Hello Everyone,
I am new to online support. Thanks for your patience if I don't follow etiquett. I am in love with and live with someone who is addicted to opiates, meth and cigaretts. I have recently discovered that the quantity of substance and duration of the addiction is more than I thought.
The amount of money spent is staggering. The fact that the money is gone is bad but what I really am worried about is his health. How long can someone live doing a thousand dollars plus per month of percs from online sources and several thousand worth of Meth? How will he ever see he is sick if the huge dopamine influx makes him feel so good? He claims to be happy. I think he REALLY believes he's ok. I am afraid he will have a heart attack or stroke. He has tried inpt rehab (he left). Out pt rehab (he was high on percs through the whole thing). I've tried being nice, being not nice, crying, screaming, begging...nothing works. He yeses me to death then goes right back out and starts using agian. He claims its the only thing he lies about like he should get a prize for that...the only thing.
He is 41 years old, recently lost his job and now the financial reality is hitting home hard. I have a daughter in college and I NEED to worry about her first. But I love this man and want to be supportive without enabling. How do you do that?? I have tried his parents but they are in denial. I have no one to talk to. After almost 3 years (that I know of)..the lack of honesty and resulting anger starting to take a toll on me physically. I want to be happy again.
I see the huge number of posts in this category of pain pills...Is that because it is such a tough one to beat? Does anyone have any words of wisdom or recommend any threads that might help me? Do people recover? Does it last? How do I trust again? Would he hit bottom faster if I moved out of the way? PLEASE HELP>>> I'm going to lose him..I feel like he is going to die soon. KC
KC..you can't help him if he doesn't want help. It has to come from him. Sadly, that won't happen until he hits his bottom and everyone is different when it comes to that.
There is a forum on the main catagories for families and friends of addicts. Try posting there too.
You have to take care of you and your daughter first. All the love, begging and threatening in the world isn't going to get him to stop.
Have you heard of ala-non?
Cowgirl
There is a forum on the main catagories for families and friends of addicts. Try posting there too.
You have to take care of you and your daughter first. All the love, begging and threatening in the world isn't going to get him to stop.
Have you heard of ala-non?
Cowgirl
Hi KC,
It is all him, and Cowgirl already put that out there. In his time, when he is sick and tired of being sick and tired then his life will begin again....
I know just how you feel, I should I live it each day. Some are better than others, they are always just what I make of them.
There are some things that I know will help.....
You didn't cause this, you can't cure him, and you have no control....
Words to live by, remind yourself of each day, especially on those special days where insanity wants to rule all.....The questions you have are normal, yet the answers tend to come in thier time. Never when we need them the most.
From here well I am not sure where to go.....You said meth....methadone or crank....You also mentioned cigarettes, that you gotta not even bring into the picture now. Yes they are killing him as well but in the scope of things the other stuff is more important now.....How can he live without, well it won't be easy but he will. if he wants to......and if he doesn't see it in himself, how bad he is, well that isn't good......Is this effecting his health, yes.....Do people recover of course....Why the pills, well it isn't just the pills it is heroin as well. It is just that you are seeing where most of the conversations take place. There are coke addicts here, alcoholics, at the end of the day it is all the same....Addiction is addiction, just preference and a void filled when it comes to the drug of choice....
How do you not enable, well there are some great posts about that on the friends and family board.....No money, setting up boundaries, sticking to what you say....The best way to not enable it to take care of you first, I think. I found the more I took the focus off my husband the better I became, the happier....
Do you eat, do you sleep,( if not you aren't putting you first) are you finding time missing from the day because you were so wrapped up in what he is doing. Do you badger, demand answers, have to know where he is what he is doing.....All of these not good behaviors on your part, not heathly and in some ways a form of control......
How do you trust again, well that will be within you. I can't tell you how to trust, when...but you will know....
Keep your faith strong, let go of those things that you have no control over....pray a lot and hope for the best....
Take good care of yourself,
Love,
Tina
Oh and you can go here if you are interested....Heroin will be first, pills down farther.....
http://addictionrecoveryguide.com/m...34&hl=mistyeyes
It is all him, and Cowgirl already put that out there. In his time, when he is sick and tired of being sick and tired then his life will begin again....
I know just how you feel, I should I live it each day. Some are better than others, they are always just what I make of them.
There are some things that I know will help.....
You didn't cause this, you can't cure him, and you have no control....
Words to live by, remind yourself of each day, especially on those special days where insanity wants to rule all.....The questions you have are normal, yet the answers tend to come in thier time. Never when we need them the most.
From here well I am not sure where to go.....You said meth....methadone or crank....You also mentioned cigarettes, that you gotta not even bring into the picture now. Yes they are killing him as well but in the scope of things the other stuff is more important now.....How can he live without, well it won't be easy but he will. if he wants to......and if he doesn't see it in himself, how bad he is, well that isn't good......Is this effecting his health, yes.....Do people recover of course....Why the pills, well it isn't just the pills it is heroin as well. It is just that you are seeing where most of the conversations take place. There are coke addicts here, alcoholics, at the end of the day it is all the same....Addiction is addiction, just preference and a void filled when it comes to the drug of choice....
How do you not enable, well there are some great posts about that on the friends and family board.....No money, setting up boundaries, sticking to what you say....The best way to not enable it to take care of you first, I think. I found the more I took the focus off my husband the better I became, the happier....
Do you eat, do you sleep,( if not you aren't putting you first) are you finding time missing from the day because you were so wrapped up in what he is doing. Do you badger, demand answers, have to know where he is what he is doing.....All of these not good behaviors on your part, not heathly and in some ways a form of control......
How do you trust again, well that will be within you. I can't tell you how to trust, when...but you will know....
Keep your faith strong, let go of those things that you have no control over....pray a lot and hope for the best....
Take good care of yourself,
Love,
Tina
Oh and you can go here if you are interested....Heroin will be first, pills down farther.....
http://addictionrecoveryguide.com/m...34&hl=mistyeyes
That's why I just go"wow" when Misty talks....you are so smart.
You also have mail.
XXX
CG
You also have mail.
XXX
CG
Dear KC Im so sorry your going through this.Its people like you & misty that make me stop & actually think about how my selfish habit must of made my loved ones feel.I agree with CG he will use until HE chooses to stop.And you know what?Thats NOT your fault.I can almost promise that his habit has nothing to do with you.If he says he'll stop for you please dont take this the wrong way but dont let yourself belive him.HE MUST want to change & it is real hard to walk away from what we know.But I think its great that you have reached out.Your a victum to this habit as well as him.This board has a family spot & I know that there are so many out there that feel as you do.By posting here you will get knowledge & knowledge is power.Take Care....mj
MollyJean, Cowgirl, Misty...thanks so much for answering me. It REALLY hellps to know that someone is listening. I had a very difficult weekend and feel like I am losing my mind.
WIth my daughters tuition due in less than three weeks..I had the opportunity to make some profit through my business this weekend.
I guess I should back up a bit. Since losing his job..my addict decided to join me in my business. Before he was a silent investor so to say..he purchased the building I operate out of and invested some money in renovations and equiptment...but it is my concept that I had been working for many years before meeting him and I run the daily operations and am on paper the sole owner. The crazy thing my business is wellness...I heal people with food. The most delicious healthiest food you can get. I help people cure themselves from all types of disease...cancer, heart disease, diabetes, depression, autoimmune diseases...all type of things. In fact I got to know and fell in love with my addict because he was one of my best students...when I met him he was overweight, had GI and ortho problems, depression and ETOH addiction...the food seemed to cure it all...he lost 80 lbs, his whole mind became brighter..it seemed he became a new person and wanted to be involved in spreading this amazing truth about food. This is the person I feel inlove with.
I think maybe he was addicted to me and my concept for a while...everything was great then. I guess like all addictions he started to need more and more to feel good... and eventually turned to oxycontin (high does percocet in a pinch) and crystal meth. How does one go from beiing so focused on health to focusing on self destruction? How could I go from such intense love to practically loathing?
Anyway..he promised to help me pull off very big weekend of catering. He got so high he not only dropped the ball (off in that time void of meth where he thinks hes getting so much done but in reality he focuses on some stupid minute thing and lets precious hours slip away) I had to call his parents because he was insisting on driving my catering truck (propane operated which goes boom big time if one has an accident) with two of my staff in it...one of whome was a 16 year old kid) He would not admitt he was wasted. Everyone who works for me knew it. We were so late to the wedding job they refused to pay and the the other job (feeding a convention with over 5,000 in attendence) was a stressful disaster. Of course he thought he was fine...there was no reason he could not drive. (he not only looked like a tweaked out mad man he has taken to hoarding all types of sharp objects like knives, razor blades, sissors, axes, saws etc and carries them with him when her drives)...anyhow I had to call his parents..they of course think I'm over reacting. Lots of revenue was lost...no sleep and more $$ we don't have spent on drugs. I can't stop screaming or crying.
His parents want to send him to a rehab that cost 17,000 per month. If I thought it would help I would sell all my business assets to pay for it. But will it? Especially since he does not think he has a problem? He will say the words...I have a drug problem. But does nothing about it.
I hate to focus on the financial issues...but I did not sign up for this. Plus the fact that a lot of my business is cash...I am constantly affraid he is stealing money. It makes me feel horrible to question his integrity like that...but he is feeding his head and not paying the morgage. I am affraid for my future and most of all I have become an unhappy, angry mistrustful person. I have always been a happy optimistic and loving person.
Whats happening to me? How do I get myself back? I am so tired of crying every day.
ALso how do I pick up email..I know I should be able to figure it out...but working 18 hour days then arguing with someone on meth until the sun comes up wrecks havoc on your abilities.
Thanks again so much....I will be able to check back more frequently now that my weekend of hell has past. KC
WIth my daughters tuition due in less than three weeks..I had the opportunity to make some profit through my business this weekend.
I guess I should back up a bit. Since losing his job..my addict decided to join me in my business. Before he was a silent investor so to say..he purchased the building I operate out of and invested some money in renovations and equiptment...but it is my concept that I had been working for many years before meeting him and I run the daily operations and am on paper the sole owner. The crazy thing my business is wellness...I heal people with food. The most delicious healthiest food you can get. I help people cure themselves from all types of disease...cancer, heart disease, diabetes, depression, autoimmune diseases...all type of things. In fact I got to know and fell in love with my addict because he was one of my best students...when I met him he was overweight, had GI and ortho problems, depression and ETOH addiction...the food seemed to cure it all...he lost 80 lbs, his whole mind became brighter..it seemed he became a new person and wanted to be involved in spreading this amazing truth about food. This is the person I feel inlove with.
I think maybe he was addicted to me and my concept for a while...everything was great then. I guess like all addictions he started to need more and more to feel good... and eventually turned to oxycontin (high does percocet in a pinch) and crystal meth. How does one go from beiing so focused on health to focusing on self destruction? How could I go from such intense love to practically loathing?
Anyway..he promised to help me pull off very big weekend of catering. He got so high he not only dropped the ball (off in that time void of meth where he thinks hes getting so much done but in reality he focuses on some stupid minute thing and lets precious hours slip away) I had to call his parents because he was insisting on driving my catering truck (propane operated which goes boom big time if one has an accident) with two of my staff in it...one of whome was a 16 year old kid) He would not admitt he was wasted. Everyone who works for me knew it. We were so late to the wedding job they refused to pay and the the other job (feeding a convention with over 5,000 in attendence) was a stressful disaster. Of course he thought he was fine...there was no reason he could not drive. (he not only looked like a tweaked out mad man he has taken to hoarding all types of sharp objects like knives, razor blades, sissors, axes, saws etc and carries them with him when her drives)...anyhow I had to call his parents..they of course think I'm over reacting. Lots of revenue was lost...no sleep and more $$ we don't have spent on drugs. I can't stop screaming or crying.
His parents want to send him to a rehab that cost 17,000 per month. If I thought it would help I would sell all my business assets to pay for it. But will it? Especially since he does not think he has a problem? He will say the words...I have a drug problem. But does nothing about it.
I hate to focus on the financial issues...but I did not sign up for this. Plus the fact that a lot of my business is cash...I am constantly affraid he is stealing money. It makes me feel horrible to question his integrity like that...but he is feeding his head and not paying the morgage. I am affraid for my future and most of all I have become an unhappy, angry mistrustful person. I have always been a happy optimistic and loving person.
Whats happening to me? How do I get myself back? I am so tired of crying every day.
ALso how do I pick up email..I know I should be able to figure it out...but working 18 hour days then arguing with someone on meth until the sun comes up wrecks havoc on your abilities.
Thanks again so much....I will be able to check back more frequently now that my weekend of hell has past. KC
Oh KC...I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I hope what I said earlier made some sense to you. You cannot fix him. You either have to let him go or live in the hell that he's made for himself. And then it becomes your hell and your daughter's hell. Is that fair to her? You're an adult, you can make those decisions, she's stuck.
My advice? Give him the ultimatium and stick to it. Either he gets help immediately or he's out. No support, no nothing.
I grieve for other addicts but unless they are willing to listen and to admit they have a problem, there is nothing you can do. Nothing any of us can do.
Please, look into an ala-non meeting. You really need to take care of yourself right now.
Cowgirl
My advice? Give him the ultimatium and stick to it. Either he gets help immediately or he's out. No support, no nothing.
I grieve for other addicts but unless they are willing to listen and to admit they have a problem, there is nothing you can do. Nothing any of us can do.
Please, look into an ala-non meeting. You really need to take care of yourself right now.
Cowgirl
kc.
I read your posts and I feel your pain and your position you feel you are in. However, you know the reality of this. You asked in your first post if we do recovery and the happy news is that yes we recovery day by day but there is no cure and recovery takes a tremendous amount of work and commitment esp in the beginning. I have been clean for over 5 years and I will be the first to tell you that I wouldnt have been successful if I had someone to 'fall' back on and would listen to my crap... I was left alone completely alone and then and only then did I get it. Sometimes that is what it takes... As said before you didnt cause this and you cant cure him.. No amount of begging, nagging, yelling, ect will make him get the help he needs and truely make the commitment to give up and get help. You have a responsiblity to look after your daughter and yourself and of course in doing that your business... You must not continue to enable him. You know by allowing him to take any responsiblity or think that you trust him when you dont you are in an effect enabling him. Do not feel guilty for doubting his entergrtiy... I am here to tell you it is your duty to do that as we were all liars in one form or the other when we were activily using and would have sold our soul and those souls of our family to the devil to get our next fix. It is that strong and enabling him just keeps him sick.
Do not feel guilty for your feelings. Help yourself and your daughter by getting a perspective on this and dont through the rest of your life away with this addict if he is unwilling to get help... Our talk is cheap and our actions speak louder than words. I would just take care of business and let the other chips fall where they may. I know this is easier said than done but speaking from his shoes at one time that was the only way I 'got it' ...
I will pray for you and your family as you are all sick from being exposed to this eggshell type of life. control is an illusion for you as well as for him. I certainly would not ever let him have anymore acess to money and I wouldnt let him participate in the business until he can prove he is seriousl about his recovery...ie getting clean and going to meetings..ect....
Teresa....
I read your posts and I feel your pain and your position you feel you are in. However, you know the reality of this. You asked in your first post if we do recovery and the happy news is that yes we recovery day by day but there is no cure and recovery takes a tremendous amount of work and commitment esp in the beginning. I have been clean for over 5 years and I will be the first to tell you that I wouldnt have been successful if I had someone to 'fall' back on and would listen to my crap... I was left alone completely alone and then and only then did I get it. Sometimes that is what it takes... As said before you didnt cause this and you cant cure him.. No amount of begging, nagging, yelling, ect will make him get the help he needs and truely make the commitment to give up and get help. You have a responsiblity to look after your daughter and yourself and of course in doing that your business... You must not continue to enable him. You know by allowing him to take any responsiblity or think that you trust him when you dont you are in an effect enabling him. Do not feel guilty for doubting his entergrtiy... I am here to tell you it is your duty to do that as we were all liars in one form or the other when we were activily using and would have sold our soul and those souls of our family to the devil to get our next fix. It is that strong and enabling him just keeps him sick.
Do not feel guilty for your feelings. Help yourself and your daughter by getting a perspective on this and dont through the rest of your life away with this addict if he is unwilling to get help... Our talk is cheap and our actions speak louder than words. I would just take care of business and let the other chips fall where they may. I know this is easier said than done but speaking from his shoes at one time that was the only way I 'got it' ...
I will pray for you and your family as you are all sick from being exposed to this eggshell type of life. control is an illusion for you as well as for him. I certainly would not ever let him have anymore acess to money and I wouldnt let him participate in the business until he can prove he is seriousl about his recovery...ie getting clean and going to meetings..ect....
Teresa....
K.C-Man Im sorry you are going through this madness.There is nothing more you can do.Its time to let go.This seems cold but in reality it will be the only thing that helps him.Addicts only resond to consequences.They use other peoples love and caring to keep their addiction going.Its not his fault, he has a disease.
Like C.G just told you, its time for the big talk.Lay it on the line.The only way this dudes going to get better is to be given a hard choice.
One thing you can do to help yourself is to get involved in either an Alanon or Naranon meeting.You will have some F2F contact with people who are in your exact situation.You are going to need some support.Making a tough decison like this will be brutal.He will try to pull out all the guilt cards on you."you dont love me"etc.
He is going to be forced to confront his disease.
You can love an addict to death.They are not capable of being honest when they have dope in their systems.Of course he feels happy.Hes got some powerful chemicals making him feel that way.Its not real.
Let us know how you are during this too.
good Luck
Like C.G just told you, its time for the big talk.Lay it on the line.The only way this dudes going to get better is to be given a hard choice.
One thing you can do to help yourself is to get involved in either an Alanon or Naranon meeting.You will have some F2F contact with people who are in your exact situation.You are going to need some support.Making a tough decison like this will be brutal.He will try to pull out all the guilt cards on you."you dont love me"etc.
He is going to be forced to confront his disease.
You can love an addict to death.They are not capable of being honest when they have dope in their systems.Of course he feels happy.Hes got some powerful chemicals making him feel that way.Its not real.
Let us know how you are during this too.
good Luck
thanks again to all of you. I think I am becoming addicted to this site. I have so much work to do but I can't stop reading. I feel the lessons of 1000 lifetimes have been poured into my soul.
I have felt some hope, have had a few laughs for the first time in months..but most of all have a deep sense of dread. Mostly because of the numbers..let me explain.
As a business woman and scientist it has been beat into me that numbers don't lie. One look at the number of posts and the dates of the topics tells me that true recovery (not even sure what that means) is somewhat of a golden ring that many are grasping for but few hold onto for long.
2 questions...I know advice is not the real purpose of support..but I am asking for it anyway.
1) I do not want to sound like a downer..and of course the pain of this whole thing is very acute..but I would like to ask all of you...any of you who are or have considered yourself an addict.. If I were your daughter or if you were my daughters grandmom or grandpop... or if you were my loving family.... what would you recommend I do? I love this man and made a commitment to stand by his side no matter what ( I could not marry him though...for a long time I could not figure out why..I guess I have known there was something not right for the whole time I have been with him)
2) As a holistic healer I have always been attracted to people who need help...in fact I have to use all of my willpower to spend most of my time reading and trying to learn rather than reaching out and trying to help everyone I'm reading about on this board. ( I really do feel that optimum nutrition and detox through eating raw foods can help anyone feel better). I know I cannot fix him...I certainly know I did not cause this. I do think I know the root cause for his low self esteem... a childhood trauma he claims to have only shared with me. I guess this is a two part question. Could he have made up this story to get my sympathy and enlist my help with his "problem"? If it is true and he "refuses" to address it on a personal level...do I keep his confidence or let someone know who might be able to help him reslove it...perhaps a therapist if he will agree to see one?
Sorry so long....just desparate for answers. KC
I have felt some hope, have had a few laughs for the first time in months..but most of all have a deep sense of dread. Mostly because of the numbers..let me explain.
As a business woman and scientist it has been beat into me that numbers don't lie. One look at the number of posts and the dates of the topics tells me that true recovery (not even sure what that means) is somewhat of a golden ring that many are grasping for but few hold onto for long.
2 questions...I know advice is not the real purpose of support..but I am asking for it anyway.
1) I do not want to sound like a downer..and of course the pain of this whole thing is very acute..but I would like to ask all of you...any of you who are or have considered yourself an addict.. If I were your daughter or if you were my daughters grandmom or grandpop... or if you were my loving family.... what would you recommend I do? I love this man and made a commitment to stand by his side no matter what ( I could not marry him though...for a long time I could not figure out why..I guess I have known there was something not right for the whole time I have been with him)
2) As a holistic healer I have always been attracted to people who need help...in fact I have to use all of my willpower to spend most of my time reading and trying to learn rather than reaching out and trying to help everyone I'm reading about on this board. ( I really do feel that optimum nutrition and detox through eating raw foods can help anyone feel better). I know I cannot fix him...I certainly know I did not cause this. I do think I know the root cause for his low self esteem... a childhood trauma he claims to have only shared with me. I guess this is a two part question. Could he have made up this story to get my sympathy and enlist my help with his "problem"? If it is true and he "refuses" to address it on a personal level...do I keep his confidence or let someone know who might be able to help him reslove it...perhaps a therapist if he will agree to see one?
Sorry so long....just desparate for answers. KC
KC, I am an addict in recovery. I have much compassion for my fellow addict who is suffering. (in fact, I'm married to one)
However, if you were my daughter, and you would allow me, I would grab you up and get you away from that man. At the very least until he went for treatment and was working a serious program of recovery afterwards.
Until he gets help, he will drag you down with him. It's not intentional. He is diseased and is in need of serious help. Only he can get that help, though.
Sometimes, we are fortunate enough to get wake up calls before we end up in jail or dead.
Perhaps losing his family might be the very thing it takes to realize he has hit his bottom. Maybe not, but it's your only hope.
Good luck, love, Kat
However, if you were my daughter, and you would allow me, I would grab you up and get you away from that man. At the very least until he went for treatment and was working a serious program of recovery afterwards.
Until he gets help, he will drag you down with him. It's not intentional. He is diseased and is in need of serious help. Only he can get that help, though.
Sometimes, we are fortunate enough to get wake up calls before we end up in jail or dead.
Perhaps losing his family might be the very thing it takes to realize he has hit his bottom. Maybe not, but it's your only hope.
Good luck, love, Kat
If you were my daughter and this man refused to get help and is in denial, I would tell you to run just as fast as you can, in the other direction.
This is a life long disease of the brain. Some don't recover if they can't be honest and seek help. You and your daughter deserve better than this. It doesn't mean you don't love him, it just means you can't help him and you can't be taken down with him.
Get out now if he won't get help.
Cowgirl
This is a life long disease of the brain. Some don't recover if they can't be honest and seek help. You and your daughter deserve better than this. It doesn't mean you don't love him, it just means you can't help him and you can't be taken down with him.
Get out now if he won't get help.
Cowgirl
Exactly it doesn't mean he doesn't love you.....
Yet now he is really incapable of loving anything.....including himself......
You asked a lot of questions. I tell so many who walk these shoes that you can all you want and never do the answers come when you really want them....They tend to come in thier time....
And he is dealing with 2 drugs, and that crank does some really bad things to them. Him hoarding knives should have been your answer, flat out. Sorry I know harsh, but to many lives are destroyed by crank and it isn't always the user that feels the full effect.....opiate users seem to be way more laid back.....
Staying, leaving is gonna be so personal......It is up to you to decide what you wish to live with on a daily basis......and until he is truely ready it will only get worse, not better. And rehab, well it will work if he lets it......now doesn't seem like he will......
Oh there is so much, and I could write for hours and never scratch the surface. Addiction is a disease that will be with him now forever......You staying or leaving will not make or break him. His past life, and maybe bad things happening could feed it all, but anything now the farther he gets in I think is just justification.....There are many who have been through such hell and pulled themselves out, in thier time....The past will come back to haunt if not dealt with when and if he gets clean, now it probably doesn't help......but them hey you aren't even sure what is real, what is fiction anymore.....
It is like picking out the truth that lies within the fiction.......which is a contradiction in itself.
The most important thing is you....your daughter....Safety is key, hoarding knives at anytime is insanity. You are a caretaker, one of the roles we might take on this side of things. You can not save him, the world......you can only save yourself, and you must save your daughter, that is the most important thing. Her life depends on this.....And I know Teresa wrote....and she will agree as will everyone else. The longer she is in this, see this....The more likely she will live it again in her own life, with her own partner.....The pattern repeats over, and over.....unless we break the cycle....
Boundaries work but only if you stck to them......Threats just add fuel to the fire, so does snooping......and please never take his drugs, and think you might be saving him....The reaction will not be pretty.......
Sorry I night have went a bit off, please know that it is because I care, and know that you are never alone....
Take good care...
Love,
Tina
Here is a link to a Meth site.....
Clink on thier home page, meth is death. It gives a good overview of the disease.....sorry but that stastics aren't good, kind like heroin, which only 1 in 3 users is said to make it out......
http://www.deathtometh.com/
Yet now he is really incapable of loving anything.....including himself......
You asked a lot of questions. I tell so many who walk these shoes that you can all you want and never do the answers come when you really want them....They tend to come in thier time....
And he is dealing with 2 drugs, and that crank does some really bad things to them. Him hoarding knives should have been your answer, flat out. Sorry I know harsh, but to many lives are destroyed by crank and it isn't always the user that feels the full effect.....opiate users seem to be way more laid back.....
Staying, leaving is gonna be so personal......It is up to you to decide what you wish to live with on a daily basis......and until he is truely ready it will only get worse, not better. And rehab, well it will work if he lets it......now doesn't seem like he will......
Oh there is so much, and I could write for hours and never scratch the surface. Addiction is a disease that will be with him now forever......You staying or leaving will not make or break him. His past life, and maybe bad things happening could feed it all, but anything now the farther he gets in I think is just justification.....There are many who have been through such hell and pulled themselves out, in thier time....The past will come back to haunt if not dealt with when and if he gets clean, now it probably doesn't help......but them hey you aren't even sure what is real, what is fiction anymore.....
It is like picking out the truth that lies within the fiction.......which is a contradiction in itself.
The most important thing is you....your daughter....Safety is key, hoarding knives at anytime is insanity. You are a caretaker, one of the roles we might take on this side of things. You can not save him, the world......you can only save yourself, and you must save your daughter, that is the most important thing. Her life depends on this.....And I know Teresa wrote....and she will agree as will everyone else. The longer she is in this, see this....The more likely she will live it again in her own life, with her own partner.....The pattern repeats over, and over.....unless we break the cycle....
Boundaries work but only if you stck to them......Threats just add fuel to the fire, so does snooping......and please never take his drugs, and think you might be saving him....The reaction will not be pretty.......
Sorry I night have went a bit off, please know that it is because I care, and know that you are never alone....
Take good care...
Love,
Tina
Here is a link to a Meth site.....
Clink on thier home page, meth is death. It gives a good overview of the disease.....sorry but that stastics aren't good, kind like heroin, which only 1 in 3 users is said to make it out......
http://www.deathtometh.com/
KC;
Please do whatever you can right now to protect yourself financially. Hopefully your husband will get the help he needs, but in the meantime you need to stop the $$$ bleeding.
I speak from experience - I bought pills online for years. Without my wife's knowledge I took out a loan against my 401K, borrowed money from my company stock plan, opened up credit cards, etc. I would "intercept" the mail so my wife didn't know what was happening. Trust me these pills are all consuming. An active addict doesn't operate on a logical level.
I really hope your husband wakes up and sees what addiction is doing to him and those he loves. But right now you need to focus on the well being of yourself and your child. As long as your husband is activley using he can't be trusted.
Good luck;
Jim
Please do whatever you can right now to protect yourself financially. Hopefully your husband will get the help he needs, but in the meantime you need to stop the $$$ bleeding.
I speak from experience - I bought pills online for years. Without my wife's knowledge I took out a loan against my 401K, borrowed money from my company stock plan, opened up credit cards, etc. I would "intercept" the mail so my wife didn't know what was happening. Trust me these pills are all consuming. An active addict doesn't operate on a logical level.
I really hope your husband wakes up and sees what addiction is doing to him and those he loves. But right now you need to focus on the well being of yourself and your child. As long as your husband is activley using he can't be trusted.
Good luck;
Jim
OOps not finished my diatribe yet.
2) does talking to his dealers (supposed long time friends) help?
3) is it common to turn to heroin when pills are too expensive?
4) how long can someones liver and kidneys hold up taking ridiculously
high doses of tylenol in percocet and vicodin??
Jim, thanks for your guidance on finances. I feel horrible focusing on this but it is a VERY REAL concern. He has made a very good salary for all the years we have been together so through mail interception and hiding bank and cc statements I was unaware of the extent of the $$ cost. Now that he has lost his job the fear of having to try to support him and his habit is frightening. My business is growing but is still only beggining its 3rd year. I am bootstrapping it (self financed) and have NEVER not paid a bill on time. I have always lived within my means and the idea that huge amounts of money could be spent so selfishly when college tuition needs to be paid each semester is freaking me out.
1) Jim please help me understand....how could he spend all that money on himself when we were supposed to be building a business and saving for college?
2) How could he keep buying online (thousands per month) and not worry about our future?
3) Have you stopped buying pills on line? If so what made you see the light?
4) How do these online places get away with this? Is there any hope of recovering losses through what appears to be an illegal activity? As an RN of course I know that narcs are perscription only...how are these internet sites getting away with this?
5) are you still with your wife? if so how did she learn to trust you again?
I am sorry again for being so long and asking so many questions...I feel like I'm drowing in all the conflicting emotions and I know I am grasping for answers I may never get...I beg you though to please advise!!!
Also how do I pick up email from this site????
Forever grateful for your time and insight~KC
2) does talking to his dealers (supposed long time friends) help?
3) is it common to turn to heroin when pills are too expensive?
4) how long can someones liver and kidneys hold up taking ridiculously
high doses of tylenol in percocet and vicodin??
Jim, thanks for your guidance on finances. I feel horrible focusing on this but it is a VERY REAL concern. He has made a very good salary for all the years we have been together so through mail interception and hiding bank and cc statements I was unaware of the extent of the $$ cost. Now that he has lost his job the fear of having to try to support him and his habit is frightening. My business is growing but is still only beggining its 3rd year. I am bootstrapping it (self financed) and have NEVER not paid a bill on time. I have always lived within my means and the idea that huge amounts of money could be spent so selfishly when college tuition needs to be paid each semester is freaking me out.
1) Jim please help me understand....how could he spend all that money on himself when we were supposed to be building a business and saving for college?
2) How could he keep buying online (thousands per month) and not worry about our future?
3) Have you stopped buying pills on line? If so what made you see the light?
4) How do these online places get away with this? Is there any hope of recovering losses through what appears to be an illegal activity? As an RN of course I know that narcs are perscription only...how are these internet sites getting away with this?
5) are you still with your wife? if so how did she learn to trust you again?
I am sorry again for being so long and asking so many questions...I feel like I'm drowing in all the conflicting emotions and I know I am grasping for answers I may never get...I beg you though to please advise!!!
Also how do I pick up email from this site????
Forever grateful for your time and insight~KC
Hi KC;
He spends all that money on himself and the drugs rather than the family because he's an addict. When he's actively using, the consequences of his use don't really enter into the equation unfortunately. He's obsessed with the drugs. I've been there, and it's all consuming. So much energy is poured into this habit, and until the pain of using is greater than the pain of not using he won't stop.
You know him better than anyone else - you need to deal with this in your own way. What works for some doesn't necessarily work for another. But in the meantime, please look after yourself and your child. Protect yourself financially. My wife has me on a very short leash - my name has been taken off our bank account. I have a 401K from a previous job, so we met with our financial advisor and expalined the situation to him. At least he will call my wife if I ever try to take money from the fund.
The trust, or lack thereof, in our marriage, is the biggest issue I'm dealing with. It will take a long time, because my addiction to pills has done a tremendous amount of damage to our relationship. I do a couple of things that are black and white to assure my wife that I'm clean - I take 100mg naltrexone per day, and my wife periodically watches me take my pills. If I were using I'd go into full-blown withdrawal. In addition, I get drug tested randomly.
I've been clean (this time) for a little over 2 months. This was my 5th relapse in 5 years. I could give all sorts of reasons why I stopped, but the bottom line is the pain of using was greater than of not using. Without going into details, I was completely humiliated when my wife caught me using again.
I'm seeing a counselor twice a week because if I don't confront and resolve my self-destructive behaviors - stuff I've carried forward from childhood - I'll never be well. Sometimes my wife sits in on these sessions. And I go to AA meetings. It's one thing to get clean, it's another to stay clean. You really have to want it, and you really have to be totally honest with yourself. Do you think your husband is ready for this? Will he go to meetings? How about rehab? Or a counselor?
Be careful...if he continues to use drugs don't get dragged down with him. Hopefully he will see the light and embrace recovery. I'm really grateful for what I have today.
If you have any other questions just ask.
Good luck;
Jim
He spends all that money on himself and the drugs rather than the family because he's an addict. When he's actively using, the consequences of his use don't really enter into the equation unfortunately. He's obsessed with the drugs. I've been there, and it's all consuming. So much energy is poured into this habit, and until the pain of using is greater than the pain of not using he won't stop.
You know him better than anyone else - you need to deal with this in your own way. What works for some doesn't necessarily work for another. But in the meantime, please look after yourself and your child. Protect yourself financially. My wife has me on a very short leash - my name has been taken off our bank account. I have a 401K from a previous job, so we met with our financial advisor and expalined the situation to him. At least he will call my wife if I ever try to take money from the fund.
The trust, or lack thereof, in our marriage, is the biggest issue I'm dealing with. It will take a long time, because my addiction to pills has done a tremendous amount of damage to our relationship. I do a couple of things that are black and white to assure my wife that I'm clean - I take 100mg naltrexone per day, and my wife periodically watches me take my pills. If I were using I'd go into full-blown withdrawal. In addition, I get drug tested randomly.
I've been clean (this time) for a little over 2 months. This was my 5th relapse in 5 years. I could give all sorts of reasons why I stopped, but the bottom line is the pain of using was greater than of not using. Without going into details, I was completely humiliated when my wife caught me using again.
I'm seeing a counselor twice a week because if I don't confront and resolve my self-destructive behaviors - stuff I've carried forward from childhood - I'll never be well. Sometimes my wife sits in on these sessions. And I go to AA meetings. It's one thing to get clean, it's another to stay clean. You really have to want it, and you really have to be totally honest with yourself. Do you think your husband is ready for this? Will he go to meetings? How about rehab? Or a counselor?
Be careful...if he continues to use drugs don't get dragged down with him. Hopefully he will see the light and embrace recovery. I'm really grateful for what I have today.
If you have any other questions just ask.
Good luck;
Jim
thank you for your honesty Jim..at least someone is being honest with me.
I also thank you for your willingness to answer more questions...I feel I can learn a lot from what you and your family have gone through. I can feel that you are clean because if not ...you would have no interest in helping me.
I do have a few other questions:
1) did you at first refuse the short leash you speak of? I feel that this is the only way that I can even consider staying due to the severity of the financial possibilities.
2) as for the narcan... what side effects does it have? Who's idea was it? When you relapsed did you stop taking it before hand..in other words was the relapse premeditated?
3) you mentioned relapse 5 times in 5 years. That is interesting because from what I have been able to reconstruct from financial records, his full blown times come about once per year ( meaning times when he spends several thousand per month via online sources). Do you know if this relapse pattern is common? What are your triggers? and if on a short leash as you say..how do you pay for it?
4) have you damaged your liver or kidneys fromt the acetominaphen (tylenol)?
5) If you have childern..do they know? What about other family members?
6) are pain pills your only DOC or do you move to heroin or other cheaper drugs if necessary? or something the narcan does not kill?
7) did you do inpatient rehab? Some other recovery program? If so did it help or did you just meet others who rationalize their use and "accept" relapse as "part of the process"
8) you spoke of childhood issues. I was made aware by my husband that there is a history of childhood trauma. This is something he claims to have never shared with anyone but me. Should I confront him with my belief that this may be the root of his self esteem issues and that if he wants to get well he needs to get into therapy and work to resolve this? Or is that his cross to bear and I should keep my professional opinions to myself?
9) I am very fearful he will die...Between the meth increasing his oxygen demand and the opiates and cigaretts decreasing supply he is a cardiovascular nightmare... If you could say one thing to my husband that might make him see the light...what would that be?
10) someone said I have email..do you know how to pick it up?
you are a very generous man Jim for taking the time to help a stranger...I will never forget the kindness of the people on this board. KC
I also thank you for your willingness to answer more questions...I feel I can learn a lot from what you and your family have gone through. I can feel that you are clean because if not ...you would have no interest in helping me.
I do have a few other questions:
1) did you at first refuse the short leash you speak of? I feel that this is the only way that I can even consider staying due to the severity of the financial possibilities.
2) as for the narcan... what side effects does it have? Who's idea was it? When you relapsed did you stop taking it before hand..in other words was the relapse premeditated?
3) you mentioned relapse 5 times in 5 years. That is interesting because from what I have been able to reconstruct from financial records, his full blown times come about once per year ( meaning times when he spends several thousand per month via online sources). Do you know if this relapse pattern is common? What are your triggers? and if on a short leash as you say..how do you pay for it?
4) have you damaged your liver or kidneys fromt the acetominaphen (tylenol)?
5) If you have childern..do they know? What about other family members?
6) are pain pills your only DOC or do you move to heroin or other cheaper drugs if necessary? or something the narcan does not kill?
7) did you do inpatient rehab? Some other recovery program? If so did it help or did you just meet others who rationalize their use and "accept" relapse as "part of the process"
8) you spoke of childhood issues. I was made aware by my husband that there is a history of childhood trauma. This is something he claims to have never shared with anyone but me. Should I confront him with my belief that this may be the root of his self esteem issues and that if he wants to get well he needs to get into therapy and work to resolve this? Or is that his cross to bear and I should keep my professional opinions to myself?
9) I am very fearful he will die...Between the meth increasing his oxygen demand and the opiates and cigaretts decreasing supply he is a cardiovascular nightmare... If you could say one thing to my husband that might make him see the light...what would that be?
10) someone said I have email..do you know how to pick it up?
you are a very generous man Jim for taking the time to help a stranger...I will never forget the kindness of the people on this board. KC
K.C.
All those questions......Well don't remember that as a fun time for myself......
You gonna drive yourself batty. Ok been there done that, almost a year to the date exactly.....
Like Jim said protect yourself and your finances, and in the end you are gonna do what you feel is right...........
Giving him any money is enabling. Hard to explain this but my husband has no mac card, no credit cards, and only carries a small amount of money during the week, when he knows he will be more likely to use. Now we did this together, which was important to me.....On the weekends he has all the cards, I check at times but I don't need to look at any account anymore to know if he used. He is so him, that for the longest time he circumvented all of this worked extra for cash and fed his habit.....That is gone, and he is clean, and maybe just maybe this is the end of it all.........
Talking to the dealers doesn't help.....People, places and things. He needs to change anything that has to do with drugs......And yes very common to go from pills to heroin, much cheaper, less is more but that doesn't last very long.
and the tylenol some go for years upon years, luckily still somewhat healthy. others aren't so lucky.......
Why do they do what they do.....It is the disease, the drugs are the primary focus, nothing happens until after the fix.....Click the link, and read....it is the outside looking in....
http://addictionrecoveryguide.com/m...ST&f=17&t=17874
And email, well we don't have email on this site.....But I think all of us have private emails.....Many talk off the board......
And nap time ended real quick, so I gotta run.....
Will check back later....be good to yourself.
Love,
Tina
All those questions......Well don't remember that as a fun time for myself......
You gonna drive yourself batty. Ok been there done that, almost a year to the date exactly.....
Like Jim said protect yourself and your finances, and in the end you are gonna do what you feel is right...........
Giving him any money is enabling. Hard to explain this but my husband has no mac card, no credit cards, and only carries a small amount of money during the week, when he knows he will be more likely to use. Now we did this together, which was important to me.....On the weekends he has all the cards, I check at times but I don't need to look at any account anymore to know if he used. He is so him, that for the longest time he circumvented all of this worked extra for cash and fed his habit.....That is gone, and he is clean, and maybe just maybe this is the end of it all.........
Talking to the dealers doesn't help.....People, places and things. He needs to change anything that has to do with drugs......And yes very common to go from pills to heroin, much cheaper, less is more but that doesn't last very long.
and the tylenol some go for years upon years, luckily still somewhat healthy. others aren't so lucky.......
Why do they do what they do.....It is the disease, the drugs are the primary focus, nothing happens until after the fix.....Click the link, and read....it is the outside looking in....
http://addictionrecoveryguide.com/m...ST&f=17&t=17874
And email, well we don't have email on this site.....But I think all of us have private emails.....Many talk off the board......
And nap time ended real quick, so I gotta run.....
Will check back later....be good to yourself.
Love,
Tina
KC - I'll be happy to share more info with you....but right now I'm running to a dentist appt., and I'm not sure if I'll be able to get online at home later on. 1) I have a 15 year old step-daughter, the queen of IM, and 2) my being online at home for more than a few minutes is a trigger for my wife.
So I'll do my best, today or tomorrow, to get back to you. Hang in there.
And thanks Tina. You're a lifesaver!
Jim
So I'll do my best, today or tomorrow, to get back to you. Hang in there.
And thanks Tina. You're a lifesaver!
Jim
Posts: 4132
Joined: October 27, 2004
Ok Tina...one year since what? SInce you found out and started asking questions or since he stopped? I already feel batty...in fact I feel crazed. I am soooo angry at the lies. In fact now I think I'm imagining things that are not there..or are they? I feel consumed by the drama. I want it to end. I just want peace in my life. I'm too old for this.
I have instinctively protected my small amount of savings ( an IRA from my first marraige) from the beginning. Something about his spending habits never felt right. But as I said..he had a large income and was very generous with me and my daughter.
Thats what makes this short leash thing so hard...any money/assets are really his. Though we talked about sharing everything..all the sudden I am affraid to have him as an active partner in the business because I have to be very careful how every penny in the business is spent...it can't be spent on uneccessary things....
Is compulsive shopping part of this whole thing too??? Seems like that is a problem as well.
"Giving him any money is enabling" I also tried this for a little while...talk about feeling like his mother!! I hid his mac card and try to make him show me the bank statement. I ask for receipts for all cash purchases. But the possibility of pawning, borrowing from friends/family or other ways of obtaining cash seem so difficult to stop...Is this how I am to spend my time? I am very angry that I feel I have to do this. Is this really the only way? Leave and let him lose it all including possibly his life..or act like his mom and hold his cash, scripts and valuables and check up on him like a parole officer with piss tests and narcan??
" I don't need to look at any account anymore to know if he used" this statement freaks me out a bit.. I guess it means he goes in and out of recovery..suffers relapses..falls off the wagon ..or what ever euphamism means he does not keep his promis to you to not use?
"He is so him" that for the longest time he circumvented all of this worked extra for cash and fed his habit.....That is gone, and he is clean, and maybe just maybe this is the end of it all" That whole paragraph tells me that though you hope he stays clean..that part of you believes this is part of his basic personality and that it may never end?? Is that true??
"People, places and things. He needs to change anything that has to do with drugs" Does that mean being with me? We have done drugs/ETOH together. I don't get addicted, don't go overboard and don't lie about it. I have stopped and told him I am willing to never use anything again now that I see what a problem it is for him. Of course his health and our financial health means more than any mind altering substance. Could I be a trigger? Would he have a better chance of recovery if I was not around to always remind him of the past???
Also am I kidding myself...or are there some people who can do recreational mind alteration wether through alcohol or drugs and not be addicts? If so are we especially dangerous to the addict because they see that not everyone has to go to the bottem..that some people can practice moderation?? Or is that a bunch of crap and I too should be in a recovery program??
Dear Jim...hope the dentist did not hurt.
I understand the 15 year old IM'r but what do you mean by " a trigger for your wife". Seems like everything is a trigger for me to be a raving bit** right now. I DON'T WANT TO BE THIS WAY..but I don't know where the loving, compassionate me went.
I lash out and say s*** that I don't even mean..or rather just to be mean. A relative calls it tough love..it makes me feel like cr*p..but I can't seem to stop the rage within me.
I just can't believe how many times he has lied to me..with such a straight face and often the guilt trip "I can't believe you are doubting my integrity...how would you feel if I did not trust you...you are never going to believe me again"bla bla bla.
Sometimes I wish I could sew his lips shut because no matter what he says my heart won't let me believe it..its like I am too affraid to be hurt and I would rather hurt him then be hurt by him.
How long can we keep up this torture of one another?? I don't want to make things worse for him and I don't want to ruin my life. I have already lost all faith in relationships and doubt I will ever trust anyone again. Is it too late? Are we doomed to fight in this round and round fashion forever. I feel like my parents..who also lost the trust in their relationship many years ago. Yes they stayed together...but at what price? There is still not a lot of trust and lots of bickering because I'm sure my Mom still resents the lies.
PLEASE HELP ME FEEL AT PEACE>>>IT IS STARTING TO EFFECT MY HEALTH!!! KC
