I am not sure any of you can help me, but I think I'll feel better just talking about this.
It's my mom. She had a leg amputation in 1965, and suffers from severe muscle spasms in her "stump". Lately, she has spent most days literally crying due to the pain she is in.
She's on phentanyl patches (75 mg)), toradol 4 x day, relafen, topamax, neurotin (3xday), and xanex (.25 twice daily). One would think that that would be enough, but apparently it isn't.
We had arranged a surprise birthday brunch for her yesterday, with 15 family members attending. She was out of it when I picked her up, but I thought she'd come to before we arrived at the restaurant 1 hour away. Well, she only got worse. What would have/should have been a very festive occasion was a huge letdown as she slurred her way through lunch, had food hanging out of her mouth, and eventually fell asleep at the table. The grandchildren present were all asking "what's wrong with Grandma?" as they are not used to seeing her like this.
After a while, my SIL took me aside and confessed to me that mom had told her she'd been getting extra xanex sent to her by her sister in the mail, and had asked her not to tell me.
We have been over this with the dr., and he's told her that
1. xanex really have little effect on her leg muscles
2. due to her very low blood pressure her dose is sufficient
3. with everything else she is taking.....he will NOT up her xanex RX!!! But she isn't going to let a little thing like a dr. get in her way.
I was so pissed off and hurt to find out that she had gone behind my back to get extra drugs! People have been asking me lately why she sounds so drunk all of the time and I have defended her because I thought I knew all that she was taking and thought that it was only what the dr. has RXed. It just never occured to me that she was abusing. OMG, she is 76 years old, and has never abused anything. She has probably never drank more than a dozen cocktails in her life, has never smoked, and now I am watching her turn into an addict!
When she first moved here 16 months ago, she was on a pile of muscle relaxers. I got her off of them, and she has thanked me repeatedly for doing so. Her life was a mess because she couldn't handle her affairs due to all the drugs she was on. She has now gotten as bad as she was then, but she just won;t see it.
She and I had an argument after the party, when she denied getting the extra pills. I gave her every opprotunity to fess up, she lied, I called her sister right in front of her, my aunt told me the truth and then my mom just turned around and attacked me for judging her when I called her a liar.
Do you think she's addicted? She's been on 2 xanex a day for about a year.
Should I just let her continue to abuse the meds for her pain? She doesn't drive, all she does is lay around in pain, 24/7, and although I hate to see her high, I don't guess it's hurting anyone if it's helping her to feel better.
At the same time, it's very dangerous for her to be upping her dose for the reasons stated above. What should I do? Should I tell her dr? Should I take away the extra xanex she has?
Thank you for anything you have to offer! I have never taken xanex, and really know very little about them, other than what I have learned here. Thanks!
Hi Carol, At her age I feel you should definitely intervene, eldery are so much more frail than we realize even when she is raging at you. I never faced that problem with my mom but she was not on alot of meds like that. I was totally responsible for what she got daily and if your mom is taking things behind your back, you have to stop it. This sounds really dangerous and it looks like you are the only one really stepping up here. Let your mom be mad but at least you know she will be safe.
Take care
Carol
Take care
Carol
Yes, I know I have to intervene and since I wrote this I have made up my mind to do so. I am going to her house tomorrow and take away the extra pills. I know I can not just take her off of the xanex aprubtly, and I won't, but I will take the extras she has away, and I am going to definitely talk to her dr. about all of this.
Well, maybe I shouldn't tell the dr. about her getting extra xanex...he might make her taper off completely, and despite all the trouble they're causing, I know she is in severe pain, and that they do help her somewhat.
I have never dealt with such pain, and I do not know what to do for her about it. Six different meds to handle it, and she's still hurting. It just seems like there'd be something out there to help her, but there doesn't seem to be.
How are you? I am glad you're about to move and restart your life. I hope you're feeling better lately. (((hugs))) Thank you for responding.
Carol Pain is an awful situation to have to watch your mom go through and be responsible for her care.
I would think the logical thing to do is go tho her doctor and explain whats going on.
Your in a tough spot and xanax is very addictive. Maybe her doc can explain to her there are longer lasting benzos that may help her with her pain?
A doctor should be involved if she has gone from .25-.5 up to mg as it only gets worse. And benzos used just alone are very dangerous.
Sounds like her doctor is a good one. Call him
Jeff
I would think the logical thing to do is go tho her doctor and explain whats going on.
Your in a tough spot and xanax is very addictive. Maybe her doc can explain to her there are longer lasting benzos that may help her with her pain?
A doctor should be involved if she has gone from .25-.5 up to mg as it only gets worse. And benzos used just alone are very dangerous.
Sounds like her doctor is a good one. Call him
Jeff
She has a good family dr., but her pain dr. is just like any other pain dr.
He listens, says little, then writes the scripts. The family dr. gives her the xanex, but he knows all that she's taking because I am always there with her and tell him.
Thanks Jeff. I will call him tomorrow. I have no doubt she has become dependent, and probably always will be, but I have to put an end to the abuse, and I will do all I can to do that.
I truly am just hurt that after all I have done for her, she lied to me. I'll get over it. It's just kind of ironic that I am in such a situation, with my mom, of all people.
I am glad you are going to take care of it. As far as me some days are better than others. It is very overwhelming to go thru everything and get it ready to move. I especially missed her today. Easter was a thing for us.
Let me know what happens
Carol
Let me know what happens
Carol
I'm sorry Carol. I suspect she is dependant on them and probably addicted. She is showing signs of addictive behavior. I don't think age has anything do with it. It can happen to anyone. Tell on her. Get her dr involved and stay on top of it. If she lives alone and has access to her meds, she runs the risk of over dose. Benzo's are nothing to fool with. I'm just curious... how do you handle being around her and her meds? The reason I ask is because when I go to my mom's there's always pain pills in the house and it used to really screw with my head. The last time I was there, there was a bottle of 120 Vicodin ES sitting on the counter. I got a little squirrley.
Your mama needs you. Roles have been reversed.. it's up to you to make sure she's ok. If you need an ear, you know where to find me.
Your mama needs you. Roles have been reversed.. it's up to you to make sure she's ok. If you need an ear, you know where to find me.
Carol, I just wanted to offer you some support and tell you that I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. After all, it isn't every day that we hear on this board of a recovering addict having to deal with a parent's addiction issues, as usually it is a child or a spouse. The only way I can relate is to remember that my brother-in-law's grandmother was addicted to pain meds. They had to do a hospital detox on her. She needed the meds for legitimate reasons but then ended up abusing them.
It must be so difficult because she obviously needs pain control. It sounds like she's been on them for some time so the tolerance issue comes into play. Although it was only for a few weeks, I know how painful it is to watch a loved one suffer and hurt so much. I can't imagine trying to decide if she's crossed that line between the need for relief and addiction. That's really heartbreaking. Is she running out of her pain meds early?
And, like Lisa said, how do you deal with being around all of that? Especially when a stressful situation like this arises. I admire you, Carol, for your strength and courage. I know that you do it because of the love you feel for your mom but it must be really tough.
I am not qualified to give any advice here, I just wanted you to know that I really feel for what you are going through. If it were me, I think I'd talk to her primary care doctor about what's going on. She may be less inclined to get angry with him...therefore, she might be able have a more objective view on everything.
It must be so difficult because she obviously needs pain control. It sounds like she's been on them for some time so the tolerance issue comes into play. Although it was only for a few weeks, I know how painful it is to watch a loved one suffer and hurt so much. I can't imagine trying to decide if she's crossed that line between the need for relief and addiction. That's really heartbreaking. Is she running out of her pain meds early?
And, like Lisa said, how do you deal with being around all of that? Especially when a stressful situation like this arises. I admire you, Carol, for your strength and courage. I know that you do it because of the love you feel for your mom but it must be really tough.
I am not qualified to give any advice here, I just wanted you to know that I really feel for what you are going through. If it were me, I think I'd talk to her primary care doctor about what's going on. She may be less inclined to get angry with him...therefore, she might be able have a more objective view on everything.
Xanax mixed with Duragesic patches could be lethal if she's taking a lot.75 mg. is a substantial dose of opiates + extra benzo's + 76 years old could equal respitory failure.I would definitely get her doctor involved.He might taper her off the Xanax a bit but I doubt he will take her off completely if she needs it.
Originally when OxyContin was introduced there were a lot of deaths attributed to it.The problem was people were mixing it with Xanax and other tranquilizers.
It would be the same thing with Fentanyl,Morphine or any other high powered opiate.If you put a tranquilizer or muscle relaxer on top of it,it can have a synergistic effect.One of the effects of Xanax is respitory depression as is with opiates.
I don't know how much I would interfere with her meds Carol except to notify her doctor.He might have some legitimate reasons to have her on that combination.
I think the problem sounds like the additional Xanax she's getting.That could definitely be addressed.
Good Luck
Originally when OxyContin was introduced there were a lot of deaths attributed to it.The problem was people were mixing it with Xanax and other tranquilizers.
It would be the same thing with Fentanyl,Morphine or any other high powered opiate.If you put a tranquilizer or muscle relaxer on top of it,it can have a synergistic effect.One of the effects of Xanax is respitory depression as is with opiates.
I don't know how much I would interfere with her meds Carol except to notify her doctor.He might have some legitimate reasons to have her on that combination.
I think the problem sounds like the additional Xanax she's getting.That could definitely be addressed.
Good Luck
Thinking of you Carol and of mom...
I am glad that you are calling the doctor, it seems the only option... I have that same concern as Tim the combination of meds and respiratory distress, and yet I want to know know why...why the extra xanax, what is she seeking out through it.
Have you talked to her at all about why she wants the extras, what she thinks they are doing to make her quality of life better...because from what you described this doesn't seem like living but shutting off...
Love,
Tina
I am glad that you are calling the doctor, it seems the only option... I have that same concern as Tim the combination of meds and respiratory distress, and yet I want to know know why...why the extra xanax, what is she seeking out through it.
Have you talked to her at all about why she wants the extras, what she thinks they are doing to make her quality of life better...because from what you described this doesn't seem like living but shutting off...
Love,
Tina
I went over there early this morning before she had a chance to take her meds and get high. I took away the extras.....57 .5 xanex. I told her I was going to treat her with dignity and give her the opportunity to give them to me of her own free will, or else I would take them. She handed them over. That does not mean she hasn't hid some elsewhere, but I will know if she's loaded later.
Tina, She said they relax her muscles which in turn lessens the spasms. Makes sense, but she can't continue to mix all of these drugs.
She's having surgery Thursday to close up her pressure wound and after that, we're going to the dr. and sit down with him and try to get a new regiment planned. This is just ridiculous. I know she is in real pain, and maybe we can come up with some new mix to help her with his help. No more self medicating, though.
Thanks guys. It is so great to have your input on this.
Carol,
The trouble with xanax is our bodies get used to them quickly and it takes more and more for them to do what they did when we first started taking them. I think they are worse than opiates in that respect. I'm willing to bet if she gave them to you so willingly she has some stashed. Don't forget stopping benzos can cause seizures. You might not want to have her stop the xanax abruptly.
The trouble with xanax is our bodies get used to them quickly and it takes more and more for them to do what they did when we first started taking them. I think they are worse than opiates in that respect. I'm willing to bet if she gave them to you so willingly she has some stashed. Don't forget stopping benzos can cause seizures. You might not want to have her stop the xanax abruptly.
Hiya Carol ~
Long time no hear from and wow I've missed talking with you.
You mentioned your mum had her leg amputated in 1965. Having never had a limb amputated, I can only imagine the anxiety/depression that could accompany such a procedure - especially as one ages and their mobility/agility decreases.
What I know about Xanax is that this is a drug that is prescribed for anxiety, which I believe comes more from an emotional rather than a physical pain. I'm not sure how or what level of anxiety I would feel after losing my leg - despite the fact that there have been some miraculous strides of progress made in the past 40+ years to empower those who are amputees.
Xanax, as you well know, is a drug that should not be stopped abruptly. My experience with stopping Xanax abruptly resulted in grand mal seizures and for the ensuing 10 years after having those seizures, I was placed on anti-epileptics. I'm wondering Carol if a psychiatrist should be added to your mum's treating team of physicians. I don't know how much a pain doctor or family doctor address the emotional aspects of her disability (and I don't mean just by just handing out scripts for Xanax.) Perhaps, it would be some avail to her to see a psychiatrist so she can talk about how she feels living without her leg; the limitations, and impact it has had on her life. Also, since Xanax is a psychiatric medicine, shouldn't it be prescribed, and her use monitored/determined under the care of a psychiatrist? There may be other/newer psychiatric drugs out there that are more beneficial to her than Xanax - maybe not - but until a full psychiatric evaluation can be done, how will she know.
Additionally, due to her age and physical limitations, maybe adding a physical therapist and/or occupational therapist would help her with what I am sure are some major frustrations she may be feeling. My mum is your mother's age too, and although she has not lost a limb or on any anti-anxiety medications, I sense/hear the frustration in her voice when she relates things she is physically unable to do that she used to do as recent as 5 years ago.
These are just a few thoughts that popped into my head, as I read your message this morning. Please stay in touch and let me know how this works out for your mum and you.
Sending much love your way ~
Sammy
Long time no hear from and wow I've missed talking with you.
You mentioned your mum had her leg amputated in 1965. Having never had a limb amputated, I can only imagine the anxiety/depression that could accompany such a procedure - especially as one ages and their mobility/agility decreases.
What I know about Xanax is that this is a drug that is prescribed for anxiety, which I believe comes more from an emotional rather than a physical pain. I'm not sure how or what level of anxiety I would feel after losing my leg - despite the fact that there have been some miraculous strides of progress made in the past 40+ years to empower those who are amputees.
Xanax, as you well know, is a drug that should not be stopped abruptly. My experience with stopping Xanax abruptly resulted in grand mal seizures and for the ensuing 10 years after having those seizures, I was placed on anti-epileptics. I'm wondering Carol if a psychiatrist should be added to your mum's treating team of physicians. I don't know how much a pain doctor or family doctor address the emotional aspects of her disability (and I don't mean just by just handing out scripts for Xanax.) Perhaps, it would be some avail to her to see a psychiatrist so she can talk about how she feels living without her leg; the limitations, and impact it has had on her life. Also, since Xanax is a psychiatric medicine, shouldn't it be prescribed, and her use monitored/determined under the care of a psychiatrist? There may be other/newer psychiatric drugs out there that are more beneficial to her than Xanax - maybe not - but until a full psychiatric evaluation can be done, how will she know.
Additionally, due to her age and physical limitations, maybe adding a physical therapist and/or occupational therapist would help her with what I am sure are some major frustrations she may be feeling. My mum is your mother's age too, and although she has not lost a limb or on any anti-anxiety medications, I sense/hear the frustration in her voice when she relates things she is physically unable to do that she used to do as recent as 5 years ago.
These are just a few thoughts that popped into my head, as I read your message this morning. Please stay in touch and let me know how this works out for your mum and you.
Sending much love your way ~
Sammy
First off, I wanted to thank Tim and Jodi for your responses. It is hard dealing with an obstinate handicapped woman. We have made amazing strides since she came here in Oct. '07. She has lost about 120 lbs. since then, and needless to say that has improved every aspect of her health. She is now at 150 lbs., something she hadn't seen in many years.
With the turbulent relationship I've had with her for years, it's nice to have made peace and come together at last.
Kat, I know it's not good to abruptly stop the benzos. I left her with her RXed dose of two .50 a day.( I was incorrect when I stated her dose above). I think she has been adding another .50 to the mix everyday for about 2 months. Do you think cutting her back to her RXed amount is dangerous? Should I taper her down from 3 pills to many 2.5 a day,,,,,,,,,instead of from 3 pills to 2 pills a day?
I sure don't want her to go through WD/seizures, etc., so if anyone has a opinion on this, let me know.
If she withheld any, I will know simply by her voice and behavior. She can not fake it when she's loaded, and being the expert I am on drug induced behavior, LOL, I will know.
Dear Sammy, Great to hear from you! Yep, we need to chat and catch up! Thanks for your input.
Everything you brought up is a very valid point. She has had a really rough few years, and I am sure she would benefit from counseling.
We just recently got her a new prostesis (SP? ...leg!) and she is in the process of learning to walk all over again. She has been in a wheelchair for 7 years,,,,,,,,long story....but her medical problems prevented her from walking. I am not sure she is going to be able to walk at all, due to the atrophy of her good leg. I have a PT coming 3 days a week now, but the going is slow and with the pressure wound ordeal.......we've had that since Oct., and the pain issues..........man! It's a lot for anyone. Add old age to the mix and sure, she's depressed. She is on an AD, too, of course, but I will talk to her about the psychiatrist. It might be very helpful.
Also, I should mention, she is also on Aricept for demencia. We see a Neurologist regularly, too.
I really think she just wanted more benzos due to the pain. I do not think she was trying to escape reality or enjoyed being drunk, She merely believes they relax her to the point of having no spasms. Makes sense to me, but it's not safe. We;ll see what the MD says, and go from there.
Thanks again everybody. It's very stormy in GA today, and I need to unplug the computer. We lost our DVR this morning due to the electrical storms we're having.
Cutting back one pill will probably only make her uncomfortable but I'm not a doctor and everyone's different and I've never had to deal with the elderly. If it were me I would cut back a .5 a week instead of a day. I know I would start to experience withdrawal if my pill was an hour late but I was taking a lot more. She is probably going to feel very anxious. Try to get her to drink some chamomile tea. It calms the stomach and is relaxing. Is she willing to cut back? If not she is going to make you miserable. Can you call her doctor and ask them how to cut her back? Even if they aren't prescribing they are the ones that introduced them to her, right?
As far as benzos for pain, I guess she could have taken them for that but heck, benzos feel good to most people in the beginning. Maybe it wasn't for the reasons I took them but it sure was nice to not worry about anything in the beginning. Too bad they turn to hell.
As far as benzos for pain, I guess she could have taken them for that but heck, benzos feel good to most people in the beginning. Maybe it wasn't for the reasons I took them but it sure was nice to not worry about anything in the beginning. Too bad they turn to hell.
Carol there are so many benzos available. They have time release xanax which I have yet to speak to anybody who has used it but may be worth mentioning. Klonopin worked wonders for me. The mention of seeking a professional to speak with about depression /Pain is brilliant.
Carol I woulod not cut anything without the doctor knowing exactly what meds she is on. You mentioned another one she takes? So please call her doctor
Good luck--Jeff
Carol I woulod not cut anything without the doctor knowing exactly what meds she is on. You mentioned another one she takes? So please call her doctor
Good luck--Jeff
I had her cut down to 2 1/2 pills a day for a week, then we'll go to 2 pills. These were added without the dr's consent, Jeff, and I am having her taper just to be sure she doesn't have any symptoms.
She was more clear and logical today than she has been in weeks. Damn, sometimes I am just so blind! I should have known recently that she was tricking me. I've known she was out of it, but chose to trust her when she lied and assured me nothing was different.It's like having another child sometimes. LOL But even my kids have never lied like she has lately.
Thanks again!
Hi Carol - No advice just experience. My mother took different pain killers during her sickness. The fentanyl was by far the strongest. It made her completely out of it. She was admitted to the hospital. I brought her in the hospital and asked the doctor if it was the end. She was so wasted that she was seeing things. I googled fentanyl and learned that people have died while on it. I called the hospital and asked the nurse to take the patch off of her. Of course she couldn't do that. We paged the doctor and he agreed to take the patch off. This was midnight. She had been in and of it for two days. At 6am she called me and was almost back to normal. She was asking me to come get her, bring her purse, glasses, etc. I don't know how long your mother has been on it but please be very careful. The reason I brought her into the hospital was because she took a bad fall. Tim is right about mixing xanax with fentanyl. She is up in years and the mixture could cause her to "go to sleep" due to the respiratory system slowing down.
Also my mother suffered from leg cramps for years. Has she ever taken quinine. potassium? Please check with her doctor and tell him everything.
These drugs can stay in your system for a long time. Good luck!
Also my mother suffered from leg cramps for years. Has she ever taken quinine. potassium? Please check with her doctor and tell him everything.
These drugs can stay in your system for a long time. Good luck!
Alice, Thanks for sharing that. Needless to say I was sceptical about the patch in the beginning. When they put her on it 2007, it was to get her off of the vicodan/oxys she had been taking daily for years which seemed to have lost their effect.
She started at 50 mg., and they upped it to 75 mg. after one year.They have talked to her about the respiratory issues, but she insists xanex "provides the only relief I get" and they give it to her anyway. Once they seen her in pain, it's hard to say no.
Oddly enough, she shows no signs of being high when she is just on the patch. She is her usual self. At this point, I would rather they up the patch and cut out some of the others........xanex, toradol and maybe topamax. ???
That may be totally the wrong way to go, but the dr. will decide, not me.
I picked her up some magnesium tabs today. She's already on potasium. I'll check out the quinine. Thanks!
Congrats on all the clean time your racking up, Alice. You're a miracle and it's been a true pleasure to watch you grow since finding our little corner here in cyber space. :-)
She started at 50 mg., and they upped it to 75 mg. after one year.They have talked to her about the respiratory issues, but she insists xanex "provides the only relief I get" and they give it to her anyway. Once they seen her in pain, it's hard to say no.
Oddly enough, she shows no signs of being high when she is just on the patch. She is her usual self. At this point, I would rather they up the patch and cut out some of the others........xanex, toradol and maybe topamax. ???
That may be totally the wrong way to go, but the dr. will decide, not me.
I picked her up some magnesium tabs today. She's already on potasium. I'll check out the quinine. Thanks!
Congrats on all the clean time your racking up, Alice. You're a miracle and it's been a true pleasure to watch you grow since finding our little corner here in cyber space. :-)
I believe the culprit is the additional Xanax.If she is prescribed .25 twice daily and has her hands on over [50] .50, you don't really know how many she's been taking.Xanax,Valium,Klonipin and all benzo's are amnesics too.She could forget how many she's taken or when her last dose was.
.50 a day is a mild dose even with a Duragesic patch.She already had an opiate tolerance so her prescribed medication may be enough.
Under the circumstances it sounds like she will have to be taking something the rest of her life.Make it comfortable for her.
.50 a day is a mild dose even with a Duragesic patch.She already had an opiate tolerance so her prescribed medication may be enough.
Under the circumstances it sounds like she will have to be taking something the rest of her life.Make it comfortable for her.
