I was reading your comments on the family board. Have you seen the Intervention episode with the two brothers? It is available "on demand" now. These boys are on death's doorstep and still live at home with their parents. Not to say that you would ever get to that point, I know you wouldn't and hope to God Jake would never slip that far. I think that these boys had a better chance of getting well if they weren't enabled so much. Check it out. I think their names were Marcel and Sebastian.
hello,alice, couldn't find it on demand,where is this show? thankyou.
A&E Channel. I go into on demand and go to TV Series. Then I go to A&E and then Intervention. They usually have about five to choose from. Do you have cable?
How are you doing Poopie????? I've been thinking about you. Was gonna make a post with your name.
How are you doing Poopie????? I've been thinking about you. Was gonna make a post with your name.
That show is like a train wreck...I can't look away.
I have seen the show and I relate. To a point.
I don't think I'll be posting about Jake anymore.
I don't think I'll be posting about Jake anymore.
WHY?
I hope you were not offended by me suggesting you watch that episode. If you stop posting about Jake then you hide the way his illness is affecting you. If you hold it in you will become sicker. Your honesty in this situation has been very revealing. I always thought of you as the "tough" one on the board. I sometimes resented you for your no nonsense approach. When I was still tapering you told me "the gig is up". I was so pissed off. I thought, it's up when I say its up!"
By revealing not only Jakes struggles but your struggles with Jake; I felt I came to know you. I respected you because of your honesty of your problems. There are some great people on this board. There are some, however, that never share their struggles. They never write about their problems. They offer support and may have shared their story but it seems like it never rains on their side of the street. I can't really know, trust or respect them as much as someone who tells the truth. The truth is that every human struggles whether an addict or not. We are on the board here to help AND to be helped. Sharing your struggles with co-dependency is helping you to get well. That's what all this is about.
Don't be so hard on yourself for not being able to throw your son out. That is an incredibly hard thing to do. Most of the people giving you advise on this have never done this themselves. Some of them don't even have children. It's just that sometimes you're too close to the situation to really see. Outsiders see things differently. Just take it day to day. Pray that the right decisions will come to you for what is best for Lisa.
By revealing not only Jakes struggles but your struggles with Jake; I felt I came to know you. I respected you because of your honesty of your problems. There are some great people on this board. There are some, however, that never share their struggles. They never write about their problems. They offer support and may have shared their story but it seems like it never rains on their side of the street. I can't really know, trust or respect them as much as someone who tells the truth. The truth is that every human struggles whether an addict or not. We are on the board here to help AND to be helped. Sharing your struggles with co-dependency is helping you to get well. That's what all this is about.
Don't be so hard on yourself for not being able to throw your son out. That is an incredibly hard thing to do. Most of the people giving you advise on this have never done this themselves. Some of them don't even have children. It's just that sometimes you're too close to the situation to really see. Outsiders see things differently. Just take it day to day. Pray that the right decisions will come to you for what is best for Lisa.
I wasn't offended Alice, just confused. What does that show have to do with me? You see, even though none of us are unique, we are all individuals. And Jake is nothing like those two boys. He still has a chance and I can still support him. I truly believe that. I'm learning that I can't fix him and that he's going to do what he's going to do but I can still be his mom and love and support him without kicking him to the curb.
I didn't realize that you resented me and I'm sorry if I offended you in some way. I tend to write sometimes without thinking things through..it's just what comes to mind at the time. It's never my intention to hurt anyone.
I didn't realize that you resented me and I'm sorry if I offended you in some way. I tend to write sometimes without thinking things through..it's just what comes to mind at the time. It's never my intention to hurt anyone.
I held resentment when I was still using because you were so stern with me. Us addicts don't like that approach. It is the rebel in me I suppose.
The episode that I directed you to made me think of you when the Dad was always so loving of the boys. He said, "they are sick". I knew that they would never stay clean because he would never toughen up with them. They were selling heroin out of the house every day. The father turned a blind eye.
As I said in the above post, "I don't ever think you would get to his level and I hope to God that Jake would never go down so low". You had recently been posting about how you were enabling. That show was a perfect example of that. I had just watched it and it stuck with me. It is not that I think that Jake is like them. As I said those boys are on deaths doorstep. I don't know whether Jake is using or not. I hope he is not. You have said that you are not letting him grow up. I think that qualifies as enabling.
As I said before, I do it myself in many ways. My girls are still innocent as far as drugs are concerned. I always have said that I would probably do the same exact thing as you. Having lived with a brother on drugs; I saw firsthand how hard it is on the family. God I was using at the same time. He was also on death's doorstep. My mother said making him leave the house was the hardest thing she had to do besides burying my father. I can't help but wonder if she had let him go sooner what the outcome would have been. His outcome was that he was in rehab within a week and has been clean ever since. I never thought I would live to see the day. I thought for sure he would die from drugs.
The episode that I directed you to made me think of you when the Dad was always so loving of the boys. He said, "they are sick". I knew that they would never stay clean because he would never toughen up with them. They were selling heroin out of the house every day. The father turned a blind eye.
As I said in the above post, "I don't ever think you would get to his level and I hope to God that Jake would never go down so low". You had recently been posting about how you were enabling. That show was a perfect example of that. I had just watched it and it stuck with me. It is not that I think that Jake is like them. As I said those boys are on deaths doorstep. I don't know whether Jake is using or not. I hope he is not. You have said that you are not letting him grow up. I think that qualifies as enabling.
As I said before, I do it myself in many ways. My girls are still innocent as far as drugs are concerned. I always have said that I would probably do the same exact thing as you. Having lived with a brother on drugs; I saw firsthand how hard it is on the family. God I was using at the same time. He was also on death's doorstep. My mother said making him leave the house was the hardest thing she had to do besides burying my father. I can't help but wonder if she had let him go sooner what the outcome would have been. His outcome was that he was in rehab within a week and has been clean ever since. I never thought I would live to see the day. I thought for sure he would die from drugs.
I so don't do intervention, but I was so curious about these two boys with manm saying it was a train wreck and since Lisa wrote there was no hope for them...
That won't be how I see it, cause they are still both very much alive, but then that is me.
Absolutely stunning boys, all three of them, anyone pay attention to the younger on when he spoke, to the older one when he spoke about the youngest brother and how he was forgotten for lack of a better word. I talk to parents about that a lot it seems so important seeing the effect the chaos had on my younger ones.
I had two favorite parts, the time the oldest boy talked of a conversation between him and his dad, He father telling him he wasn't the parent, and him thinking well if you are than act like it....but my most favorite part was learning that there is rehab for parents, well that is about damn time isn't it...I actually think that when addicts go to rehab that insurance should pay for parents to go because I see parents as a huge part of the problem, but then again that is just me...
Really now once you know there may not be any one right way, but the wrong ones are plainly marked out..
I could see the relationship of their lives to my sons. I have no doubt that he didn't start any day without the crack pipe and that nothing much would get done until he was high can't think there was much difference when he relapse to oxy...although from experience I know that once high there isn't a reason anymore to much of anything now is there...I wonder if he might to relate to that, although I won't ever ask.
I can not relate at all to the parents, ( unless I look at it in retrospect to how I was with my hubby...oh that was one hell of a sickness for sure ) well except the one part with the child saying there hasn't been a day ever that my father didn't hug me. It it just so sad that the father didn't know how much more important that hug could have been if the enabling wasn't there as well.
Total acceptance of your child no matter how they choose to live. Wonder if this could be taught?
That won't be how I see it, cause they are still both very much alive, but then that is me.
Absolutely stunning boys, all three of them, anyone pay attention to the younger on when he spoke, to the older one when he spoke about the youngest brother and how he was forgotten for lack of a better word. I talk to parents about that a lot it seems so important seeing the effect the chaos had on my younger ones.
I had two favorite parts, the time the oldest boy talked of a conversation between him and his dad, He father telling him he wasn't the parent, and him thinking well if you are than act like it....but my most favorite part was learning that there is rehab for parents, well that is about damn time isn't it...I actually think that when addicts go to rehab that insurance should pay for parents to go because I see parents as a huge part of the problem, but then again that is just me...
Really now once you know there may not be any one right way, but the wrong ones are plainly marked out..
I could see the relationship of their lives to my sons. I have no doubt that he didn't start any day without the crack pipe and that nothing much would get done until he was high can't think there was much difference when he relapse to oxy...although from experience I know that once high there isn't a reason anymore to much of anything now is there...I wonder if he might to relate to that, although I won't ever ask.
I can not relate at all to the parents, ( unless I look at it in retrospect to how I was with my hubby...oh that was one hell of a sickness for sure ) well except the one part with the child saying there hasn't been a day ever that my father didn't hug me. It it just so sad that the father didn't know how much more important that hug could have been if the enabling wasn't there as well.
Total acceptance of your child no matter how they choose to live. Wonder if this could be taught?
The Dad's behavior was going to send his wife back to Chile. She couldn't take it anymore and admitted it was making her sick. The interventionist even said to the father that he was willing to lose his marriage due to the boys.
Of course there is hope. Where there is life, there is hope.
I couldn't believe that the Dad never got angry with the boys. He upheld them in every way. That is serious denial.
His indifference towards his clean son was sad. When he started to confront his brother about the dealing; the Dad told him he should leave and escorted him to the door. The only ones that mattered were the sick ones.
It was sad.
Of course there is hope. Where there is life, there is hope.
I couldn't believe that the Dad never got angry with the boys. He upheld them in every way. That is serious denial.
His indifference towards his clean son was sad. When he started to confront his brother about the dealing; the Dad told him he should leave and escorted him to the door. The only ones that mattered were the sick ones.
It was sad.
I don't think I said there was no hope for those boys, Tina...I went back and looked? Like Alice said, where there is life there is hope.
I do enable Jake. What parent doesn't in some way. I'm selfish in the fact that I don't want him to grow up, I want all of my boys to still need me. That's something I work on and pray about daily. It's all I can do.
Jake is not using at this time. He's back on sub and doing really well. Again. We all have a plan now (the 3 of us, Jake, his Dad and I) and are taking steps to stick to it. But I find that my bounderies change daily. They get stricter in some ways, a little more giving in others. I absolutely am just doing the best I can.
My sponsor can't watch Intervention..it's a huge trigger for her. I really like the interventionist's. They would have a field day with me.
I do enable Jake. What parent doesn't in some way. I'm selfish in the fact that I don't want him to grow up, I want all of my boys to still need me. That's something I work on and pray about daily. It's all I can do.
Jake is not using at this time. He's back on sub and doing really well. Again. We all have a plan now (the 3 of us, Jake, his Dad and I) and are taking steps to stick to it. But I find that my bounderies change daily. They get stricter in some ways, a little more giving in others. I absolutely am just doing the best I can.
My sponsor can't watch Intervention..it's a huge trigger for her. I really like the interventionist's. They would have a field day with me.
I took the Jake isn't like those boys....He still has a chance and I will support him as the basis to what I wrote. I guess I misunderstood what you were saying.
I thought I held the title on here of run on sentences and shifting gears mid sentence.
I am glad to hear that Jake is doing well....
And if you ever need a kick in the a**, well I would gladly help you out ;)
Alice, the father...
I loved that he didn't get angry, why get angry at them, he should be livid with himself for his reactions.
I loved that he didn't take it personal, or seem to anyway...It is a shame he couldn't have that love he showed with no enabling...he would have given both his boys the best of gifts unconditional love. I am real big on the love stuff, just keep loving them at every turn no matter how bad they seem and let them go.
I went and did a bit of peeking, I don't know if this was rolled because I don't remember if I was totally focused when they put up the that they both left treatment and went back home, but Sebastian went back to get help and if this is true has been clean since August 2nd....Marcel is still using, which somehow makes sense, he need some real help, they were right when they talked of him needing his own identity...
The older brother my heart is just broke for him...and I see this so much...I wanted to jump into the screen and hug him and tell him he wasn't crazy.
It is all the way around just so damn sad, and this plays out day after day all over the world.
Love,
Tina
I thought I held the title on here of run on sentences and shifting gears mid sentence.
I am glad to hear that Jake is doing well....
And if you ever need a kick in the a**, well I would gladly help you out ;)
Alice, the father...
I loved that he didn't get angry, why get angry at them, he should be livid with himself for his reactions.
I loved that he didn't take it personal, or seem to anyway...It is a shame he couldn't have that love he showed with no enabling...he would have given both his boys the best of gifts unconditional love. I am real big on the love stuff, just keep loving them at every turn no matter how bad they seem and let them go.
I went and did a bit of peeking, I don't know if this was rolled because I don't remember if I was totally focused when they put up the that they both left treatment and went back home, but Sebastian went back to get help and if this is true has been clean since August 2nd....Marcel is still using, which somehow makes sense, he need some real help, they were right when they talked of him needing his own identity...
The older brother my heart is just broke for him...and I see this so much...I wanted to jump into the screen and hug him and tell him he wasn't crazy.
It is all the way around just so damn sad, and this plays out day after day all over the world.
Love,
Tina
I know you are doing your best Lisa. Never thought anything else. I also commend you for your bravery and humility to talk about your problem and Jakes addiction.
All we really want as mothers is for our children to be happy. Every one of us.
If I posted about some of the crap my kids do, everyone would probably make suggestions and say they were spoiled or selfish or both. At times they are. If brought to my attention I would be hurt and insulted. The truth at times hurts. That's probably why everyone on the board doesn't post about their problems, kids, spouses, etc. Ya gotta be brave to put it out there.
I'm glad that Jake is doing well.
I don't resent you.
All we really want as mothers is for our children to be happy. Every one of us.
If I posted about some of the crap my kids do, everyone would probably make suggestions and say they were spoiled or selfish or both. At times they are. If brought to my attention I would be hurt and insulted. The truth at times hurts. That's probably why everyone on the board doesn't post about their problems, kids, spouses, etc. Ya gotta be brave to put it out there.
I'm glad that Jake is doing well.
I don't resent you.
Thank you Alice. That helped.
I count on you Tina to kick my butt. When no one else will, you're always there with a boot. lol
I count on you Tina to kick my butt. When no one else will, you're always there with a boot. lol
Alice, I doubt anyone's life is perfect. Many folks don't want to post OT information here because well, it's a site about addiciton. As for not respecting those who don't, isn't that a little stiff?
Personally, my struggles in life these days have to do with politics, and I have certainly learned that talking about that here is not good.
There is rain in everyone's life at one time or another, but some just do not feel the need to share what goes on in their homes for the thousands of people to read and judge,,,,,they are more private types. I don't get why you would hold that against them.
Carol
Personally, my struggles in life these days have to do with politics, and I have certainly learned that talking about that here is not good.
There is rain in everyone's life at one time or another, but some just do not feel the need to share what goes on in their homes for the thousands of people to read and judge,,,,,they are more private types. I don't get why you would hold that against them.
Carol
Some are more private and absolutely we should and do respect that. I think too that you're really smart to not bring politics to this board Carol..you are respecting the fact that this is an addiction board. I respect you for that.
Thank you Lisa! I have a lot of respect for you as well. The day was where you and I had HUGE resentments towards each other, but thank God those days as gone. It's such a sweet relief to not have to worry about coming here and worrying about getting into drama, isn't it?
I've certainly been guilty of bringing OT subjects here that didn't belong here, guess we all have at one time or another. .
I am very blessed, thank God, to have a pretty darn good marriage/family and personal life. Again, it's not perfect, I don't think any are, but it's certainly not something that relates to my addiction today, nor is it something I feel like sharing on this board most of the time. I don't think that makes me a dishonest person.
Absolutely not, it does not make you dishonest at all.
OT subjects are fine as far as I'm concerned, as long as they aren't offensive. We all need a little levity. We are not a glum lot, remember? There are just certain subjects that should be left to personal discussions off the board.
I don't even want to think about those days Carol. I love peace in my life and I am so grateful that we got the chance to get to know one another so that we could see just how alike we are. Maybe that's why we butted heads so much.
OT subjects are fine as far as I'm concerned, as long as they aren't offensive. We all need a little levity. We are not a glum lot, remember? There are just certain subjects that should be left to personal discussions off the board.
I don't even want to think about those days Carol. I love peace in my life and I am so grateful that we got the chance to get to know one another so that we could see just how alike we are. Maybe that's why we butted heads so much.
I think that might be the case, too, Lisa. You and I are both strong willed and we just needed to get out of our own way to become friends. I am sure glad we did!
Here's some OT talk for you.......Cade is riding today doing a BMX demo in front of 3000 teenagers at a local high school gym. It's a program put together by 25 local churches and is featuring 3 BMX riders and 3 skateboarders. He is so excited, and a little bit nervous, as are his dad and I. I have to go and get ready now so we'll be sure to have good seats and good view for the video camera!
Have a nice Saturday everyone!
