Hello all,
I just joined this site as I only have knowledge about addiction and recovery through someone Ive been involved with for going on 3 years. My "person" has been sober and in recovery for 4 years to my knowledge. I am almost certain they have never relapsed since I have known them. That being said I just found something out that is very unsettling to me, and I was wondering if the community could give me insight from a recovery standpoint vs an outsider like me.
My partner is a convicted felon who served several years for embezzlement. He told me he was a felon and an addict maybe 3 or more months into dating him. However, several years later I am now finding out the story he told me about his criminal past was a lie, and his deeds were a lot more cut and dry then he let on. His version casts blame on several other parties, and come to find out the truth is that he was the mastermind behind the whole thing-- plain and simple, and not complicated like he told me. (Its all over the internet. I trusted him and never researched his past, as I thought that was disrespectful, but something fell into my lap recently.)
If someone is in recovery, aren't they supposed to be completely transparent and honest about everything, including their past, in order to heal and be healthy and be successful in the program? Does him lying about his criminal past mean he is NOT in a good place regarding his recovery? I know for someone who is not an addict this lie would absolutely not be acceptable and would be a deal breaker. So I was wondering if I could get the perspective of people who are in recovery and if my thoughts on this are accurate or misguided.
Thank you so much.
Hi,
Just my opinion, I don't feel like I have enough info to judge. I understand you not giving details to protect identity, so I am not asking for more details.
If it were me....If I thought he gave a lot of information and had 100% changed over the years....it would be different than if he really lied about significant aspects and had a toe in the past behavior.
Really only you can decide what is going on, and what you will tolerate and what is okay and not okay.
At this point, if he has 4 years of recovery, I would say the present matters the most. What type of person is he *now*? However, I am not sure what he lied about-that would be a deciding factor for me.
Tough issue.
Just my opinion, I don't feel like I have enough info to judge. I understand you not giving details to protect identity, so I am not asking for more details.
If it were me....If I thought he gave a lot of information and had 100% changed over the years....it would be different than if he really lied about significant aspects and had a toe in the past behavior.
Really only you can decide what is going on, and what you will tolerate and what is okay and not okay.
At this point, if he has 4 years of recovery, I would say the present matters the most. What type of person is he *now*? However, I am not sure what he lied about-that would be a deciding factor for me.
Tough issue.
Parenting, thank you so much for responding. I would like to give you more details so you can assess my situation a little better.
Basically, he told me he and his family had a company that was being paid for their services by a big medical company, but they were not actually providing the services to the medical company, just getting paid for them. Executives in the medical company facilitated the transaction and were in on the whole thing (so nice chunk of blame is now shifted onto these phantom executives), and also his mother was the owner of this business and the brains of the operation, he was just doing her bidding. He "knew it was wrong, but had no idea it was illegal."
The reality is he WORKED for the medical company, created a fake business, was writing checks from the medical company to his fake business, and then his mother would cash the checks and spit the money with him. Plain and simple fraud and embezzlement.
The first story is a lot better, don't you think? LOL
Basically, he told me he and his family had a company that was being paid for their services by a big medical company, but they were not actually providing the services to the medical company, just getting paid for them. Executives in the medical company facilitated the transaction and were in on the whole thing (so nice chunk of blame is now shifted onto these phantom executives), and also his mother was the owner of this business and the brains of the operation, he was just doing her bidding. He "knew it was wrong, but had no idea it was illegal."
The reality is he WORKED for the medical company, created a fake business, was writing checks from the medical company to his fake business, and then his mother would cash the checks and spit the money with him. Plain and simple fraud and embezzlement.
The first story is a lot better, don't you think? LOL
Well, I don't have the magic answer or assessment. LOL
I think it really is up to you and what your heart and head are telling you.
I could see a situation where this happened before he got into recovery and he has moved past it, so it is really hard to share the story (because it doesn't reflect his current self and morals).
But, it could be an ongoing honesty problem...or moral problem for him...
I am not sure. I would do some reflecting on the situation and maybe discuss more with him (if you feel comfortable/safe to do so).
I think it really is up to you and what your heart and head are telling you.
I could see a situation where this happened before he got into recovery and he has moved past it, so it is really hard to share the story (because it doesn't reflect his current self and morals).
But, it could be an ongoing honesty problem...or moral problem for him...
I am not sure. I would do some reflecting on the situation and maybe discuss more with him (if you feel comfortable/safe to do so).
Thank you for your response. I guess my main question is that, is it part of the recovery program that you must be honest and transparent about your past mistakes? Especially something huge like a felony? Or is that not part of being successful in the program? I have limited knowledge on this topic as my only information about recovery comes from him. I have attended only a few meetings with him and it was very confessional. Purging and facing the truth no matter how shameful. (He didnt speak at any of the meetings I attended.) I assumed that was part of the process. Am I wrong?
AC,
Yes, it would be part of the process of most recovery programs but if he isn't actively working a program, I'm sure he could justify it.
I feel like you need to look at the bigger picture here. You're questioning his honesty about what happened. Honesty is a key thing in a relationship. I believe that you have a couple options here. 1. You can confront him and see what he says. He may say he didn't want to scare you away or something to that effect. You'll have to be the judge. or.... 2. You can pretend like you don't know this new info, which I don't think you can do.
4 years is a long time. If there's no sign of drug use and no criminal activity, I would at least give him a chance to explain.
Good luck
Yes, it would be part of the process of most recovery programs but if he isn't actively working a program, I'm sure he could justify it.
I feel like you need to look at the bigger picture here. You're questioning his honesty about what happened. Honesty is a key thing in a relationship. I believe that you have a couple options here. 1. You can confront him and see what he says. He may say he didn't want to scare you away or something to that effect. You'll have to be the judge. or.... 2. You can pretend like you don't know this new info, which I don't think you can do.
4 years is a long time. If there's no sign of drug use and no criminal activity, I would at least give him a chance to explain.
Good luck
Thank you for your response. There are no signs of drug use or criminal activity. But its really starting to piss me off that he has always seemed to hold me to a higher standard of morality than himself-- and then I stumble upon this HUGE deception. My life, past and current, is like "Leave it to Beaver", while his is like "Sons of Anarchy." And somehow I'm always the one on the witness stand. Doesn't seem fair.
Hi AC . . .and welcome. Most of us here have addicts that are in active use . . . or are playing recovery. So, as a mom of an addict . . .I'm not sure how helpful I can be. But I am sending hugs. I hope one of "our" recovering addicts -- Con, MK, Lolle, Jen -- will respond soon and provide their insights.
But . . .here is my 2 cents. There are at least 5 sides to every crime story . . . the victim's story, the cop's story, the perpetrator's story, what's printed in the news, and the truth. Even with cameras, we can debate as to what the truth is. (I'm thinking Rodney King.) Here's the bad news . . .You will never know the truth. But you do have at least 2 versions of the events . . . his and the internet's.
It sounds like he told you his "story" early in his recovery and your relationship. When he wasn't being particularly honest with himself. And when he wanted to show himself in the best possible light to you. But once he told you his off-the-shelf story he was stuck with it. It may be eating him up now that he hasn't been 100% honest with you on this. And . . .maybe he feels he has painted himself into such a corner that he doesn't know what to do. Especially now that years have passed since he first told you.
I know that you are pissed . . . and probably feel betrayed and are distrustful. Understandable. I know I couldn't keep this secret. He would have some 'splaning to do (in my best Rick Ricardo voice). One side of me would want to create an opportunity so he could share with me the truth . . . sorta make him feel like it is his idea. Right now . . .sorry . . .I don't have any great suggestions on how to do this. I'd probably tell him a story about someone else who has similar woes and how the internet screwed up their secret. . .and end the story with "you can't hide anything with the Internet." This would make him think . . . and may lead him to google himself . . . and hopefully he will come and talk to you.
The other side . . . well . . .I'm not sure I could be so calm and measured to create "the right mood" for him to feel safe in sharing. I'd be too flipping pissed!!!! That's the side of me that would either accidentally on purpose leave my internet research results for him to find OR I'd print them out and hand them to him (well . . .ok. . .ok . . .I'd probably throw them at him.)
Regardless of which route you take, I am assuming that he will say, "Mea culpa. You're absolutely correct. I was more culpable than I originally told you. Thank God you now know!" BUT . . .what if he doesn't?? What if he says that the internet got it ALL wrong? What if he stands by his original story? What then?? I'm not saying don't ask the questions . . .but I am saying . . .begin to think through whatever information he gives . . . can you forgive him and move forward together? Or, are there boundaries here?
Hope that something was helpful. Good luck!!!
Lynn
xoxo
But . . .here is my 2 cents. There are at least 5 sides to every crime story . . . the victim's story, the cop's story, the perpetrator's story, what's printed in the news, and the truth. Even with cameras, we can debate as to what the truth is. (I'm thinking Rodney King.) Here's the bad news . . .You will never know the truth. But you do have at least 2 versions of the events . . . his and the internet's.
It sounds like he told you his "story" early in his recovery and your relationship. When he wasn't being particularly honest with himself. And when he wanted to show himself in the best possible light to you. But once he told you his off-the-shelf story he was stuck with it. It may be eating him up now that he hasn't been 100% honest with you on this. And . . .maybe he feels he has painted himself into such a corner that he doesn't know what to do. Especially now that years have passed since he first told you.
I know that you are pissed . . . and probably feel betrayed and are distrustful. Understandable. I know I couldn't keep this secret. He would have some 'splaning to do (in my best Rick Ricardo voice). One side of me would want to create an opportunity so he could share with me the truth . . . sorta make him feel like it is his idea. Right now . . .sorry . . .I don't have any great suggestions on how to do this. I'd probably tell him a story about someone else who has similar woes and how the internet screwed up their secret. . .and end the story with "you can't hide anything with the Internet." This would make him think . . . and may lead him to google himself . . . and hopefully he will come and talk to you.
The other side . . . well . . .I'm not sure I could be so calm and measured to create "the right mood" for him to feel safe in sharing. I'd be too flipping pissed!!!! That's the side of me that would either accidentally on purpose leave my internet research results for him to find OR I'd print them out and hand them to him (well . . .ok. . .ok . . .I'd probably throw them at him.)
Regardless of which route you take, I am assuming that he will say, "Mea culpa. You're absolutely correct. I was more culpable than I originally told you. Thank God you now know!" BUT . . .what if he doesn't?? What if he says that the internet got it ALL wrong? What if he stands by his original story? What then?? I'm not saying don't ask the questions . . .but I am saying . . .begin to think through whatever information he gives . . . can you forgive him and move forward together? Or, are there boundaries here?
Hope that something was helpful. Good luck!!!
Lynn
xoxo
Here's my thoughts:
"Plain and simple fraud and embezzlement." Is common in the medical/insurance/pharmacy/addiction/recovery/labs/ banking, etc... and we hear about it in our own communities - town politics - school system - organized crime, etc
(woman takes $1000 to pay for kid's college expenses, and so on)
I wonder if any other exec or his mother were charges w anything - she signed the checks - or if he took the fall for all of them (both of them).
story time: I know someone who, served 3 yrs for selling drugs - was arrested just after high school graduation - this was in 1980. He, his father and brother were selling. It was a family business. they were not addicts. he took the sentence for the 3 of them. the others did not go to prison. He is still married to a friend of mine since... ?1990? two kids, no problems ever with illegal behavior. never an addict. come to think of it, he always worked his own business, probably bc of his record. this is also common. family business, one person take the hit.
"Plain and simple fraud and embezzlement." Is common in the medical/insurance/pharmacy/addiction/recovery/labs/ banking, etc... and we hear about it in our own communities - town politics - school system - organized crime, etc
(woman takes $1000 to pay for kid's college expenses, and so on)
I wonder if any other exec or his mother were charges w anything - she signed the checks - or if he took the fall for all of them (both of them).
story time: I know someone who, served 3 yrs for selling drugs - was arrested just after high school graduation - this was in 1980. He, his father and brother were selling. It was a family business. they were not addicts. he took the sentence for the 3 of them. the others did not go to prison. He is still married to a friend of mine since... ?1990? two kids, no problems ever with illegal behavior. never an addict. come to think of it, he always worked his own business, probably bc of his record. this is also common. family business, one person take the hit.
The Ego -- as for his story painting him to be an unsuspecting participator in the crime:
Everyone has an ego, and the ego is going to make us look OK to others.
He may have been giving you a simple story that did not need every detail.
maybe he has been to prison and thru the court system and didnt want to be on trial again.
About some addicts - they will lie to protect them selves and others and to get money/assistance and it changes depending on what they want you to hear/believe at the time. my son was in a bad car accident a few yrs ago. his drug use was out in the open and we had a chance to talk to him and his friends. They said, they "dont do too much", "they quit", my son "does a lot more", they "are worried about him", they are "trying to help him" these were all blue collar working twenty-five year olds, .... my son said the SAME EXACT things about his friends.
About 12 step program - I do not think people take an oath to never lie for the rest of their lives, so help me God. If people need to lie, they lie.
And maybe those of us who can relate to Leave it to Beaver, fall into the enabling role. Which allows the partner to get their way most of the time.
Your Current Delemia:
Maybe you dont want to be in this relationship anymore. maybe you are not feeling like you are a fair and equal partner. maybe he does not live up to your moral values. This is OK - if someone does not have your values, you do not have to stay w them.
Only you can make a change! YOU can change YOURSELF and what you will accept in your life.
You can not change him or expect him to change. Unless you go to couples therapy and he really is OPEN to change - otherwise, you are both living a lie and trying to change and you will be doing all work at it.
Hope this helps!
Everyone has an ego, and the ego is going to make us look OK to others.
He may have been giving you a simple story that did not need every detail.
maybe he has been to prison and thru the court system and didnt want to be on trial again.
About some addicts - they will lie to protect them selves and others and to get money/assistance and it changes depending on what they want you to hear/believe at the time. my son was in a bad car accident a few yrs ago. his drug use was out in the open and we had a chance to talk to him and his friends. They said, they "dont do too much", "they quit", my son "does a lot more", they "are worried about him", they are "trying to help him" these were all blue collar working twenty-five year olds, .... my son said the SAME EXACT things about his friends.
About 12 step program - I do not think people take an oath to never lie for the rest of their lives, so help me God. If people need to lie, they lie.
And maybe those of us who can relate to Leave it to Beaver, fall into the enabling role. Which allows the partner to get their way most of the time.
Your Current Delemia:
Maybe you dont want to be in this relationship anymore. maybe you are not feeling like you are a fair and equal partner. maybe he does not live up to your moral values. This is OK - if someone does not have your values, you do not have to stay w them.
Only you can make a change! YOU can change YOURSELF and what you will accept in your life.
You can not change him or expect him to change. Unless you go to couples therapy and he really is OPEN to change - otherwise, you are both living a lie and trying to change and you will be doing all work at it.
Hope this helps!
About businesses - there are companies who are middle men in bringing companies who have something to sell together with companies who are looking for something to buy. the middle men company never touches the product.
Insurance fraud - when my son was in a (not so good) sober living home, they submitted to the insurance company drug testing - urnalysis 1 to 3 times a week for $750. the insurance company never paid bc the dummies never billed it with the right codes and always sent it to the wrong insurance company even after I called and told them, and they gave me an attitude.
when I was sorting out all of the insurance claims, drs, I saw a confusing web of claims generated from the sober living, and from several labs. My hunch is that people "pop up" a lab to process "claims" and get $$ from insurance companies....
Insurance company only paid one group of claims. When I called some of the labs to tell them they were billing the wrong ins company, or to see if they received the insurance company's check.... the people on the other end of the phone were not professional like it would be if you called a real insurance company. basically no one knew anything and one person even asked - How did you get this number - it was his personal number - it was on the internet under the company name.....
They probably think they are running a legit business...
Insurance fraud - when my son was in a (not so good) sober living home, they submitted to the insurance company drug testing - urnalysis 1 to 3 times a week for $750. the insurance company never paid bc the dummies never billed it with the right codes and always sent it to the wrong insurance company even after I called and told them, and they gave me an attitude.
when I was sorting out all of the insurance claims, drs, I saw a confusing web of claims generated from the sober living, and from several labs. My hunch is that people "pop up" a lab to process "claims" and get $$ from insurance companies....
Insurance company only paid one group of claims. When I called some of the labs to tell them they were billing the wrong ins company, or to see if they received the insurance company's check.... the people on the other end of the phone were not professional like it would be if you called a real insurance company. basically no one knew anything and one person even asked - How did you get this number - it was his personal number - it was on the internet under the company name.....
They probably think they are running a legit business...
Hi, I would tell him what you found out. Clear the air and get on with your lives. He's been 4 years clean and obviously living a decent life with you. You can't punish someone forever. He's already done his time and paid for his crime let's not hang him again. The longer you linger on this the more it's going to poison the air. Get it all out and get it over with. Good luck. Mary.
Thank you everyone for the words of wisdom.
NyToFlorida-- I don't think there were any executives involved. I think he made that part up to cast some blame else where. I see nothing about anyone other than he and his mother when I read the articles on the case. His mom was charged 7 years and served less than 1, and he was charged 14 years and served 4-5 I believe.
NyToFlorida-- I don't think there were any executives involved. I think he made that part up to cast some blame else where. I see nothing about anyone other than he and his mother when I read the articles on the case. His mom was charged 7 years and served less than 1, and he was charged 14 years and served 4-5 I believe.
WOW - Yes, you have some soul searching to do.... at least you are not in a crisis. If you are not sure about the relationship, start detaching, stretching your wings, regaining your voice. Look to the future and plan a picture of what you want it to look like. Start heading to that goal. You will find out whether he fits into your life plan.
That is good advice. You have nothing to lose by getting some space and taking some time to decide what you want without being in the middle of the relationship.
