Haven't visited in a couple of days,looked in this a.m. & saw lots of posts about folks trying to cure themselves w/ pills, subutex off the street, 'Done,etc. I recall reading Wm. Burroughs Naked Lunch, in a paperback, & @ the end it had another chapter.This was Burroughs' letter to the London College of Physicians, detailing(boy does he detail!) his experiences using various drugs to try & cure his smack habit. It makes very interesting reading, & may be on the Net @ some Burroughs'Fan Site. He tells of what it is like withdrawing & being on acid @ the same time (Absolutely wretched, if I recall correctly), using pot & hash to ease withdrawl pain (doesn't do much) and sadly the conclusion he seems to draw is, there is NOTHING out there that is a "Magic Bullet"-Cold turkey, after getting yr. tolerance down as low as poss. IS the only way to go.That is before subutex & the Modern Stuff but I have a sneaking suspicion it may hold true. Ol'William knew whereof he spoke as far as addiction is concerned.Anyone else read this thing by him?
Many times when I was using I would try the old take my self down sowly thing. Try to do less and less everyday NEVER WORKERD for me, or the 8 or so other addicts I know who tried to ween themselfs off. I've heard of the naked lunch thing before never read it. In the past I coud only cold turky 3 days before I had to get some. I know you don't like to hear it but, I belive without going to the methadone clinic I could not have stoped this long. Yes, the methadone had a ton of it's own probems but, it helped. As for the people who post about getting subutex and done on the streets I don't understant why exacty "well I do and don't" The cinic I went to is AWAYS excepting new patients they give both done and subutex CHEAPER then street cost. I know it's better then H and if you have no other option well, then ok "i'm not passing judement" but, usually you can find a clinic. Also I know someone caught buying methadone on the street the judge cared none that it was to come off H and to try to get clean, he still went to JAIL. If a person can get clean by bringing tolerence down alone MY hats off to em. My biggest problem coming down prior to methadone "sometimes still" was cravings. Low tolerence dose nothing to stop those CRAVINGS. Man I bet it sucked for Burroughs being dope sick and tripping on acid. Whenever I was sick and would do coke it would kick in the heroin sickness FULL force.
OMG I just read that.....
A Letter From The Master Addict To Dangerous Drugs.
What a trip that was. I found it by pure accident feeding my need for information and looking into histamine responses caused by opiates.
Found it to be a real interesting read.
Have a great night,
Love,
Tina
A Letter From The Master Addict To Dangerous Drugs.
What a trip that was. I found it by pure accident feeding my need for information and looking into histamine responses caused by opiates.
Found it to be a real interesting read.
Have a great night,
Love,
Tina
I have done a home detox b4 and this was without meth,b4 subbies. I went 280 miles away from my main haunt and stayed in a little village ( so that even if i wa nted , i couldn't score ) . I took 40 vallies, medication 4 anti-nausea , diahorria , vit-c , and couple of others and after 10 days i was fit 2 go home . My mam watched over me on my worst night ( 2 my knowledge i only had 1 bad night , ask my mother and it was 2-3 ).but i don't think it was that bad. i was comin off about 2 bags a day and had been addict 4 about 6 years so that just makes me believe that if u want 2 home detox , you have 2 go away.Half of it is in your mind and if u know u can't get anything then that is half the battle. I may b wrong but that is just one of my attempts. hugs , herman......
Alaska..........
While many critics often question Burrough's literary merit, observing that much of his work is mundane rambling that encourages and glorifies a world of drugs and immorality. Others admire him for his artistic integrity
Like a big part big part of the beat generation,a generation that was full of characters, from Kerouc to Ginsburg,most of his writings centered around the underworld and drug sub-cultures .
Not that his writings should be taken any less serious now,after all with the book and movie Naked Lunch ,he did achieve ledgendery cult status,however
I think he found a very sympathetic community of homosexuals and drug users.
So while I find his writings interesting,I believe he was another tortured soul stuck in a world of drug abuse and decadance. - but unlike the vultures of today he didnt try to deceive ,and profit from his troubled life.- Again integrity muchlove & respect
jack
While many critics often question Burrough's literary merit, observing that much of his work is mundane rambling that encourages and glorifies a world of drugs and immorality. Others admire him for his artistic integrity
Like a big part big part of the beat generation,a generation that was full of characters, from Kerouc to Ginsburg,most of his writings centered around the underworld and drug sub-cultures .
Not that his writings should be taken any less serious now,after all with the book and movie Naked Lunch ,he did achieve ledgendery cult status,however
I think he found a very sympathetic community of homosexuals and drug users.
So while I find his writings interesting,I believe he was another tortured soul stuck in a world of drug abuse and decadance. - but unlike the vultures of today he didnt try to deceive ,and profit from his troubled life.- Again integrity muchlove & respect
jack
haha, anybody who has read and understood burroughs knows
that he does not encourage or glorify the use of
opiates, whatsoever!
if anything he encourages you to be
educated about your drug use / abuse.
by reading his works can give you
a literary high that can almost
make you
feel as if you're
on opiates.
=))) !!
that he does not encourage or glorify the use of
opiates, whatsoever!
if anything he encourages you to be
educated about your drug use / abuse.
by reading his works can give you
a literary high that can almost
make you
feel as if you're
on opiates.
=))) !!
] I said crictics of WB- I happen to be a fan
peace,
jack
peace,
jack
yo jack, i wasnt speaking to anyone in particular!
Hi there, I love a literary conversation. The very first thing I ever read by Burroughs was Interzone. Interzone has to be biggest influence there ever has been on my writing. He taught me that the the feeling behind the writing, the honesty that shines through is more important than anything else. Life is sometimes crazy - as someone who was suffering from deep seated and at the time untreated paranoid psychosis - the craziness, the blurry lines, the daggerlike truths, the ability to walk the line between psychosis and reality and describe to me exactly how the world felt to me was incredibly appealing, and as far as my writing went it set me free. I was no longer bound by what was possible, what was likely or what was "real". My world was defined by things that were not real, and at last I found an author who completely abandoned the rules, and just told it like it was. It made me feel I had an ally, someone as eminently f***ed up as me, who had the courage to come out and say how life is for those of us who live in a world of warped fantasy, distorted reality etc. And he showed me that our world is alluring and interesting and fascinating, and perhaps I shouldn't be feeling the deep, soulscouring, livid self loathing that I did, and perhaps I should make and attempt to put "my world" f***ed up as it was on paper, and just let it fly, to have no barriers, no sense of decency, no feeling of restraint. f*** what happened to me WAS indecent. It WAS f***edUpBeyondAllRecognition, and I was afraid to give those horrific innerrealities life in the form of expression. Burroughs told me, LOUD AND CLEAR that talent (which I have in spades) doesn't have to be confined by rules. In fact, true genius is only given it's head when the rule book is burnt. A new paradigm is only born when rules, literary or otherwise, are broken. Burroughs taught me something so valuable. I am special. I am unique. My f***edupness only makes me more so. Put my head up high, and tell the world to kiss my muthafXXcking arse, coz they ain't no better than me, and I should be glad that I have a window on the otherworld, and my deepestsickest beliefs can be expressed, in any words that I like, and I don't have to be ashamed. The stuff I wrote after reading Interzone was exquisit. I was only 17, and I go back and read it now, and I am in awe of myself.
If you read any Sylvia Plath poems, you will notice that the poems she wrote immediately prior to her suicide had an burning intensity that only comes from a fractured mind. The sicker she got, the more brilliant she got. Human creativity is borne of human pain. I like to exploit that. Unfortunately, the older I've got, the more rational I've become, and I think that has made me somehow tame. I don't want to be tame. I want to be blue chip cutting edge. But you can't live on that kind of a knife edge if you want to make it past your 30th birthday...
love
Diff ;-)
If you read any Sylvia Plath poems, you will notice that the poems she wrote immediately prior to her suicide had an burning intensity that only comes from a fractured mind. The sicker she got, the more brilliant she got. Human creativity is borne of human pain. I like to exploit that. Unfortunately, the older I've got, the more rational I've become, and I think that has made me somehow tame. I don't want to be tame. I want to be blue chip cutting edge. But you can't live on that kind of a knife edge if you want to make it past your 30th birthday...
love
Diff ;-)
i haven't read interzone, i will have to stop by the library this
evening, it's time i get out of this hole i'm in and start
reading again. (i'm 2 1/2 weeks clean of opiates. i believe
in self-help/self-medication. i had to move away from my
boyfriend and untangle myself from the nasty web we got
ourselves caught in. i went cold turkey. i do not
believe in using drugs to get off drugs. it just prolongs
the "addiction". if you wanna/gotta do it, YOU gotta
do it. i also choose not to choose NA because i can
not stand such commitments, i do not believe in group
support. i believe one should stand on their own feet
and make decisions on their own; i have found that NA attracts
this certain kind of person- it gives people this particular NA attitude that
is not very respectable.
(my father went to NA for about 30 years,
it kept him clean for little while, but he
would always "relapse")
i would rather go to an art museum or walk my dogs
rather than get caught up in the bullcrap NA feeds people.
i'm not saying NA is wrong, hell, it works for some people..and
if they stick by it, good for them. but i'd rather spend my
evenings laying in the grass and making wishes off dandelions
rather than sit in a circle and share my drug stories with people.
i'd rather forget about the drug stories and go on with LIFE.
i can't help i think like this, maybe i am being very closeminded,
ridiculous, ignorant, whatever...(i've been called all these before
when i discouraged my boyfriends dedication to NA. him and his
mother said i was unsupportive of his decision to come clean, and
cut me out of their lives-- even though i was attempting to stay clean.
i just seriously believe NA ain't my bag)
the situation upsets me very much. currently my boyfriend is visiting
a methadone clinic, which i believe he is only doing in order to
get high. he has manipulated his mother into driving him to the
methadone clinic each morning to get him his daily high. (she thinks
he is coming off large amounts of opiates and NEEDS something to
help his withdrawals) truth is, there are no withdrawals, he admits
he feels fine and only goes because it gives him something to
look forward to. this bothers
me to the point of insanity because i know he does not need it. i know
that the low doses that we were taking/injecting/snorting (20mg oxycontin 4-5 nights a week)
only requires willpower to get off the stuff. he certainly does not
need 40mg of methadone a day to kick the habit we barely had.
his mother is completely ignorant of his addiction, i can not blame her
because her son is not truthful to her.
sorry to go off on a tangent, but seriously, this has bothering me
and i think maybe i have found some people on the same
wavelength as me who can give me worthy advice. or a similar story.
i think about avoiding him because i really dont approve
of his decision to go to the methadone clinic, i think it is silly.
it shows me he really isnt interested in (really) being clean. i hate
how different he acts when he calls me up after he's gotten
his medication. i hate how in denial and in the shadows
his mother is to his addiction. sometimes i think they
have a secret love affair going on, it's very creepy.
i don't know, maybe i'm just too young to understand.
somebody say something, please.
i've read naked lunch and q****, junky completes the trilogy. i don't know
which order they are supposed to be read in, it's been nearly 3 years since
i've picked up any Burroughs.....
evening, it's time i get out of this hole i'm in and start
reading again. (i'm 2 1/2 weeks clean of opiates. i believe
in self-help/self-medication. i had to move away from my
boyfriend and untangle myself from the nasty web we got
ourselves caught in. i went cold turkey. i do not
believe in using drugs to get off drugs. it just prolongs
the "addiction". if you wanna/gotta do it, YOU gotta
do it. i also choose not to choose NA because i can
not stand such commitments, i do not believe in group
support. i believe one should stand on their own feet
and make decisions on their own; i have found that NA attracts
this certain kind of person- it gives people this particular NA attitude that
is not very respectable.
(my father went to NA for about 30 years,
it kept him clean for little while, but he
would always "relapse")
i would rather go to an art museum or walk my dogs
rather than get caught up in the bullcrap NA feeds people.
i'm not saying NA is wrong, hell, it works for some people..and
if they stick by it, good for them. but i'd rather spend my
evenings laying in the grass and making wishes off dandelions
rather than sit in a circle and share my drug stories with people.
i'd rather forget about the drug stories and go on with LIFE.
i can't help i think like this, maybe i am being very closeminded,
ridiculous, ignorant, whatever...(i've been called all these before
when i discouraged my boyfriends dedication to NA. him and his
mother said i was unsupportive of his decision to come clean, and
cut me out of their lives-- even though i was attempting to stay clean.
i just seriously believe NA ain't my bag)
the situation upsets me very much. currently my boyfriend is visiting
a methadone clinic, which i believe he is only doing in order to
get high. he has manipulated his mother into driving him to the
methadone clinic each morning to get him his daily high. (she thinks
he is coming off large amounts of opiates and NEEDS something to
help his withdrawals) truth is, there are no withdrawals, he admits
he feels fine and only goes because it gives him something to
look forward to. this bothers
me to the point of insanity because i know he does not need it. i know
that the low doses that we were taking/injecting/snorting (20mg oxycontin 4-5 nights a week)
only requires willpower to get off the stuff. he certainly does not
need 40mg of methadone a day to kick the habit we barely had.
his mother is completely ignorant of his addiction, i can not blame her
because her son is not truthful to her.
sorry to go off on a tangent, but seriously, this has bothering me
and i think maybe i have found some people on the same
wavelength as me who can give me worthy advice. or a similar story.
i think about avoiding him because i really dont approve
of his decision to go to the methadone clinic, i think it is silly.
it shows me he really isnt interested in (really) being clean. i hate
how different he acts when he calls me up after he's gotten
his medication. i hate how in denial and in the shadows
his mother is to his addiction. sometimes i think they
have a secret love affair going on, it's very creepy.
i don't know, maybe i'm just too young to understand.
somebody say something, please.
i've read naked lunch and q****, junky completes the trilogy. i don't know
which order they are supposed to be read in, it's been nearly 3 years since
i've picked up any Burroughs.....
that was posted by me.
Hi id.girl- sorry,at 5am I didnt know ,who was talkin to who.
Anyway I agee -WB certainly knew about addiction and never glorified his drug use at all.
Many of the "Beats" of those days did ,and died way too young.
Burroughs I believe was well into his 80,s before he died.
So much great writing came out of this time- a wackey group in a era of innocence.
seeya**
jack
Anyway I agee -WB certainly knew about addiction and never glorified his drug use at all.
Many of the "Beats" of those days did ,and died way too young.
Burroughs I believe was well into his 80,s before he died.
So much great writing came out of this time- a wackey group in a era of innocence.
seeya**
jack
Well we all know I am a elitist, literary critic, and I am educated, and I ponder great writings........NOT......I read Burroughs, and could not tell you a dang thing I got out of it....see I wanted more the guy who wrote Trainspotting....whatever his name is...see i don't retain a thing.
I liked that dude Hunter Thompson because he got his ashes shot out of a cannon....I mean come on.....plus running around with firearms when he was tripping.....who can beat that......if it's not simplified, and way far out crazy I don't want none of it......so you all just toss around Burroughs.
I will now referr to Poe, and his opiate addiction....how he got stuck up in that attic......oh, and Bella Legosi, and Carmen Maranda.....poor lady had to keep her works in her shoes...those platforms.....during one really bad kick....O.K. what one ain't.....my mom was getting PO'd at me....she says you think you invented heroin? Uhhhhhhh yeah Ma I made it up chemically in the lab...she goes on to tell me all about poor Charlie Parker and how he pawned his horn DAILY.....then comes into my smelly, kick room, dungeon with pictures of Chet Baker......BEFORE/AFTER........so there ya go....who ain't been in our hell right? I rather listen then read......then ya know the pictures during a fit.
I liked that dude Hunter Thompson because he got his ashes shot out of a cannon....I mean come on.....plus running around with firearms when he was tripping.....who can beat that......if it's not simplified, and way far out crazy I don't want none of it......so you all just toss around Burroughs.
I will now referr to Poe, and his opiate addiction....how he got stuck up in that attic......oh, and Bella Legosi, and Carmen Maranda.....poor lady had to keep her works in her shoes...those platforms.....during one really bad kick....O.K. what one ain't.....my mom was getting PO'd at me....she says you think you invented heroin? Uhhhhhhh yeah Ma I made it up chemically in the lab...she goes on to tell me all about poor Charlie Parker and how he pawned his horn DAILY.....then comes into my smelly, kick room, dungeon with pictures of Chet Baker......BEFORE/AFTER........so there ya go....who ain't been in our hell right? I rather listen then read......then ya know the pictures during a fit.
Hi idiot girl (can I call you something else, that sounds so awful...) I know where you are at, I really do, coz I used to feel exactly the same way about my ex. When he went out and scored, and tried to keep it from me (you can't s*** a s***ter...) I would go absolutely ballistic. It did my head in beyond endurance. I never went for the NA stuff either. I was forced into going to a few meetings when I was in rehab, and I hated the way they tried to coerce me into doingthings their way, and rubbished my way. And hey, I'm clean now, so my way cant be all that bad, can it? But amongst all the bull, their are some truths, which I have found out in retrospect.
What you need to grasp for your own sanity is that you b/f's actions are beyond your control. All your screaming, crying and hurt just opens up a chasm in between you. It's not about winning and losing. You cannot win this one. He has to do his own thing, and it only causes you more pain if you agonise and stress over his actions. If you can't deal with it, then the only thing that you can do to preserve your peace of mind is WALK. You need to learn to concentrate on YOU. Do what you think is right for you, and for God's sake, let go. Just let it go. Next time you feel the anger rising in your chest, take a big deep breath and say to yourself "It's his funeral...". Just let him do whatever he wants, coz you can't stop him anyway. Concentrate on the things that you CAN do something about. You. You cannot afford your happiness to rely on his actions. It is the most liberating feeling when you just stop dragging that huge burden around with you. And remember it cuts both ways. He can't do anything from stopping you going about your business. The best thing you could do to for both of you, is for you to start persuing your own dreams and goals, and don't let him hold you back. You know what you want for you. So just get out there and do it. Take advantage of your new found freedom.
With me, I had to leave my b/f of 7 years. Yes it was painful, but it also set me free. And on those days when he was wangling more scripts, making sure he was doped out of his head, and completely mangled, I would think to myself, "Yeah, you have junk coming out of your ears. Good for you. Do what you like. I have a LIFE!" And the more space I got from him, the less his actions bothered me, and the better I felt.
Be your own person. you can't control him, and you will only suffer in the trying.
love
Diff x
What you need to grasp for your own sanity is that you b/f's actions are beyond your control. All your screaming, crying and hurt just opens up a chasm in between you. It's not about winning and losing. You cannot win this one. He has to do his own thing, and it only causes you more pain if you agonise and stress over his actions. If you can't deal with it, then the only thing that you can do to preserve your peace of mind is WALK. You need to learn to concentrate on YOU. Do what you think is right for you, and for God's sake, let go. Just let it go. Next time you feel the anger rising in your chest, take a big deep breath and say to yourself "It's his funeral...". Just let him do whatever he wants, coz you can't stop him anyway. Concentrate on the things that you CAN do something about. You. You cannot afford your happiness to rely on his actions. It is the most liberating feeling when you just stop dragging that huge burden around with you. And remember it cuts both ways. He can't do anything from stopping you going about your business. The best thing you could do to for both of you, is for you to start persuing your own dreams and goals, and don't let him hold you back. You know what you want for you. So just get out there and do it. Take advantage of your new found freedom.
With me, I had to leave my b/f of 7 years. Yes it was painful, but it also set me free. And on those days when he was wangling more scripts, making sure he was doped out of his head, and completely mangled, I would think to myself, "Yeah, you have junk coming out of your ears. Good for you. Do what you like. I have a LIFE!" And the more space I got from him, the less his actions bothered me, and the better I felt.
Be your own person. you can't control him, and you will only suffer in the trying.
love
Diff x
Whoa! Didn't know I'd start such a whirlwind of discussion w/ a mention of Burroughs but I think it's great, & I agree he never glorified his drug use;I almost felt it was like war reportage in a way, just the facts & ugliness of addiction, because @ the time no one had ever really written about it in America. I read "Junky" first which was published around the late 40's/early50's I think--anyhow, I had NO CLUE there were such creatures around & about in America then. I had somehow presumed Heroin addiction was some Abberration of the Hippies but I know better now. Also read (this is recently) "Boxcar Bertha" a memoir of a sorta hard-luck gal, in the 20's & 30's--her adventures w/ Wobblies, Trade Union organizers, ridin the freights--Hard Times in America. SHE talks about cooking down opium poppies (folks used to have them in their gardens as flowers) on wood-burning stoves, cooking up gloppy goo & consuming it, somehow--smoking it or drinking it as a tea, I can't recall. But that book is a trip, too! Just goes to show this stuff's been around a lot longer than us...
You know that you've got me re-reading Interzone, don't you? It's like a pre-incarnation of Junky, it's what Junky came from, and it was published in 1989, when previously unpublished Burroughs notes and letters to Ginsberg were found. And like all Burroughs writing, it has a dreamlike quality. It's mad, coz the last time I read it, I had never touched heroin (I was 16/17 in 1989) and now I'm reading it with true understanding, and the things that I could never quite grasp before have a new found clarity. It's brave, it's so very brave. It takes courage to write with such honesty and lack of self-consciousness, when dealing with something so very personal, and it's almost like being invited to take a good look inside someones head, and give judgement on what you find there. Something which I try to emulate in my writing, but feel utterly terrified by it! But hey, that's me...
love
Diff xxx
love
Diff xxx
It's like he was able to describe his Nods, & that is why his writing has such a flow,scope & craziness..You know how you get a sorta movie in yr. head, & you can direct it any way u like? But all the while yr just sorta layin there w/ yr eyes closed?I think he was able to tap into that,& describe it.
Hi Alaska, I especially like the way he describes the various phases of being gouched (nods), being over-smacked up, being dope sick etc. Like when you wake up in the morning and you're starting to cluck, but since you can't get hold of any gear, you just sort of lie there, trying to "be asleep", and you get this whirl of images in your head, sort of uncomfortable dreaming, when you get these flashes, like a haphazard film, just hastily put together random scenes. And that sort of feeling of horror, as you contemplate your situation, feeling completely hopeless. I find he conveys it on so many levels, from the words he uses to the random structure of his writing. Interzone is really interesting to me, coz although much of it has been rehashed in Junky, some of it is written after Junky, and after Joan's death, and he is looking back on it, and explaining how he feels about it, and how he feels about himself, and his part in it and the world. He homes in on that feeling of spinning in infinity that you get when you're caught up in addiction.
OK, that's enough literary reviews for one day... (LOL)
love
Diff xxx
OK, that's enough literary reviews for one day... (LOL)
love
Diff xxx
