Well-I've got through the change over, it wasn't as easy as I was led to believe. I suppose, because I haven't had withdraw symptoms for few years (last 15 mths on meth).
I was to miss out Mondays meth as to be in slight w/d so by Tuesday was feeling bit shaky rang my k/worker see if I can see Dr before my appointed time (2pm), got to see him 12.30pm. I was expexting the Dr to give me the Subutex tablets there & then but alas he gave me a script, I had a 40 min bus ride to chemist and the chemist was closed for dinner, whenever I'm in w/d's an hour can seem like an age. I got to he chemist 2.30, had to take 2 x 4ml tabs, went home and rested, waiting for things to get better, they didn't.
I felt full-blown w/d's coming on the addict in me rearing its ugly head. I went out a bought a bag, smoked it, of course no effect at all (what did I expect), I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, I remembered I had some Sub stashed from way back, checked the expiry date 04/07 I ended up taking another 28mls had a rough night.
Wed.-saw my k/worker told her I felt like sack of s**t, of course not a lot she can do except tell me to hold on in there(what else could I do?). I went to get my day's Sub (16mls) took extra 8mls. I could feel things were getting little better, by Thursday morn feeling alot better, Taken my prescribed 16mls + extra 4mls.
Today I just have that very tired feeling, everything is an effort, but I can deal with that, and I'm hoping to make the day just on my prescribed doseage. I'll give it a good try and jugde it after say a month.
One aspect I didn't take into account was having to carry a card in case of accidents-of course I have an opiate blocker inside of me. I hope this does not put anyone else off going on Subutex, I presume it affects us all different, give it a go.
I've found this site very helpful as I'm wary of meeting(will try again soon)but it is helpful put feeling into words.
Cheers to all
Yo Darkside,greetings to you,i havn't been on this forum for ages but having read your post i thought i'd write and say i know exactly how bad you can feel when doing the changeover from meth to subs.
Last October i came off of 40ml of meth straight onto subs but only left it approx 9 hours in between the two and boy did i suffer,i wouldn't recommend it to anyone.Thought i was gonna die.Hallucinations,throwing up,s***s,convulsions,shivering,sweating,crying out for someont to call me an ambulance cos i was sure my last hour had come.
Seems like you got off likely my friend so stick with it.Unfortunately i caved in that night and had to get a bag and go back onto the methadone.I have detoxed from subutex before and it's so much easier than coming off of meth.
Hope all goes well....Regards
Last October i came off of 40ml of meth straight onto subs but only left it approx 9 hours in between the two and boy did i suffer,i wouldn't recommend it to anyone.Thought i was gonna die.Hallucinations,throwing up,s***s,convulsions,shivering,sweating,crying out for someont to call me an ambulance cos i was sure my last hour had come.
Seems like you got off likely my friend so stick with it.Unfortunately i caved in that night and had to get a bag and go back onto the methadone.I have detoxed from subutex before and it's so much easier than coming off of meth.
Hope all goes well....Regards
Hi darkside, I read your post, and I hope you don't mind, but as someone who did the swap from meth to subs waaaay back in Sept 2004 and am now clean of all opiates since March this year, I thought I'd give you a few pointers to the very different world of subutex. Firstly, I do read about people having a horrible time when they first try subs, but that never happened to me. yes, I was a bit ill for the first two days, but didn't have full blown w/d's and I think the reason is "less is more". I too had to skip a days dose on meth, but by the night before I was due to start my subs I couldn't face the thought of a bad night, so I did a very small bag of h. The next day I was a bit worried coz I wasn't really in withdrawals, but my first days dose was only 4mgs. Full blown w/d's never happened and I coped. The next morning I went to get my next dose of 12mgs and I felt a little better but still didn't have a great night. The next day I was up to my proper dose of 16mgs and I felt fine. Don't try and overload your system with subs, especially if you still have some "real" opiates in your system.
In my experience with subs, if you take too much, you feel like holy crap. Never, ever take more that 32mgs in 24 hrs. Firstly it's pointless, coz subs has a ceiling effect - after 32mgs you don't get any more effect from the drug, and more to the point it makes you feel ill. Don't be tempted to top up with heroin if you are feeling crap - it will make you feel worse. Low doses of subs will still ease the withdrawals. If you add heroin to the mix, your withdrawals will be worse. It only took me three days to settle at the right dose. It takes a little while to build up in your system, so just be patient, coz you will feel better soon.
When you settle after a day or two, just stick to your dose. Don't take extra - you don't get "high" from subs, so there's no point. I stayed at 16mgs for 9 months. It gave me time to sort my life out a bit and make the necessary changes, and get used to life without heroin. When I felt sufficiently confident, I started to reduce. It took me a further 9 months to reduce down and finally stop the subs. Yes, it is a long process, but after nearly a decade of heroin addiction, it was worth the waiting.
Don't forget that although the subs will help you with the physicals, you still have to do a lot of work to make it, if you are serious about getting clean. One thing that I used to have difficulty with in my many failed attempts before I finally got it right, was that you can't go at it half-hearted. you have to be prepared to cut off from all your using friends. I'm prety strong, and had great motivation, but I still can't let myself spend time with active addicts, coz it's playing with fire. I had to move house, where I'd be left in peace, get a new sim for my mobile so nobody would call me. I had good support from the drugs team. Brilliant support actually. But be prepared to be lonely for a while. You go through a stage where you feel like you are just going through the motions, just doing what you have to do, and sometimes you'll feel no enjoyment from it. I had to force myself to just talk to people - to try and make new friends. It felt mechanical and awkward at times. But I did make new friends, and slowly my empty life started to fill up. Ever thought about adult learning? Do a course in something you've always fancied having a go at. Join a club. Develop some of the interests that you heroin addiction robbed you of. You have to be prepared for the pitfalls, and have a plan of how you are going to conquer them.
If your life remains dull and empty then it will make it hard for you to withstand the temptation of the "old life". So you have to keep on implementing your plan, even when it feels like hard work. It's pretty easy to stay clean if you are having fun and enjoying yourself. I'd been operating on the outside of society so long that I feared that "normal" folks would be desperately boring compared to my wild and unconventional life. But I soon realised that lots of "normal" folk have a far more interesting life than mine was. Chasing gear all day every day. Now that is boring. Normal people do different things. They go to gigs and festivals. They go for days out in the country. They go shopping for stuff they want - imagine, going round the shops and actually buying something, instead of lifting it and selling it so you can buy more gear. They go on holiday, they make plans, they actually get things done. They don't spend their lives daydreaming about what they would like to do when they get clean!
I can tell you it looks like a long a hard road, but you have to make a choice. Either you go back to life as a full time addict, or you get yourself clean and sort it out, and start looking forward to a better life. Start working towards happiness. It isn't instant, but you'll never be truely happy, you'll never be able to look yourself in the eye and say that you are proud of yourself, that you feel fulfilled unless you bite the bullet and get it done. The only way out is through. There are no shortcuts, there are no miracles. you have to be your very own miracle. You have the power, my friend, if you choose to accept it.
best wishes
Diff x
In my experience with subs, if you take too much, you feel like holy crap. Never, ever take more that 32mgs in 24 hrs. Firstly it's pointless, coz subs has a ceiling effect - after 32mgs you don't get any more effect from the drug, and more to the point it makes you feel ill. Don't be tempted to top up with heroin if you are feeling crap - it will make you feel worse. Low doses of subs will still ease the withdrawals. If you add heroin to the mix, your withdrawals will be worse. It only took me three days to settle at the right dose. It takes a little while to build up in your system, so just be patient, coz you will feel better soon.
When you settle after a day or two, just stick to your dose. Don't take extra - you don't get "high" from subs, so there's no point. I stayed at 16mgs for 9 months. It gave me time to sort my life out a bit and make the necessary changes, and get used to life without heroin. When I felt sufficiently confident, I started to reduce. It took me a further 9 months to reduce down and finally stop the subs. Yes, it is a long process, but after nearly a decade of heroin addiction, it was worth the waiting.
Don't forget that although the subs will help you with the physicals, you still have to do a lot of work to make it, if you are serious about getting clean. One thing that I used to have difficulty with in my many failed attempts before I finally got it right, was that you can't go at it half-hearted. you have to be prepared to cut off from all your using friends. I'm prety strong, and had great motivation, but I still can't let myself spend time with active addicts, coz it's playing with fire. I had to move house, where I'd be left in peace, get a new sim for my mobile so nobody would call me. I had good support from the drugs team. Brilliant support actually. But be prepared to be lonely for a while. You go through a stage where you feel like you are just going through the motions, just doing what you have to do, and sometimes you'll feel no enjoyment from it. I had to force myself to just talk to people - to try and make new friends. It felt mechanical and awkward at times. But I did make new friends, and slowly my empty life started to fill up. Ever thought about adult learning? Do a course in something you've always fancied having a go at. Join a club. Develop some of the interests that you heroin addiction robbed you of. You have to be prepared for the pitfalls, and have a plan of how you are going to conquer them.
If your life remains dull and empty then it will make it hard for you to withstand the temptation of the "old life". So you have to keep on implementing your plan, even when it feels like hard work. It's pretty easy to stay clean if you are having fun and enjoying yourself. I'd been operating on the outside of society so long that I feared that "normal" folks would be desperately boring compared to my wild and unconventional life. But I soon realised that lots of "normal" folk have a far more interesting life than mine was. Chasing gear all day every day. Now that is boring. Normal people do different things. They go to gigs and festivals. They go for days out in the country. They go shopping for stuff they want - imagine, going round the shops and actually buying something, instead of lifting it and selling it so you can buy more gear. They go on holiday, they make plans, they actually get things done. They don't spend their lives daydreaming about what they would like to do when they get clean!
I can tell you it looks like a long a hard road, but you have to make a choice. Either you go back to life as a full time addict, or you get yourself clean and sort it out, and start looking forward to a better life. Start working towards happiness. It isn't instant, but you'll never be truely happy, you'll never be able to look yourself in the eye and say that you are proud of yourself, that you feel fulfilled unless you bite the bullet and get it done. The only way out is through. There are no shortcuts, there are no miracles. you have to be your very own miracle. You have the power, my friend, if you choose to accept it.
best wishes
Diff x
Cheers Wes & Diff
Diff - I understand what you are saying, I've been an addict for 30 years and this is my last attempt, enough is enough. Honestly, I am giving it my best shot, started back on meth Nov 2005 95mls down to 30mls Nov 2006, now onto Sub managing on 16mls, I've given my k/worker neg samples since Mar, so I am pretty determined this time and at the age of 50 glad I'm still alive, wanting remaining years not looking over my shoulder for police.
The trouble was I paniced after taking the Sub and didn't act rational thus going off to score, taking more Sub all the wrong things, when I look back I can't belive how daft I was, when I think of all the times I have gone through w/d. Things have settled down a lot now, just getting to grips with my thinking machine (brain)
I did seperate myself from the crowd, when I began my detox but being a dealer had addicts knocking my door. So getting new accomadation was a life saver (nice bungalow since Apr) I do agree with you on that. I am doing a computer course and trying to keep occupied so I'm pretty happy with my progress, I do wonder why rush to come off prescribed medication, if it keeps me off the illegal stuff - something to think about.
Cheers to all
Diff - I understand what you are saying, I've been an addict for 30 years and this is my last attempt, enough is enough. Honestly, I am giving it my best shot, started back on meth Nov 2005 95mls down to 30mls Nov 2006, now onto Sub managing on 16mls, I've given my k/worker neg samples since Mar, so I am pretty determined this time and at the age of 50 glad I'm still alive, wanting remaining years not looking over my shoulder for police.
The trouble was I paniced after taking the Sub and didn't act rational thus going off to score, taking more Sub all the wrong things, when I look back I can't belive how daft I was, when I think of all the times I have gone through w/d. Things have settled down a lot now, just getting to grips with my thinking machine (brain)
I did seperate myself from the crowd, when I began my detox but being a dealer had addicts knocking my door. So getting new accomadation was a life saver (nice bungalow since Apr) I do agree with you on that. I am doing a computer course and trying to keep occupied so I'm pretty happy with my progress, I do wonder why rush to come off prescribed medication, if it keeps me off the illegal stuff - something to think about.
Cheers to all
Hi Peter, I remember I had the same feeling of panic and dread when I went onto subs. I think because it is a blocker, it makes the addict within throw a bit of a hissy fit. My naughty little addict hates anyone raining on her parade, and definately stamped her feet and rattled her chains when I started taking a drug that would ensure that she couldn't have her way - instant gratification. It does throw you into momentary panic and makes you feel a little depressed I think. I'll be honest with you - I did go through a stage of cheating, skipping my subs and doing gear instead. But eventually I woke up to myself. Hell, who was I trying to kid? I wasn't cheating the system, the drugworkers, the Drs etc. I was cheating myself. Cheating myself out of a life. The bottom line, is like you, I'd done heroin to death. It had showed me everything it was ever gonna show me. It wasn't going to get better. It was only going to get worse. I wasn't put on this earth to spend all my days as a f***ing junkie. I had more things to do, new adventures to go on, other lives to embark on. And whad'ya know? Cleaned up from the sub in March. By May I'd conceived a new life - the one thing that had driven me more than any other to get clean. I wanted kids. I didn't want to be a junkie mum. All my attempts to have a baby in the past had failed. Now I'm due in 16 weeks. I feel like it's almost a reward. It's karma in action. And it's really helped me stay clean. I mean, if she was a reward for cleaning my act up, then it would be a desecration to use heroin now. It would be like saying I'm not grateful for her. And one thing life as an addict taught me is that you reap what you sow. Never encourage bad karma, especially if you've got something so precious to lose.
You sound like you've got your head in the right place. I think you'll do well. Never forget that it's in your hands and your hands alone. You get it right, and you f*** up. Nobody else will give it to you or take it away from you. It's all about choices. That's a very empowering thought. We addicts are very good at cutting off our noses to spite our faces, so you need to learn to value yourself, and love yourself. Just coz you've done bad things doesn't make you a bad person. You need to make the peace with yourself, coz we addicts seem to be at war with ourselves most of the time. So call a truce, and move on. Bigger and better things await you, trust me.
love
Diff x
You sound like you've got your head in the right place. I think you'll do well. Never forget that it's in your hands and your hands alone. You get it right, and you f*** up. Nobody else will give it to you or take it away from you. It's all about choices. That's a very empowering thought. We addicts are very good at cutting off our noses to spite our faces, so you need to learn to value yourself, and love yourself. Just coz you've done bad things doesn't make you a bad person. You need to make the peace with yourself, coz we addicts seem to be at war with ourselves most of the time. So call a truce, and move on. Bigger and better things await you, trust me.
love
Diff x
