So, what happens if you don't believe in God? And I know that in the steps they qualify by saying God as we understood him, but I don't know what I understand my higher power to be. It's not that I'm not a spiritual preson. I do believe in something greater than humans, greater than me, but I don't know if that's God. And I have never been able to personify God, and I certainly have never been able to pray to anything concrete. How do I turn my life over to something that I have been struggling all my life to figure out and don't even know what it is.
I know that some poeple say that your "higher power" is whatever you want it to be - it can be AA or NA, it can be religion, it can be the steps, it can be a number of things that aren't the usual conception of God, but I still can't stop going back to God as this omnipotent omniscient being who watches over us and takes care of us and we pray for forgiveness and love and power over things we have struggled with.
And I think that, even though the 12 steps say that it is God as we understood him, it's still God and it's still him and I just don't know what to do with that.
I know there are meetings and groups for athiests and agnostics, but I also don't feel like I fit into a category either. I just don't know where I stand. I don't know what I feel, but i also don't know what I don't want and will never believe, but I want to be able to really give myself to the 12 steps.
Any thoughts? I can see from many of your posts that a lot of you are very religious, or have a lot of faith, and believe in God in the religious sense. And I want to hear from you, but I also want to know if there are others out there where I am, or if I'm even making sense.
Thanks,
SP
Your post made perfect sense.
The first time I heard a guy share about his doorknob being a higher power, and he prayed to it, I laughed. I got what he meant; I didn't understand the concept either. At that point, God could have been a doorknob for all I understood.
Now that I am out of that questioning phase, I just understand God as something to big to understand, yet so simple. Keeping it simple, and just having some faith while going through the process takes patience. The answers don't come overnight.
When you begin to see little coincidences and the right things showing up from right action, you will understand.
To me, there is a force out there and if we get quiet and still, we can hear the whispers of it.
You don't have to understand for now, you just have to do the next right thing and be kind to yourself. Easy does it, as the saying goes.
Hope I helped with my ramble.
The first time I heard a guy share about his doorknob being a higher power, and he prayed to it, I laughed. I got what he meant; I didn't understand the concept either. At that point, God could have been a doorknob for all I understood.
Now that I am out of that questioning phase, I just understand God as something to big to understand, yet so simple. Keeping it simple, and just having some faith while going through the process takes patience. The answers don't come overnight.
When you begin to see little coincidences and the right things showing up from right action, you will understand.
To me, there is a force out there and if we get quiet and still, we can hear the whispers of it.
You don't have to understand for now, you just have to do the next right thing and be kind to yourself. Easy does it, as the saying goes.
Hope I helped with my ramble.
littlebeach,
that totally wasn't a ramble. it made perfect sense. when i read the big book or the 24 hours a day book, i try to substitute the word god for "spirituality" or "greater than myself" or "higher power" but that doesn't seem to work much either. Maybe I just need to stop thinking so hard about it and like you said, it will come in the little things.
It just makes it hard to focus on getting the most out of meetings, because sometimes I'm spending so much timet thinking about the meaning of God and what that is that I get so distracted. Because I feel like if I don't get this part then I can't move forward. I don't want it to hold me back, but I know it's important.... to find it.... so I can be at peace with that Part of things.
Thanks littlebeach (and speaking of rambling),
SP
that totally wasn't a ramble. it made perfect sense. when i read the big book or the 24 hours a day book, i try to substitute the word god for "spirituality" or "greater than myself" or "higher power" but that doesn't seem to work much either. Maybe I just need to stop thinking so hard about it and like you said, it will come in the little things.
It just makes it hard to focus on getting the most out of meetings, because sometimes I'm spending so much timet thinking about the meaning of God and what that is that I get so distracted. Because I feel like if I don't get this part then I can't move forward. I don't want it to hold me back, but I know it's important.... to find it.... so I can be at peace with that Part of things.
Thanks littlebeach (and speaking of rambling),
SP
SP,
This is from an old thread. I posted the link at the bottom. It's not an answer for your question, but maybe it can be helpful to you.
Non-Religious Non-Spiritual 12-Steps
1) We admit to ourselves and another person that by our our beliefs, and our ways of behaving and thinking, we have damaged our own bodies, minds, emotions and spirits. We thus begin to cultivate an increasing attitude of hope.
2) Striving to balance self-reliance with mutual support, we make a decision to take full responsibility for our recovery.
3) Discovering that thinking can follow behaviour, we write how we intend to change our daily actions to more healthy directions.
4) We make a decision to avoid whichever substances and situations have held us back in our personal growth and health.
5) We first write, and then share with another person, a searching, thorough and honest inventory of our character, describing our assets, but also facing our defects and shortcomings.
6) Though we might stumble, each day we renew our dedication to correct thinking and the best principles revealed by our higher thinking.
7) We make a list of all persons we have harmed, promptly and humbly making amends.
8) We make a daily commitment to abstain from harmful substances, and try to base our thinking on the principle of 'yes' rather than 'no'.
9) So we do not self-deceive, we commit ourselves to admit when we are wrong, to correct our errors and move on without wallowing in guilt, self-hatred or self-pity.
10) We try to take what we are learning to suffering addicts wherever they might be.
11) In an attitude of gratitude we honour those who cared for us and those who will come after us, by maintaining recovery and doing service work.
12) Accepting that healing and growth proceed in Nature's time, we regularly affirm that the past is gone and the future is grown from the seeds we sow today.
The Agnostic 12 Steps
1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol/drugs-that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe and to accept that we needed strengths beyond our awareness and resources to restore us to sanity.
3.Made a decision to entrust our will and our lives to the care of the collective wisdom and resources of those who have searched before us.
4.Made a searching and fearless inventory of ourselves.
5.Admitted to ourselves without reservation,and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6.Were ready to accept help in letting go of all our defects of character.
7.With humility and openess sought to eliminate our shortcomings.
8.Made a list of all persons we had jarmed,and became willing to make amends to them all.
9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible,except when to do so would injure or harm others.
10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong,promptly admitted it.
11.Sought through meditation to improve our spiritual awareness and our understanding of the AA(na) way of life and to discover the power to carry out that way of life.
12.Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps,we tried to carry this message to alcoholics/addicts,and to practice these principals in all our affairs.
http://addictionrecoveryguide.com/m...nostic+12+steps
Chapter 4 From the Big Book, We Agnostics
This is from an old thread. I posted the link at the bottom. It's not an answer for your question, but maybe it can be helpful to you.
Non-Religious Non-Spiritual 12-Steps
1) We admit to ourselves and another person that by our our beliefs, and our ways of behaving and thinking, we have damaged our own bodies, minds, emotions and spirits. We thus begin to cultivate an increasing attitude of hope.
2) Striving to balance self-reliance with mutual support, we make a decision to take full responsibility for our recovery.
3) Discovering that thinking can follow behaviour, we write how we intend to change our daily actions to more healthy directions.
4) We make a decision to avoid whichever substances and situations have held us back in our personal growth and health.
5) We first write, and then share with another person, a searching, thorough and honest inventory of our character, describing our assets, but also facing our defects and shortcomings.
6) Though we might stumble, each day we renew our dedication to correct thinking and the best principles revealed by our higher thinking.
7) We make a list of all persons we have harmed, promptly and humbly making amends.
8) We make a daily commitment to abstain from harmful substances, and try to base our thinking on the principle of 'yes' rather than 'no'.
9) So we do not self-deceive, we commit ourselves to admit when we are wrong, to correct our errors and move on without wallowing in guilt, self-hatred or self-pity.
10) We try to take what we are learning to suffering addicts wherever they might be.
11) In an attitude of gratitude we honour those who cared for us and those who will come after us, by maintaining recovery and doing service work.
12) Accepting that healing and growth proceed in Nature's time, we regularly affirm that the past is gone and the future is grown from the seeds we sow today.
The Agnostic 12 Steps
1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol/drugs-that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe and to accept that we needed strengths beyond our awareness and resources to restore us to sanity.
3.Made a decision to entrust our will and our lives to the care of the collective wisdom and resources of those who have searched before us.
4.Made a searching and fearless inventory of ourselves.
5.Admitted to ourselves without reservation,and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6.Were ready to accept help in letting go of all our defects of character.
7.With humility and openess sought to eliminate our shortcomings.
8.Made a list of all persons we had jarmed,and became willing to make amends to them all.
9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible,except when to do so would injure or harm others.
10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong,promptly admitted it.
11.Sought through meditation to improve our spiritual awareness and our understanding of the AA(na) way of life and to discover the power to carry out that way of life.
12.Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps,we tried to carry this message to alcoholics/addicts,and to practice these principals in all our affairs.
http://addictionrecoveryguide.com/m...nostic+12+steps
Chapter 4 From the Big Book, We Agnostics
Are their any support groups for non-religious people? I mean as large as AA? Just curious.
SP...perfect sense and good questions...
When I first got to AA/NA, I didn't believe in any God. God left me in the dust long ago...I chose to say HP. And that HP could be anything I needed it to be while getting and staying clean and sober. It was the door knob on some days but mainly it was my sponsor. Today, it is God. My God. Not anyone else rendition of Him, just how I know understand Him. I'm not a religious person by any standard but what I believe, works for me. We have to know that there is a power greater than ourselves, to not believe that is extreme arrogance. It helps us take the heat off of ourselves.
Cowgirl
When I first got to AA/NA, I didn't believe in any God. God left me in the dust long ago...I chose to say HP. And that HP could be anything I needed it to be while getting and staying clean and sober. It was the door knob on some days but mainly it was my sponsor. Today, it is God. My God. Not anyone else rendition of Him, just how I know understand Him. I'm not a religious person by any standard but what I believe, works for me. We have to know that there is a power greater than ourselves, to not believe that is extreme arrogance. It helps us take the heat off of ourselves.
Cowgirl
What does your sponsor say?
Oh my god (ha) guys, thank you so much.... everything you are saying makes perfect sense... so MUCH sense... I need to be patient (which I SUCK at) and let it come and keep searching without obsessing.... (easier said than done, but then again, so is everything).
And I don't have a sponsor yet. I'm still looking. :/
Thanks again,
SP
And I don't have a sponsor yet. I'm still looking. :/
Thanks again,
SP
A sponsor will help you tremendously...it was the changing point of everything for me when I found the right one. The first 2 didn't work out but I never gave up. I wanted this sobriety bad enough that I was willing to go to any length to get it. You will too.
Cowgirl
Cowgirl
cowgirl,
how did you "get" a sponsor? did you just go up to someone after a meeting? like, what wa the process for you? I get paralyzed when I get scared, and I'm scared about finding a sponsor because I don't know "the right way to do it." And I know there's no "right way" but there's a way... or like, ways people have done it. So how did you find yours?
SP
how did you "get" a sponsor? did you just go up to someone after a meeting? like, what wa the process for you? I get paralyzed when I get scared, and I'm scared about finding a sponsor because I don't know "the right way to do it." And I know there's no "right way" but there's a way... or like, ways people have done it. So how did you find yours?
SP
"sp" forgive me if you have told us your first name and i missed it. i love to address people by their first name, if you care to share.
God to me = love.
that was a thought i could wrap my brain around in early recovery. all step two is asking us is the following:
2. came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
came to believe...it's written in the past tense for a reason. are you open to the idea that at some point in your recovery journey that you will be restored to some semblance of sanity by this good, nurturing, Power that is always within - not external, but within?
and
3. made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
all this step is asking of us is that we are willing to make a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understood Him. and please do not overlook the word "care". that to me is very, very, important in this step.
God, or love, as i like to believe has revealed itself to me on more than one occasion. these steps dovetail off of one another and it has been my experience that the longer i stick around and integrate these steps in my life daily, more is revealed. if you are having problems with step two, then i suggest you go back to step one and work it with your sponsor until you are ready to progress.
i'll try to find a thread that i started some years ago that has some excellent discussions on steps 1, 2, and 3 and bump it up for you. gosh what a bang i get out of watching your spirit awake and i am grateful you are here.
hugs and tons of encouragement to you ~
sammy
God to me = love.
that was a thought i could wrap my brain around in early recovery. all step two is asking us is the following:
2. came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
came to believe...it's written in the past tense for a reason. are you open to the idea that at some point in your recovery journey that you will be restored to some semblance of sanity by this good, nurturing, Power that is always within - not external, but within?
and
3. made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
all this step is asking of us is that we are willing to make a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understood Him. and please do not overlook the word "care". that to me is very, very, important in this step.
God, or love, as i like to believe has revealed itself to me on more than one occasion. these steps dovetail off of one another and it has been my experience that the longer i stick around and integrate these steps in my life daily, more is revealed. if you are having problems with step two, then i suggest you go back to step one and work it with your sponsor until you are ready to progress.
i'll try to find a thread that i started some years ago that has some excellent discussions on steps 1, 2, and 3 and bump it up for you. gosh what a bang i get out of watching your spirit awake and i am grateful you are here.
hugs and tons of encouragement to you ~
sammy
Thanks sammy,
I will read that post ;)
I'm Bridget, by the way....
Nice to "meet" you.
And thanks, relaly..
I will read that post ;)
I'm Bridget, by the way....
Nice to "meet" you.
And thanks, relaly..
you're welcomed, bridget.
much love to you ~
sammy
much love to you ~
sammy
Hi Bridget...After a meeting, I walked up to a woman that I had really enjoyed her story and just asked her if she would be my sponsor. She told me she would temporarly because she already had 3 sponsees but would help me until I found someone else. She helped me find that person. Look for women with over a year and a story that you relate too. Most that have been in the program that long expect that newcomers will ask, so don't worry about it. If they can't do it, you ask at the next meeting or ask for a list. It's really easy honey, try not to over think it. Cowgirl
