to keep it in perspective--I knew it was temporary.
If you hang on the PP board long enough, and carefully follow who has the most clean time, you will find that I am the exception to the rule. Most taperers never jump off and get clean. A surprising number of Sub and Meth users also relapse. Those who do get clean underestimate the psychic part of the process and often relapse within three months. Most of those with serious clean time got that way by either going CT or tapering very, very fast. The longer the taper schedule, the higher the likelihood of relapse. In fact, we discussed this just the other day on a thread.
While no rule is iron-clad, my taper was probably successful due to the many years of discipline and commitment I had in living clean and sober. Addicts tend to want to do things their way, and they are adverse to discomfort. My time in the program had taught me not to fall into these traps.
Over there, most of my efforts are geared toward trying to convince people that there is more to addiction than withdrawal, so I speak a lot about the spiritual solution. They know they are addicts but they often do not appreciate the emotional components of addiction because they are so focused on avoiding the discomfort of withdrawals.
Over here, the issue is different. Unlike opiate addicts, most long term pot smokers have acclimated in a climate where pot is socially acceptable, and since you do not see pot smokers in shooting galleries, crack houses, or passed out in the street, they really question whether they are addicts at all. Again, much of it revolves around how expansively one defines the term. For me, addiction is 90% emotional--a state of mind-- and only 10% physical.
Thus, after soft peddling the issues for several months on this board, I reached two decisions. First, people such as yourself are much better qualified to offer support than am I. I am way too far away from my last toke (even though I dreamed of doing bong hits just last night). So I leave it to you and the others to offer that front line of support to the newcomers. You are much more compassionate and understanding, whereas I tend to just want to grab them by the neck ala Homer Simpson and shake some sense into them. LOL, we know that approach would not work.
The second decision is that when I post, I tend to far more upfront in terms of attacking the denial of addiction, and a lot more upfront about meetings and the Program as a solution. This is largely because subtler approaches tend to feed the average pothead's denial that s/he is even an addict to begin with. For Hippynerd, he probably struck a chord in that I have been where he is at so many times, and failed miserably. We always get most upset by those things closest to home. I used to get up and smoke first thing in the morning and it hacks me off that I did not put my undergraduate years to better use.
JAMV, I hope this helps to clear the air. I hope that you will continue to participate over here, and to be a source of light to the newcomers. You are also welcome over on the PP forum. I really do love KY, I swear it. I probably revel more in my redneckedness than I did when I was there. When in KY, I wanted to make sure that people understood that I had a worldly quality. Now that I live in the city, I would rather be perceived as a slow talker, so long as I think faster than my opponents. One must always dress like a rube when attending a high stakes poker game. It is so much easier to shear the flock that way.
Take care; please do not hesitate to speak your mind when I get out line. I respect your opinion. Oh, and 60 days really does impress me. That statement in the earlier post was a "bluff," to put it politely.
All the best,
August
I must stand by my sentiments, though I award myself a D- in my manner of expressing them. Please accept my deepest apologies for the harshness of my words. I have a good idea of the identity of $.02 and was mostly speaking to her. Playing nice-nice did not work with her.
To answer your question, though, I think the reason that tapering is more accepted on the PP board is that opiates have very intense physical withdrawals. Now I will be the first to tell you that the time right after I quit smoking was a living hell for me, but this had more to do with anxiety, restlessness, nightmares, temper flare ups, mood swings, etc, ad nauseum than it did with physical withdrawals.
In contrast, I worked the Steps all through my cancer treatments and then had to withdraw from the physical dependence on extraordinarily high levels of opiates. The opiate levels were so high that my health was at risk from CT withdrawals, but more to the point, like anyone who is dependent on that stuff, the withdrawals scared the holy crud out of me. I conferred with my oncologist, and despite the fact that she recommended that I wait, she helped me develop a taper schedule. What followed was 6 weeks of consistent physical withdrawal--bad on some days, agonizing on the rest.
As horrible as it was, it was not as bad as quitting pot because I had 15 years of coping mechanisms in place to help me put it in perspective. Sure, there were mood swings in the extreme: I am talking collapsing in helpless panic--but a lot of that was repressed fear of the cancer once I realize I had it beat. All the fear that I had to conceal from others suddenly rushed forth. As overwhelming as it was, there was a part of me that had the Program to keep it in perspective--I knew it was temporary.
If you hang on the PP board long enough, and carefully follow who has the most clean time, you will find that I am the exception to the rule. Most taperers never jump off and get clean. A surprising number of Sub and Meth users also relapse. Those who do get clean underestimate the psychic part of the process and often relapse within three months. Most of those with serious clean time got that way by either going CT or tapering very, very fast. The longer the taper schedule, the higher the likelihood of relapse. In fact, we discussed this just the other day on a thread.
While no rule is iron-clad, my taper was probably successful due to the many years of discipline and commitment I had in living clean and sober. Addicts tend to want to do things their way, and they are adverse to discomfort. My time in the program had taught me not to fall into these traps.
Over there, most of my efforts are geared toward trying to convince people that there is more to addiction than withdrawal, so I speak a lot about the spiritual solution. They know they are addicts but they often do not appreciate the emotional components of addiction because they are so focused on avoiding the discomfort of withdrawals.
Over here, the issue is different. Unlike opiate addicts, most long term pot smokers have acclimated in a climate where pot is socially acceptable, and since you do not see pot smokers in shooting galleries, crack houses, or passed out in the street, they really question whether they are addicts at all. Again, much of it revolves around how expansively one defines the term. For me, addiction is 90% emotional--a state of mind-- and only 10% physical.
Thus, after soft peddling the issues for several months on this board, I reached two decisions. First, people such as yourself are much better qualified to offer support than am I. I am way too far away from my last toke (even though I dreamed of doing bong hits just last night). So I leave it to you and the others to offer that front line of support to the newcomers. You are much more compassionate and understanding, whereas I tend to just want to grab them by the neck ala Homer Simpson and shake some sense into them. LOL, we know that approach would not work.
The second decision is that when I post, I tend to far more upfront in terms of attacking the denial of addiction, and a lot more upfront about meetings and the Program as a solution. This is largely because subtler approaches tend to feed the average pothead's denial that s/he is even an addict to begin with. For Hippynerd, he probably struck a chord in that I have been where he is at so many times, and failed miserably. We always get most upset by those things closest to home. I used to get up and smoke first thing in the morning and it hacks me off that I did not put my undergraduate years to better use.
JAMV, I hope this helps to clear the air. I hope that you will continue to participate over here, and to be a source of light to the newcomers. You are also welcome over on the PP forum. I really do love KY, I swear it. I probably revel more in my redneckedness than I did when I was there. When in KY, I wanted to make sure that people understood that I had a worldly quality. Now that I live in the city, I would rather be perceived as a slow talker, so long as I think faster than my opponents. One must always dress like a rube when attending a high stakes poker game. It is so much easier to shear the flock that way.
Take care; please do not hesitate to speak your mind when I get out line. I respect your opinion. Oh, and 60 days really does impress me. That statement in the earlier post was a "bluff," to put it politely.
All the best,
August
THANKS
