Lets Just Do It, Shall We?

Pain Pills
21
ramon,
i am a mother of two kids(3 and 5) work and go to school full time. i did it and making excuses only prolonged it. i couldn't take time off and put my kids aside. i c/t while chasing after two little(and very wired) kids. i didn't spend my days trying to cop, i run ragged everyday starting at 6:00am and ending at 10:00pm when they go to bed. i have always held down a job, school and house. i am a very funtional addict and am high class. my daughter goes to a private school and i drive nice cars. i'm not your run of the mill heroin addict, as you so sterotype. all's that i am saying is that it is possible to clean up c/t you just have to really want it, and i did!!
good luck in whatever way you chose.
raerae
22
Thanks for your advice Sara. I think WDs are different for everyone. Some people dont take as much as others. How could withdrawls from someone taking 6 Vicodens a day compare to that of someone taking 20 10mg percocet a day - if you ask me thats a huge difference. Not that theyre not both addicting, indeed they are - but to WD - do you understand what I'm saying?

I hope we can all be clean one day and hopefully soon. I know I am clean for today - and right now thats all I give a **it about!!!!

Thanks for all your support, hon.

Love,
Marie
23
Withdrawls a big ball of nothing? I must be weak ..I got so damn sick...
I had to go to a hospital..and didn't feel normal for 27 days. At that point I could tie my shoes. It took me 3 months for my head to clear...
24
Thank you. Now I'm going to try to sleep again. I just emailed you Ker.
Love,
Marie
25
dog,
as I read the post I have one thing to say... I got to the point .. as most of us had to ... that we wanted to be clean no matter what... it is a life and death thing no ifs, ands, or buts, ... I think briar was saying if we think to long we will think of any exuse in the book not to do it.. its too painful,,, I gotta work.... I gotta.. this I gotta. that... well boo hooo.. you gotta live first....
I left a very good nursing career to go to rehab and go to meetings and get and stay clean... I have a new career for now.. I lost a husband to get and stay clean ... so dont begin to say that some people just cant do 'whatever it takes' cause if they want to get clean and save their own lives they will... they can get another job.. ...
Biar...
now you see what us old timers have been saying.... I am sooo glad... even if you dont go c/t just walking the walk and doing it... being determined.... I am sooo glad now you see.... you know we are all here for you ...
God Bless us alll...
Teresa
26
August you have really blown me away with your statement which I am going to copy here

I found the withdrawal to be a big ball of nothing. Sure, you don't feel so good for a few days, but it is nothing compared to the damage we inflict on ourselves by staying steeped in our addictions.

August Im really glad that withdrawels were like that for you,but can you please tell me how much you were using and for how long,not your pot addiction,your opiate addiction,if it was a severe habit I dont see how you could make that statement in all honesty.
Please fill me in so I can see if my using is along the scale of yours,so I can see if my horrible withdrawels are all in the way I am thinking and not from the severe habit I had,you say only a few days,well just recently I got a lovely 24 days clean and even after that length of time I still felt really weak and quite crook most of the time.
27
chad,
no one is saying that withdrawls are painless, but they really aren't as bad as everyone makes them out to be. if you really want it, then you will do it. whinning and laying around only make you feel worse. dealing with it and moving on will make it a hell of alot easier to deal with. i went c/t from a huge heroin addiction and i can honestly say it wasn't that bad. a little achy but i lived. the mental part is where i find the challenge!! i would take the physical part over the mental anyday!! like i said before the physical part is simlpy mind over matter. the mental part, well that takes work.
good luck to you
raerae
28
You guys need to remember (and for those of you that are new), that August has looked death in the face while batteling cancer and addiction. Compared to the cancer and all of the awful treatments and illness that is associated with it, withdrawal from pain pills WAS a big ball of nothing. He put things into perspective..... August doesn't minimize anyone's pain or heartache. He just tells how things are for him. He didn't say that it was like that for anyone else.

Please read for clarity...
Cowgirl
29
Fair enough Cowgirl,after facing cancer I guess that withdrawing would be a lot easier,the thing is we are all facing our own devils and to minimise withdrawels for everyone is not the way I would do it.
Raerae,you would be the first person Ive ever known who had a huge heroin habit and found withdrawels ok,maybe it is because you were a high class addict as you said,but Ive never known anyone who went cold turkey from heroin call their withdrawels easy.
Im out of here,if you guys cant understand that withdrawels are truly horrible for a lot of people, well Im in the wrong place,I thought I was with fellow addicts all trying to get clean who would know that withdrawels for some of their fellow addicts can be truly horrible and accept that we are not making it up.
30
Hi y'all,

I understand where August is coming from. Though I have not experienced this first-hand, I feel confident that withdrawal is a big ball of nothing compared to battling Cancer. But, I also believe that our own personal make-up changes things as does the amount of drugs we have taken and the length of time for which we have used these drugs. In any event, most people will not die from withdrawal, but the addiction CAN kill us, so to me the choice was easy. I admitted complete defeat in the drug arena and was then able to get on with my life. Good luck to all those in the midst of withdrawal and to all those about to embark on the journey!
Sara
31
CHAD,HOW YA DOIN?I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR GOING THROUGH,I HAVE BEEN A PILL POPIN FOOL FOR THE LAST 7YRS AVERING10 TO 15 10/325 PERCS A DAY NON STOP EXCEPT WHEN I WOULD RUN OUT AND HAVE TO GO CT TILL MY NEXT REFILL SO IN OTHER WORDS I HAVE WENT 84 TIMES WITHDRAWING OVER A PERIOD OF 7YRS,TELL ME THAT AN'T A f***ED UP WAY TO LIVE,SO I DECIED 26 DAYS AGO THAT WHAT THE HELL IS ONE MORE CT WITHDRAW WHEN I CAN GET OFF OF THIS MERRY GO ROUND FOR THE LAST TIME AND NEVER GET BACK ON THAT RIDE AGAIN,DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING HERE?IF I CAN DO IT ANYBODY CAN DO IT!!!!! YOU JUST GOT TO WANT IT BAD ENOUGH,AND FOR THOSE WHO DON'T LIKE WITHDRAWS,WELL NO s*** I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY THAT DOES,AND MAYBE IF YOUR AS STUPID AS ME IT MIGHT TAKE YOU 84 TRIPS TO HELL AND BACK TO FINALLY GET THE PICTURE!!!!!!!!!!.YOUR FRIEND TO THE END VINNY.
32
chad,
to clarify myself... I was taking 30 pills of the 10 mills of perks a day then I added just plain oxys on top if I could get them.. ( those dont have tylenol in them...) so ... you do the math... I didnt find withdrawls that bad and I have never had the flu either.. but I was very sick and sweating and having diarhea... and and and..but it is just something that I put on myself and I had to do it... plain and simple....
It is not easy or painless .. but it is necessary... and I remember it like yesterday the skin crawling feeling... all of it.. and I dont want to repeat it... and if I hadnt felf it I would have anything to remember to lose... it is a deterent for me....
I did make it out to be worse than it was .. fear does funny things to a person ... and if you sit around on the poor me pot it does get pretty big... so my other advise for those going through it right now..is go to a meeting... fit your schedule around meetings... not the other way around....
my two cents..
God Bless
Teresa
33
Chad:

Withdrawal for me, was horrific. I understand your feelings. Just remember not to take anything you read here too personally. It's not directed at you. I think it's great that w/d for some is a big ball of nothing, however, for me, it was a big ball of something. Nobody is trying to minimize yor pain. I think people are just pointing out their own experience, strength and hope. I'm glad my w/d were absolutely terrible, now I hope I never forget that time in my life, that feeling of desperation. If it were easy then I might feel it's nothing to go back and use again, just once. I have a good, healthy fear of w/d. I never want to go to that deep, dark place again.

Peace,

Rachel
34
Chad, I was taking about 80mg of Percocet a day when that ceased to suppress my pain. I then went on Fentanyl, (Duragesic Patches) and as I progressed in chemo, the pain escalated to the point where I was at 175mg. Now I have never shot heroin, but I was told by the "experts" on this board that withdrawing from Fentanyl is no walk in the park because it is 50 times more addictive than morphine. I do not know how that compares to Oxy, but I can tell your that it is many, many times a multiple of 80mg a day of percocet.

I withdrew in the midst of chemotherapy at a time when my body was weakened and I was more suceptable to pain. I withdrew while practicing law for living so that I would not go broke. Geesh! I am starting to feel sorry for myself just writing all this nonsense. I sound like a cry baby. All of it is irrelevant to quiting drugs.

I consider myself a warrior. I do battle for a living. I win and have been doing so since getting sober by practicing the Steps and adhering to the principles in all my affairs and the affairs of my clients.

Without question, the toughest battle I ever faced was learning to live without my drug of choice or any substitutes. As you were so quick to point out, mine was marijuana, but it just as easily could have been alcohol or cocaine (I got sober before pills came into high fashion). It is all the same. I do not subscribe to the idea that addiction is unique to each drug. I sit beside pill heads, free base heads, crack heads, stone cold junkies, and alcoholics. We are all garden variety addicts, none of us better or worse than others. They welcomed this lowly pot head to their ranks, and I am grateful for that.

Learning to stay off drugs (as opposed to getting off drugs) required completely rewiring the way I look at the world. It took hard work and daily commitment. It is not for the faint at heart, and I could not have done it alone--without help, it would have been too much for me.

I do not prepare myself for battle by spending a lot of time figuring out how I am going to lose. When my time to withdraw came I did not spend time trying to justify why I should put off til tomorrow what needed to be done today. Nor did I spend time thinking about how special and unique my situation is because after all, poor me, I have cancer and I am on chemo and I might die and what's the point, and it is too hard and the drugs are too strong, and maybe it would be OK if I took just a little today--I am sure I can find somebody to pat my back and give me a soothing "that's allright, don't beat yourself up," and it is so much harder for me than for everyone else, blah, blah, blah.

I prepared myself by deciding that the time had come and by granting myself no excuses. Failure was not an option--my life is too precious to flush down the toilet for some silly little buzz in my head. In battle, both sides sacrifice and one must be willing to live with the cost of the battle. The wise person makes a realistic assessment of the costs going in, but once the action starts, the losses are a given. I give absolutely zero power to my own pain or discomfort when implementing a plan. Focusing on the discomfort will only serve to take my eye off the prize. The price of distraction is defeat.

Remember the Ali - Forman fight? Forman landed a series of seemingly devastating blows on Ali. Ali then leaned into Forman and whispered "Is that all you got George?" The rest is history. That is the attitude of a warrior who wins. Had Ali felt sorry for himself at that moment, had he acknowleged the pain, his career would have been over.

What I did do was develop a game plan for success and then I stuck to it. I called my oncologist and informed her of my plan to quit and asked for suggestions relative to my medication, which she gave me. I did not ask for her permission, nor did I solicit a suggestion that it was "too early" for me, or that withdrawals and chemo would be "too much." I told my doctor what I was going to do, and then I did it. The discomfort was over in a few weeks and then I got my life back.

Of course, I was lucky. I had years of working the Steps behind me, and all I had to deal with was my physical dependence of the drug, which was a big ball of nothing compared to learning how to live drug free. Learning to be free from the cravings to use, to ignore the small voice in one's head that says it is OK to just use a little, just once, to escape the overwhelming onslaught of self loathing and my very real tendency to overeact to every little thing, now that was a challenge of Odyssean proportion.

Luckily, I had done that work I had done that work years earlier when I started attending AA for my lowly pot addiction. It took daily meetings (I was a hard case so I did about 28 consecutive 90s in 90) and the first year was a royal bi*ch. I nearly slipped a dozen times or more, but I had a roomful of people to watch my back and I made it to dry ground. Yes, it was tough, but was also one of the purest, most beautiful times of my life, and many friends that I met during that first year are in my life today and by my side on my cancer journey.

This mere "pot head" was able to go through withdrawals and stay off the dope. Any more questions, feel free to ask.

August

Briar, you go girl!
35
August,
You are the MAN. You have the "endurance" personality both in the sports arena and the arena of life. I find you inspiring. You offer the kind of "tough love" that I am comfortable with. Others might have difficulty with this approach, but for a "procrastinator", I must adhere to the just do it approach lest I fall into my old habits. It can be tempting at times to "just pull the blanket over my head", but I find there's always a price to pay.

Hope you are doing well and enjoying your chemo-free time (my Dad just finished up his whole thing and is also doing well now).

Take care,
Sara
36
Ok guys, didn't mean any harm by my post. This is what I'm doing for ME. I'm not minimizing w/d's for anyone, we're all different, some have it bad, some don't but w/ds are nothing but a means to an end. The only way thru it is thru it. Didn't mean to sound arrogant, Dog, and Chad, you don't have to leave because people don't agree on things. The comment to raerae about her being high class was uncalled for, I think she just meant that this damn disease discriminates against nobody. Teresa, August, Cowgirl, Sharon, Kat, you know where I'm coming from with this.

Marie,
I'm sorry if I offended you, you're the last person I would do that to. You know how I feel about you. I got your email and will email you later, all the stuff I have going on now has got my head spinning and I don't need a drug habit on top of it. My husband may be taken from us thru no fault of our own and that could be a reason to keep using, but I'm taking it as a reason to stop and get my s*** together hopefully for once and for all. I in no way meant that just do it for you Marie, it was for me. I will be emailing you, I'm going to try to lay down, we have to wait for some calls.

Best to everyone,
Briar
37
Finally, this thread is no longer about HOW you should withdraw, or who's tougher or better because of how they allegedly withdrew. It's about making a commitment to withdraw (c/t, taper, sub, etc.) and following through. That's what I took from August's post. Withdrawals ARE different for everybody...lots of things effect the severity beyond the amount you were taking when you stopped. But I think the message is, don't let the fear of w/d keep you from saving your own life.... and once through the physical w/d, develop and follow a plan to remain abstinent. NA/AA works well for many and its free. Some remain abstinent without lifelong attendance at 12-step meetings. It's not the only way. But I've never heard anyone say that attending AA/NA meetings in early sobriety hurt them.... Whatever you choose, be willing to ask for help and have a plan to combat the mental part of this disease. At our bottoms, I think we're all sure that we'll never use again. However, while fear and shame are great motivators in the short-term, they eventually subside.... things get better, our memories of what it was like become more distant and take on a rosier hue, and the compulsion to use returns ten fold.... unless we develop and follow through on a plan of action. I've learned the hard way. Peace, M.
38
Well put, M. The first step is painful, but you MUST take it to reap the benefits of being clean/sober. In hindsight, the choice is obvious, but when I was caught in the throws of addiction, my disease had a major stronghold on me. It paralyzed me with fear. I was fearful of the physical pain withdrawal would bring and fearful of the emotional cravings I would experience, but most of all, I think I was just fearful of living a life that I could not "control" and once I gave up this "quest" to control everything, I found, oddly enough, that things became increasingly more manageable. I am even surviving those difficult events I thought would be the end of me without some assistance in numbing the pain. Additionally, the sense of accomplishment I feel coming out the other end intact when life throws me a curveball is wonderful. There are oh so many life lessons to be learned in recovery!
Sara
39
thank you briar.

chad, what i meant was i am high class and not your sterotype of a heroin addict. i'm not a high class addict as you so stupidly said. this can effect anyone, and we are no different from each other. i have been a heroin addict for 10yrs. and i have always maintained my lifestyle while keeping up apperances. i work, go to school and raise two kids. i went c/t and am very proud of myself. believe me or not i really don't care. all that i am saying is if you want it you will get it. pain or no pain- there is no easy way.
raerae
40
Hey now, Sara, gosh I have missed you--hope you are doing well! You wrote:

" I was fearful of the physical pain withdrawal would bring and fearful of the emotional cravings I would experience, but most of all, I think I was just fearful of living a life that I could not "control" and once I gave up this "quest" to control everything I found, oddly enough, that things became increasingly more manageable.

I really do believe that it is our fear that slows our progress. I have never yet had an experience in life that lived up to the hype I gave it in my head while living in dreaded anticipation. I am very, very fortunate in that the Steps have provided me an arsenal of tools for dealing with fear. I have learned not to give my fear the power that it craves.

When I had about three years sober, I snapped a leg in a kayak pin. I was trapped in the boat with my head under water. Then they got my head above water but I was still trapped there with my legs stuck in the hull and the boat wrapped around a rock like a pretzel. It was a very dicey situation and I was scared. I was pretty sure I was going to die.

It took what seemed like an eternity to free me from the pin (30 minutes) and then another 7 hours for the extraction, evacuation, triage, and ambulance ride to the hospital7 hours in excruciating pain from a multiple fracture in my leg. Cussing didnt seem to help, but I cussed a lot anyway.

During the ride to the hospital, I caught my breath and stopped cussing. I remembered a story I had heard once, that our brain does not know how to store a memory of pain, because if it stored pain, no woman would ever have more than one baby. So on the ride to the hospital, I realized that as bad as the pain was, it was completely transitory, that when that moment passed the pain would be gone forever. I found comfort in that thought and later used it as a basis for an entire athletic program. Similarly, I applied the spiritual principals I had learned in AA to deal with the fear I had of dying in whitewater and went on to develop a deep spiritual connection with Class V whitewater.

Amazingly, I learned that a huge aspect of being released from fear is learning to let go of things, including my need to control everything around me.

I used similar techniques when dealing with withdrawal. Each moment, I refused to give the pain, discomfort and fear any power and chalked up being another moment closer to being free of the drugs. It would be nice to say I was in control of the fear and the pain but a better analogy is that I went with it, like being in a rudderless boat floating down a river. While I can own my fear, I refuse to allow it to own me. I also found that lots of human contactvisits from friends and meetings, helped keep my mind off the pain.

I do not envy those who have to deal with withdrawal and I doubt that anyone considers it easy. However, I do not think the solution lies in allowing our fear to grow and fester in the darkness until it dominates our lives. Better to shrink it down to its right size and then kick its puny butt.

August

Raerae, you know I am rooting for you!