can someone please tell me if you can stop taking herion as soon as your priscribed subutex
my son has been taking subutex for a while now hes recently relapsed and started using again,his subutex was upped to 8mg but im sure hes still using is it safe to just stop with the herion without going into withdrawl.
I,m worried sick about him, hes lost so much wieght and looks so poorly. is there anything i can do to help?
Any suggestions would be great.
M
W;MUM...Yeah u need 2 stop heroin when u go on subs,u cant take both together,well u can,but if u do u go in2 a full blown withdrawals.In my opinion he's taking 1 or the other,and its more than likely he's taking heroin..and yes 99% of the time it's safe to do a rattle with out any meds..ive done it many of time.
Thanks Paul
I know he is taking his subutex because i supervise this daily but he has been taking herion on top of this. i,m sorry to ask what must seem like a stupid question but what will happen if he suddenly stops using herion?
His health is suffering badly, but obviosly he doesnt see it.
I,m so worried for him.
I know he is taking his subutex because i supervise this daily but he has been taking herion on top of this. i,m sorry to ask what must seem like a stupid question but what will happen if he suddenly stops using herion?
His health is suffering badly, but obviosly he doesnt see it.
I,m so worried for him.
When i started on sub's i felt a little ill for 2 days,then after that i started to feel alot better.,the subs should stop him from feeling bad,if he carry's on taking heroin he will only get worse,hows he doing today ?...when u supervise him make sure u see those pills disolve under his tounge.
Worried Mom...From what I know when xabf was on sub program...subutex does not have the ingredient that will react with heroin...suboxone does...If he goes on suboxone and then takes heroin he will get VERY sick...Usually the doctor puts a patient on subutex for about a week to make sure the heroin/opiates are out of the system and then prescribes suboxone...Gina
reglow,belive me when your on subutex and take gear u rattle,thats why i always went in the chemist with chewing gum in the roof of my mouth,so i cud push them subs in2 it.
Hi Paul
Yes he definatly takes the subs. Hes also been using herion for the last month or so.Told him this morning it has to stop.Did he listen? who knows.
He went out this morning probably wont see him till late tonite.
Its plain to me that hes not ready to quit the herion but he wont admit it to himself.I do try to be supportive but but when you get nothing back its hopeless.
Best wishes to you.
Yes he definatly takes the subs. Hes also been using herion for the last month or so.Told him this morning it has to stop.Did he listen? who knows.
He went out this morning probably wont see him till late tonite.
Its plain to me that hes not ready to quit the herion but he wont admit it to himself.I do try to be supportive but but when you get nothing back its hopeless.
Best wishes to you.
Well all respect to you for being there for him.Thats how my mam is with me.At least he knows your there for him when he's ready for the help.Hope for your sake its sooner rather than later,but us addicts can be very selfish when it comes to our drug of choice.All the best and hope things turn out good for you...love paul.
Newton's first law of motion states that ; For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action. Yeah, I know, what's this got to do with you and your relationship with your son. Well, I think that it also applies to human's, and the direction that they take. I.E. If you try and push him into not taking skag, he'll probably..... So, it's my opinion, that the best course of action for you to take, is to wait, and give him the space to come to the dicision, and to take the necessary action, that will take him to a skag free life!!
I think that you must be a fantastic person, and mother, to take such a supportive and active role in the, hopefully, re-habilitation of your son, but don't tell him that. For the above reason!!!!! I salute you. :-) And wish you ALL the best. I hope that I haven't been stating the bleeding obvious. FRED
I think that you must be a fantastic person, and mother, to take such a supportive and active role in the, hopefully, re-habilitation of your son, but don't tell him that. For the above reason!!!!! I salute you. :-) And wish you ALL the best. I hope that I haven't been stating the bleeding obvious. FRED
Hello Fred
I do relize that i have to take a step back from this situation but i,ve done it so many times now.Each time losing a little more strengh (and patients)Its been 3 years since herion took over our lives with my sons addiction.There were times when i thought no more! But then love rears its ugly head and i,m back to square one.
My health has suffered my husbands health has suffered. I,m now wondering how much more we can take, my head is telling me to let go but my heart is saying hang in there,things will get better.
still hoping
M
I do relize that i have to take a step back from this situation but i,ve done it so many times now.Each time losing a little more strengh (and patients)Its been 3 years since herion took over our lives with my sons addiction.There were times when i thought no more! But then love rears its ugly head and i,m back to square one.
My health has suffered my husbands health has suffered. I,m now wondering how much more we can take, my head is telling me to let go but my heart is saying hang in there,things will get better.
still hoping
M
Hi, sorry to hear that you and your son are having such a difficult time. I used to be on subutex, but I'm totally cleanamundo now. I did my share of mucking about with subs and heroin. Now, it's quite a feat to take subs and heroin at the same time. The subs knocks the heroin off the opiate receptors and sends you into instant withdrawals. However, if you wait until you are starting to withdraw from heroin (the time varies from person to person, but I found that if I'd done heroin before bed, I'd wake up feeling pretty cacky, and taking my subutex would make me feel better) it takes away the withdrawals. But, just to make you aware, subutex is not a complete blocker at doses of 12mgs or less. That means that if you do heroin after taking subs, you will feel some effect from the heroin. I know it's hard to get your head round, but basically, if you take subs after taking heroin but before you are in withdrawals, the subs will make you withdraw. If you take heroin after taking subs then you will have reduced effects from the heroin, or at doses higher than 12 mgs, supposedly no effect at all. The first time I did heroin after taking subs (and I left it a good 36hrs after my last 16mg dose) I was sick as a dog, puking and totally annoyed that I'd wasted my money on heroin that I never felt. However, a true addict, I persevered, and found that eventually the sickness stopped happening, and the more often I used heroin, the less time I would have to leave it after taking my subs, and the more I would feel it. Strange but true.
And to the person who thought that subutex doesn't clash with heroin, the difference between subutex and suboxone is that suboxone contains naloxone. The reason they put naloxone in it is to stop you dissolving it and injecting it. The naloxone has no effect when taken orally, or so I'm lead to believe. I did try injecting subutex, but it wasn't a great success!
Anyway, to worried mum again. There really isn't much you can do to force your son to stop taking heroin. All I can suggest is to make sure that you are not a buffer between him and the consequences of his actions. If he abuses your trust, then you have to be tough. These are the rules of the world, and you certainly won't do him any favours by protecting him. You can't protect somebody from themselves, they have to learn to do that for themselves, and nothing teaches you faster or more effectively than pain, and the more painful life gets, the more likely you are to do something about it. A kid only has to burn themselves on a hot stove once before they decide not to touch it again. Telling them it's hot doesn't always get the message through. So, tell your son that your door and your heart are always open to him, as long as he stays off the drugs, and that he needs to earn your trust again, so that if you ask him to submit to a random drugs test, he shouldn't feel offended, at least until he's proven himself a bit. But, if he isn't able to get his act together (and that's his choice - you have to accept it), your heart will still be open to him, but not your door.
It is entirely possible to get clean without the help from your family. Don't feel like you are handing him a death sentence by taking this stance. I did it. I did it all on my own (well, apart from the help of the drugs team, who were brilliant). I'm so glad I didn't put my folks through hell with my addiction. We live on different continents most of the time, so I was well able to keep it hidden. And now I'm clean, we have a very good relationship.
kindest regards
Diff x
And to the person who thought that subutex doesn't clash with heroin, the difference between subutex and suboxone is that suboxone contains naloxone. The reason they put naloxone in it is to stop you dissolving it and injecting it. The naloxone has no effect when taken orally, or so I'm lead to believe. I did try injecting subutex, but it wasn't a great success!
Anyway, to worried mum again. There really isn't much you can do to force your son to stop taking heroin. All I can suggest is to make sure that you are not a buffer between him and the consequences of his actions. If he abuses your trust, then you have to be tough. These are the rules of the world, and you certainly won't do him any favours by protecting him. You can't protect somebody from themselves, they have to learn to do that for themselves, and nothing teaches you faster or more effectively than pain, and the more painful life gets, the more likely you are to do something about it. A kid only has to burn themselves on a hot stove once before they decide not to touch it again. Telling them it's hot doesn't always get the message through. So, tell your son that your door and your heart are always open to him, as long as he stays off the drugs, and that he needs to earn your trust again, so that if you ask him to submit to a random drugs test, he shouldn't feel offended, at least until he's proven himself a bit. But, if he isn't able to get his act together (and that's his choice - you have to accept it), your heart will still be open to him, but not your door.
It is entirely possible to get clean without the help from your family. Don't feel like you are handing him a death sentence by taking this stance. I did it. I did it all on my own (well, apart from the help of the drugs team, who were brilliant). I'm so glad I didn't put my folks through hell with my addiction. We live on different continents most of the time, so I was well able to keep it hidden. And now I'm clean, we have a very good relationship.
kindest regards
Diff x
hi
first i was on quite a low dose of subutex like your son to begin with and i was also taking heroin as well as the sub and i didnt cluck once.
it wasnt untill i got to alot higher dose that i clucked with heroin in my system.
i hope things sort of soon for your son, has anyone talked about the fact he may be on too lower dose of subs ??
i didnt get along with the subs in the end and am now on a methadone programme i started on 70ml and am now down to 27ml i cant believe how much better the methadone has wokred more than the subs.
you sound like a great mum to be soo supportive, i was also lucky to have a great mum
first i was on quite a low dose of subutex like your son to begin with and i was also taking heroin as well as the sub and i didnt cluck once.
it wasnt untill i got to alot higher dose that i clucked with heroin in my system.
i hope things sort of soon for your son, has anyone talked about the fact he may be on too lower dose of subs ??
i didnt get along with the subs in the end and am now on a methadone programme i started on 70ml and am now down to 27ml i cant believe how much better the methadone has wokred more than the subs.
you sound like a great mum to be soo supportive, i was also lucky to have a great mum
One of the biggest stimuli for an adictive behavior is environmental, in that, the things he sees around him every day can/will trigger the behavior.
I get the feeling that he is living with you, as you are able to supervise his sub.
I had to move to another city to stop. I had a very bad problem with needles, crack and herion ( in that order. ) And it wasn't until my brother killed himself with alcohol and I moved 400 miles that I totally stopped.
I agree with the earlier post, sayin that you can't protect him from himself. we all keep doing something until we get it/ learn the lesson. If he abuses your trust and it is making you and your husband physically sick you have to let him go. He has to work out for himself how he got to this point and why he is doing this to himself.
After three years clean, I took my first hit again 9 months ago, and now I'm at the point where I'm doing it once a week. What I think about this, is that it is a consequence of the way I percieve what happens to me in my life. It's hard enough for me to work out why I am doing this to myself let alone some one else. And I think that if I had the guilt of letting someone else down as well as myself that it would make it even harder for me to work it out and stop doing this. We addicts like to have reasons/excuses why we are doing it, so we have to realise we are responsible for own actions before we do something about it. So in the peverse little space that occupise his head at the moment he MAY even be, partly, blaming you for him taking Herion.
It's obvious that you love him dearly and would do anything for him. But do you want to go down with him when it will serve no purpose. And do you think that in his heart of hearts that he would want you too as well ? One of my excuses is that my mother wasn't there enough, and maybe she shouldn't have work so long. But, surely I should have learned to deal with that by now. She was only doing the best she could for me at that time.
I really feel for you, but you must look after yourself, otherwise you won't be able to help him when/ if he decides to DO something about it. !!!
love fred.
I get the feeling that he is living with you, as you are able to supervise his sub.
I had to move to another city to stop. I had a very bad problem with needles, crack and herion ( in that order. ) And it wasn't until my brother killed himself with alcohol and I moved 400 miles that I totally stopped.
I agree with the earlier post, sayin that you can't protect him from himself. we all keep doing something until we get it/ learn the lesson. If he abuses your trust and it is making you and your husband physically sick you have to let him go. He has to work out for himself how he got to this point and why he is doing this to himself.
After three years clean, I took my first hit again 9 months ago, and now I'm at the point where I'm doing it once a week. What I think about this, is that it is a consequence of the way I percieve what happens to me in my life. It's hard enough for me to work out why I am doing this to myself let alone some one else. And I think that if I had the guilt of letting someone else down as well as myself that it would make it even harder for me to work it out and stop doing this. We addicts like to have reasons/excuses why we are doing it, so we have to realise we are responsible for own actions before we do something about it. So in the peverse little space that occupise his head at the moment he MAY even be, partly, blaming you for him taking Herion.
It's obvious that you love him dearly and would do anything for him. But do you want to go down with him when it will serve no purpose. And do you think that in his heart of hearts that he would want you too as well ? One of my excuses is that my mother wasn't there enough, and maybe she shouldn't have work so long. But, surely I should have learned to deal with that by now. She was only doing the best she could for me at that time.
I really feel for you, but you must look after yourself, otherwise you won't be able to help him when/ if he decides to DO something about it. !!!
love fred.
Hi everyone.
Thank you all so much for for your kind words and wisdom.
my son and me had a good talk yesterday. we came to a point where he has agreed if he continues to use herion he has to find somewhere else to live.
He sees his doc on friday so maybe she will up his dose of subutex. This might make things a little easier for him. What do you think?
Thanks everyone
M
Thank you all so much for for your kind words and wisdom.
my son and me had a good talk yesterday. we came to a point where he has agreed if he continues to use herion he has to find somewhere else to live.
He sees his doc on friday so maybe she will up his dose of subutex. This might make things a little easier for him. What do you think?
Thanks everyone
M
Hi M, glad you and your son were able to have an honest and open discussion. Well, that's how it sounded from here, but if it was me in his position I would have been staring at the floor, shuffling my feet, wanting to bolt out of the door as quickly as I could! But that's just me - LOL! It's good you got some ground rules sorted out. Having his subs upped might do him some good if his current dose isn't holding him for long enough.
M, people get there in their own time. There were many times when I was using that I professed to have a desire to get clean, in the same way as I had a desire to win the lottery. Yeah, that would be wonderful, but like it's ever gonna happen! And other times, away from the well meaning folks who wish to fix something that's broken, even when it don't want to be fixed, I would laugh with my friends and say that I loved my heroin and wanted to do it till the day I died, and the only reason all those well meaning folks got so worked up about it was either coz they didn't know how good it felt, or they had a pretty good idea, and were just jealous coz they weren't doing it! Anyway, neither of the poles were entirely true or entirely false. I did want to be clean, and I did love heroin. I did appreciate the help I was given, but I also cheated my drug tests, lied to my drug workers, avoided my probation officer, occassionally jumped bail. And I did my drug as selfishly and as thoughtlessly as any other junkie, and lived as recklessly as anybody who doesn't give a toss about anything any more.
I did heroin till I felt it had run it's course. Essentially, I did it till I got bored of it. I got bored of living behind closed curtains, I got bored of having my door kicked through, I got bored of living in fear most of the time, I got bored of being a huge disappointment to myself, I got bored of being ill, I got bored of being desperate. My drugs career was one hell of an experience - opened my naieve eyes right up, made me realise that I wasn't quite the person I thought I was. And I'm glad of that. I needed to find out who I was, I needed to sink to the bottom till I knew where the bottom was. And I have to say I enjoyed the recklessness, I enjoyed the wild abandon, I enjoyed not having to worry about anything except getting that drug. Nothing seems that awful when you have a needle full of instant joy stuck in your vein. All the $hit people normally lose sleep over just doesn't seem to register when you've got heroin.
When I was on the gear, there really wasn't anything anybody could have done to get me off it, until I wanted to, until I was prepared to change. And that didn't happen overnight. Even when I'd decided to stop using heroin, it took me another 9 months to get off subutex. And it took over 7 years of using, dealing, importing, living life on a knife edge to get to a point where I'd had enough of it. I'd done detoxes, I'd had methadone, I'd used subutex, but I had to get there on my own.
And to Fred, you're right about the environmental factors. I would go away somewhere, different continent normally, for a month or so, I would get clean, then come home and score on the way home from the airport. Going away to get clean didn't work out long term for me. When I finally did kick it, and get it right, I knew that I had to stay in this town, where the streets had hot and cold running heroin, that I could pick up on any whim, and if I did it here, then I could do it anywhere. I pass my old using buddies every day on the street. Sometimes we wave, but not often any more. I've moved on. They've stood still. Life's all about adventures. I just moved on to the next one...
love
Diff x
M, people get there in their own time. There were many times when I was using that I professed to have a desire to get clean, in the same way as I had a desire to win the lottery. Yeah, that would be wonderful, but like it's ever gonna happen! And other times, away from the well meaning folks who wish to fix something that's broken, even when it don't want to be fixed, I would laugh with my friends and say that I loved my heroin and wanted to do it till the day I died, and the only reason all those well meaning folks got so worked up about it was either coz they didn't know how good it felt, or they had a pretty good idea, and were just jealous coz they weren't doing it! Anyway, neither of the poles were entirely true or entirely false. I did want to be clean, and I did love heroin. I did appreciate the help I was given, but I also cheated my drug tests, lied to my drug workers, avoided my probation officer, occassionally jumped bail. And I did my drug as selfishly and as thoughtlessly as any other junkie, and lived as recklessly as anybody who doesn't give a toss about anything any more.
I did heroin till I felt it had run it's course. Essentially, I did it till I got bored of it. I got bored of living behind closed curtains, I got bored of having my door kicked through, I got bored of living in fear most of the time, I got bored of being a huge disappointment to myself, I got bored of being ill, I got bored of being desperate. My drugs career was one hell of an experience - opened my naieve eyes right up, made me realise that I wasn't quite the person I thought I was. And I'm glad of that. I needed to find out who I was, I needed to sink to the bottom till I knew where the bottom was. And I have to say I enjoyed the recklessness, I enjoyed the wild abandon, I enjoyed not having to worry about anything except getting that drug. Nothing seems that awful when you have a needle full of instant joy stuck in your vein. All the $hit people normally lose sleep over just doesn't seem to register when you've got heroin.
When I was on the gear, there really wasn't anything anybody could have done to get me off it, until I wanted to, until I was prepared to change. And that didn't happen overnight. Even when I'd decided to stop using heroin, it took me another 9 months to get off subutex. And it took over 7 years of using, dealing, importing, living life on a knife edge to get to a point where I'd had enough of it. I'd done detoxes, I'd had methadone, I'd used subutex, but I had to get there on my own.
And to Fred, you're right about the environmental factors. I would go away somewhere, different continent normally, for a month or so, I would get clean, then come home and score on the way home from the airport. Going away to get clean didn't work out long term for me. When I finally did kick it, and get it right, I knew that I had to stay in this town, where the streets had hot and cold running heroin, that I could pick up on any whim, and if I did it here, then I could do it anywhere. I pass my old using buddies every day on the street. Sometimes we wave, but not often any more. I've moved on. They've stood still. Life's all about adventures. I just moved on to the next one...
love
Diff x
