I was at a dinner party last night and there were 6 couples there. We began talking about addiction...Every single person there is either suffering themselves, or have children with addiction issues. No one at the table was immune by any means.
It was interesting what happened. I would like your opinion.
I made the statement...and I do believe this...that anyone who was actively working a program of recovery...key word "actively", would not pick up again.
Oooooh, everyone was in disagreement, some were silent (mostly the men) but most all the women were in total disagreement.
This discussion came up after one friend told that she had to clean her house of all alcohol, because her alcoholic brother was visiting. I said, maybe next year you won't have to clean out your bar...and she said once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic, to which I agreed. But then I added, but when we are actively working a program of recovery...we don't use.
The discussion got pretty heated...and I got real quiet and listened.
The friend who cleaned the bar...her brother went out bought his own booze, hid it and got smashed every night though there was no liquor in her bar.
I tried to clarify my statement...about how when we are working it everyday...doing the things that we have set up for ourselves to do...that keep us from using, then we don't use. No one understood.
They said that addicts brains are wired differently...(I actually agree with that)...and that going to meetings, working the steps, will not keep you clean if you are not strong willed...None of these people are in recovery themselves...but have a lot of experience trying to help their children, spouse, etc. (Some need to be in recovery themselves, but for that...I just offer up a prayer for them).
Anyway, I disagree with what they said. First, it sounded so hopeless. Second, they said...do you think an alcoholic could be at this dinner party. Champagne was served. And I said yes, although I do not consider myself an alcoholic by any means, I wasn't drinking, neither was my husband. I do think an alcoholic can be around alcohol and not use, I also think a drug addict could be around pain pills and not use...etc. I am sure at least 3 people at this gathering were holding pain pills...it never even crossed my mind. Once this discussion started it crossed my mind...but only in a referential way.
I guess what I am saying is....while I realize we must change people, places and things...we will not always be insulated from the "stuff" that is dangerous for us. Shopaholics in recovery pass stores...Gamblers in recovery could go online and bet away, Alcoholics pass liquor stores, Addicts, all of us, could go online right now and waalaa...the point is we don't...
Why don't we? Because we are actively working a program of recovery.
I think maybe complacency is what causes us to fail...when we deny ourselves reaching for the tools to cope and fall back on old behaviors. The tools are still there, they just aren't in our hands anymore. I mentally hold out my hand for my tools sometimes hourly, but for sure, EVERY SINGLE DAY.
I am really grasping for understanding here...so any and all opinions would be appreciated.
Thank you all. Sorry if this wasn't very eloquent.
Peace.
Sarah
None of the people were in recovery themselves....
And there you have the reason why they all disagreed. I personally agree, even though I am on the side of watching.
I find your wording interesting they were helping thier children, spouses. There is no helping we on this side only help by taking care of us ( not being enablers, fixers, saviors ), not by physically doing anything for those we love, except in my eyes to love unconditionally, and hugs and listening without judgement seems important to me as well.....
That so called help many times is just helping those addicted stay stuck.
And I find it sad that anyone would think this has to do with strength and that a weak mind is why those in thier lives aren't clean. How sad, that is the moral model for addiction....
One thing I am maybe to pushy about it this once an addict always an addict. Yes it will always be there and thinking now of Atlas's dad all these years later and he started drinking again.....
But on my side of things ( in my head ) it doesn't mean that someone in recovery should be treated as if at any time they could go right back out. That is so labeling and boxing someone in by their past. Well if the past isn't showing they why trap anyone like that. It is almost like saying well yeah you are ok today, and for all this time but hey I am waiting for that shoe to drop again. The is madness on the part of anyone who would think that way ....and I can only imagine how this would seem to someone with time in, years in who are still be treated as if they were still using........
Also I have to add that to me my husband and son aren't much different then anyone else in this world. Ok they are addicts, and that means what? I make it all perfect for them, no. Does that mean they get cut slack, not thinking so. Does that mean they are treated any different from those in my life that I love that aren't addicts, no way....
That women who cleaned house for her brother...See I understand but I gotta wonder did she really think it would stop him. I am betting she did. That is insanity to me. I mean taking the alcohol away ok I get it but I also wonder why no boundaries, like you can not drink in my home. But hey then she would have had to take the focus off him and look at herself, work on herself. Yeah maybe harsh but just what came to mind.
Might have ranted a bit forgive me.....
You have a wonderful New Year.
Love,
Tina
And there you have the reason why they all disagreed. I personally agree, even though I am on the side of watching.
I find your wording interesting they were helping thier children, spouses. There is no helping we on this side only help by taking care of us ( not being enablers, fixers, saviors ), not by physically doing anything for those we love, except in my eyes to love unconditionally, and hugs and listening without judgement seems important to me as well.....
That so called help many times is just helping those addicted stay stuck.
And I find it sad that anyone would think this has to do with strength and that a weak mind is why those in thier lives aren't clean. How sad, that is the moral model for addiction....
One thing I am maybe to pushy about it this once an addict always an addict. Yes it will always be there and thinking now of Atlas's dad all these years later and he started drinking again.....
But on my side of things ( in my head ) it doesn't mean that someone in recovery should be treated as if at any time they could go right back out. That is so labeling and boxing someone in by their past. Well if the past isn't showing they why trap anyone like that. It is almost like saying well yeah you are ok today, and for all this time but hey I am waiting for that shoe to drop again. The is madness on the part of anyone who would think that way ....and I can only imagine how this would seem to someone with time in, years in who are still be treated as if they were still using........
Also I have to add that to me my husband and son aren't much different then anyone else in this world. Ok they are addicts, and that means what? I make it all perfect for them, no. Does that mean they get cut slack, not thinking so. Does that mean they are treated any different from those in my life that I love that aren't addicts, no way....
That women who cleaned house for her brother...See I understand but I gotta wonder did she really think it would stop him. I am betting she did. That is insanity to me. I mean taking the alcohol away ok I get it but I also wonder why no boundaries, like you can not drink in my home. But hey then she would have had to take the focus off him and look at herself, work on herself. Yeah maybe harsh but just what came to mind.
Might have ranted a bit forgive me.....
You have a wonderful New Year.
Love,
Tina
Sarah,
I don't think there is a right answer, but your friends are at least partly wrong. I've known plenty of people in recovery who can be around their doc and not use. The brother who got smashed, in spite of your friend's best efforts to prevent it, is the perfect example of the opposite truth. He must not be in recovery. He is in active addiction. The pain pills were hidden from my sister when she visited, and she still managed to get two of them. She is not in recovery.
Someone mentioned something that Elim said (was it you?)....."I don't want to be clean by default." Some addictions are always going to be available. Alcohol is everywhere, easily accessible to anyone with a couple of dollars. Does that mean an alcoholic can never be sober? Of course not. What about smokers who quit? The next cigarette is only a couple of dollars away, and most people can buy them within a minute or two of leaving their home.
My dad may not be the best example right now, but for several years my mom has had a bottle of rum and a bottle of brandy in the cabinet at their home. The same bottles. On a rare occasion she makes a daiquiri or does a shot to sleep. I'm sure she has thrown them out by now, but they didn't cause relapse, nor did he relapse on those bottles.
I guess I'm rambling but what I am trying to say is you are rightER...he he he
I think a person who is working a strong recovery program is much less likely to relapse, but no guarantees. It's very cynical to think that all addicts will never be able to refrain from using their DOC if given the chance. Since you implied that some of these people may have abuse issues of their own, maybe they don't know about recovery and what it truly is?
I'm not sure if any of this made any sense, but I see your point and I am a little surprised that everyone disagreed. But hey, if they were right, that would mean you would have managed to have gotten your hands on the pills that sat with you at the table. I'm sure if you would have wanted them, you could have gotten them. But, you are in recovery, you didn't want them and you didn't take any just because they were there. You didn't develop a sudden horrible migraine, you didn't "throw your back out." If you had chosen to sit there writhing in fake pain, surely they would have offered you a pill or three? The fact that you sat at their table all night and didn't steal or manipulate any pills proves they are not correct with that assumption.
Edited to say: Tina said it much better than I did. I guess that was the point I was trying to make.
I don't think there is a right answer, but your friends are at least partly wrong. I've known plenty of people in recovery who can be around their doc and not use. The brother who got smashed, in spite of your friend's best efforts to prevent it, is the perfect example of the opposite truth. He must not be in recovery. He is in active addiction. The pain pills were hidden from my sister when she visited, and she still managed to get two of them. She is not in recovery.
Someone mentioned something that Elim said (was it you?)....."I don't want to be clean by default." Some addictions are always going to be available. Alcohol is everywhere, easily accessible to anyone with a couple of dollars. Does that mean an alcoholic can never be sober? Of course not. What about smokers who quit? The next cigarette is only a couple of dollars away, and most people can buy them within a minute or two of leaving their home.
My dad may not be the best example right now, but for several years my mom has had a bottle of rum and a bottle of brandy in the cabinet at their home. The same bottles. On a rare occasion she makes a daiquiri or does a shot to sleep. I'm sure she has thrown them out by now, but they didn't cause relapse, nor did he relapse on those bottles.
I guess I'm rambling but what I am trying to say is you are rightER...he he he
I think a person who is working a strong recovery program is much less likely to relapse, but no guarantees. It's very cynical to think that all addicts will never be able to refrain from using their DOC if given the chance. Since you implied that some of these people may have abuse issues of their own, maybe they don't know about recovery and what it truly is?
I'm not sure if any of this made any sense, but I see your point and I am a little surprised that everyone disagreed. But hey, if they were right, that would mean you would have managed to have gotten your hands on the pills that sat with you at the table. I'm sure if you would have wanted them, you could have gotten them. But, you are in recovery, you didn't want them and you didn't take any just because they were there. You didn't develop a sudden horrible migraine, you didn't "throw your back out." If you had chosen to sit there writhing in fake pain, surely they would have offered you a pill or three? The fact that you sat at their table all night and didn't steal or manipulate any pills proves they are not correct with that assumption.
Edited to say: Tina said it much better than I did. I guess that was the point I was trying to make.
Sarah:
Happy New Year! I think that if we keep spitually fit, God's grace, which I believe to be willingness, releases us from the compulsion to use and guided toward a compulsion to live. I believe living in the real world (sanity) and not the delusional world (insanity) helps us to counterbalance the compulsion to use drugs. I know for myself, when I get away from meetings, do not read my spiritual teachings, get involved in other peoples bulls*** and am not working my program than I am definitely feeling a little squirrely. The good news is, today I know when I am off the mark and I have tools today to keep myself spiritually fit.
I went to a meeting last night and a man shared, as a newcomer, he had five days. He used after nine years of sobriety. He said he got away from the things that helped him so much in the beginning of his sobriety. That keeps it green for me. When I get cocky, I am setting myself up. I know I feel better when I go to meetings and hang with my sober friends.
~Rachel
Happy New Year! I think that if we keep spitually fit, God's grace, which I believe to be willingness, releases us from the compulsion to use and guided toward a compulsion to live. I believe living in the real world (sanity) and not the delusional world (insanity) helps us to counterbalance the compulsion to use drugs. I know for myself, when I get away from meetings, do not read my spiritual teachings, get involved in other peoples bulls*** and am not working my program than I am definitely feeling a little squirrely. The good news is, today I know when I am off the mark and I have tools today to keep myself spiritually fit.
I went to a meeting last night and a man shared, as a newcomer, he had five days. He used after nine years of sobriety. He said he got away from the things that helped him so much in the beginning of his sobriety. That keeps it green for me. When I get cocky, I am setting myself up. I know I feel better when I go to meetings and hang with my sober friends.
~Rachel
People not in recovery are ignorant at best. They really have no idea what it's like to walk in our shoes. Some come close and actually sympathize, but the "normies" truly don't get it.
Will power? Bah. Has nothing to do with it. You can not will yourself not to take pills. Oh, you might be able to for awhile, white knuckle it and all, but without a program of recovery that you are WORKING every day, eventually your disease will win out and you will relapse. I know there have been some that can do just that. Tell themselves that they are done and walk away. But for how long? What happens when they have to take meds legit., what keeps them from continueing after they've gotten a taste for it again? Not much. And are they truly happy? Do they live life to the fullest are do they go through their day thinking, I will not take a pill, I will not take a pill? Do they have any sense of real serenity? I am cynical when it comes to this kind of stuff and I apologize in advance if it offends anyone but I've been around the block too many times and watched too many people with will power fall flat on their faces the minute they let thier guard down. It is an insidious disease.
Good thread Sarah....was the food at least worth it? <eg>
Lisa
Will power? Bah. Has nothing to do with it. You can not will yourself not to take pills. Oh, you might be able to for awhile, white knuckle it and all, but without a program of recovery that you are WORKING every day, eventually your disease will win out and you will relapse. I know there have been some that can do just that. Tell themselves that they are done and walk away. But for how long? What happens when they have to take meds legit., what keeps them from continueing after they've gotten a taste for it again? Not much. And are they truly happy? Do they live life to the fullest are do they go through their day thinking, I will not take a pill, I will not take a pill? Do they have any sense of real serenity? I am cynical when it comes to this kind of stuff and I apologize in advance if it offends anyone but I've been around the block too many times and watched too many people with will power fall flat on their faces the minute they let thier guard down. It is an insidious disease.
Good thread Sarah....was the food at least worth it? <eg>
Lisa
Hi Sarah, sorry it wasn't a better time, lol! It is an interesting topic though, and I find myself hearing those addiction conversations from across the room. They get my attention. I like what cowgirl said about faking the headache, as a way to get those pills (if we want them, we DO seem to get our hands on them!) I keep hoping that people get a clue about what we really go through. It is such a bad rap to be "recovering", like we want to rip them off or hurt their kids, geeeeze! I have a couple family members like that, and then I talk too much, get my foot in my mouth! I like this board, we understand each other!!
Sarah I do agree with you.
Do you work the steps Sarah?
I don't. Of course I've been to a few meetings, and would love to go to more...but I don't actively work the steps. (although it's something I think would help me, especially mentally.
I do see psychiatrists, and am on sub, an AD, and a mood stabilizer that are helping me tremendously. I've been off my DOC for over 4 months and have almost gotten my life completely back together. Something I thought would never happen and I am blessed for. If I go back out to ACTIVE addiction, I doubt I'll make it back. It's not something that is worth losing my Family and My job and my daughter...
Am I going to go back out because I will relapse? I sure hope not. I'd be signing my death certificate.
But although working 'active recovery' as 12 steppers would see it, ... I'm not doing that. I couldn't do that, unless I took my 2 yr old with me... I can't break my neck, and MY BACK to do that.
So am I just screwed? Lisa?
Love
stacey
Do you work the steps Sarah?
I don't. Of course I've been to a few meetings, and would love to go to more...but I don't actively work the steps. (although it's something I think would help me, especially mentally.
I do see psychiatrists, and am on sub, an AD, and a mood stabilizer that are helping me tremendously. I've been off my DOC for over 4 months and have almost gotten my life completely back together. Something I thought would never happen and I am blessed for. If I go back out to ACTIVE addiction, I doubt I'll make it back. It's not something that is worth losing my Family and My job and my daughter...
Am I going to go back out because I will relapse? I sure hope not. I'd be signing my death certificate.
But although working 'active recovery' as 12 steppers would see it, ... I'm not doing that. I couldn't do that, unless I took my 2 yr old with me... I can't break my neck, and MY BACK to do that.
So am I just screwed? Lisa?
Love
stacey
Not sure what you're asking honey. I don't think you're screwed, what I think is that you have come so far. You do know though, that without a solid recovery program in place, once you come off the sub, yea, you just might be screwed. But you have a choice in that Stacy. You can take Kaylin with you to meetings. Most have a play room for kids. It's a little harder to pay attention to the meeting but at least you're there and you can listen. There isn't anyone who can babysit for an hour? A drop in daycare maybe? You know that if I was there, I'd sit for that gorgeous child. Maybe Carol or Paula? You guys could take turns? Just a thought.
We made time to get our pills, we can make time to stay off of them.
Is that what you were asking?
big hugs
We made time to get our pills, we can make time to stay off of them.
Is that what you were asking?
big hugs
But although working 'active recovery' as 12 steppers would see it, ... I'm not doing that. I couldn't do that, unless I took my 2 yr old with me... I can't break my neck, and MY BACK to do that.
You can actively work the steps anywhere.It would require you getting a sponsor to guide you and they of course would want you to make meetings.
There are meetings some places where they will have a day care facility.You can't be the only mother with a child in NA.Have you called around to check on that?
There is a text called the" NA Working Step Guide" that does a good job of explaining each step.
I'm with Lisa on this.The sub is a tool but eventually you will want to get off it...or maybe not,I can't project that.
If you get started in the program and develop some tools to stay clean,when you do get off the sub,it might just be a whole lot easier?
You also said "I'm not doing that...I couldn't do that?"
Does that mean you already made up your mind?
You can actively work the steps anywhere.It would require you getting a sponsor to guide you and they of course would want you to make meetings.
There are meetings some places where they will have a day care facility.You can't be the only mother with a child in NA.Have you called around to check on that?
There is a text called the" NA Working Step Guide" that does a good job of explaining each step.
I'm with Lisa on this.The sub is a tool but eventually you will want to get off it...or maybe not,I can't project that.
If you get started in the program and develop some tools to stay clean,when you do get off the sub,it might just be a whole lot easier?
You also said "I'm not doing that...I couldn't do that?"
Does that mean you already made up your mind?
Tim,
That was kinda what I was curious about is if it is possible to work the steps and not have to go to meetings all the time.
I will call around and see if they have some sort of childcare.
I would let my mom watch her but we're about 40 min. away now.
I wasn't stating that I couldn't do that... i was asking "i couldn't do that??" aka. watch me.
THanks
stac
That was kinda what I was curious about is if it is possible to work the steps and not have to go to meetings all the time.
I will call around and see if they have some sort of childcare.
I would let my mom watch her but we're about 40 min. away now.
I wasn't stating that I couldn't do that... i was asking "i couldn't do that??" aka. watch me.
THanks
stac
Stacey-It is usually suggested that you make 90 meetings in 90 days.That is not written in stone.
I would suggest you find either an AA or NA group that has a facility to take care of children.Also,what do you do when you have to go somewhere without your child? Does someone babbysit?Maybe you could even get someone to do that for an hour and a half?
You should be able to find a sponsor who understands your situation and would be willing to work with you.They are not all Nazis.LOL
Be up front with a prespective sponsor,tell them you want to get started on the steps,let them know you are taking Sub and allow them to offer suggestions.
Even if you could make a couple of meetings a week,that would seem reasonable.
I hate to see you miss out on something that could change your life.You don't have to.Make it a priority and God will do the rest.There are people with all sorts of constraints that make this work.
Good Luck to you Stacey and have a very Happy New Year.
I would suggest you find either an AA or NA group that has a facility to take care of children.Also,what do you do when you have to go somewhere without your child? Does someone babbysit?Maybe you could even get someone to do that for an hour and a half?
You should be able to find a sponsor who understands your situation and would be willing to work with you.They are not all Nazis.LOL
Be up front with a prespective sponsor,tell them you want to get started on the steps,let them know you are taking Sub and allow them to offer suggestions.
Even if you could make a couple of meetings a week,that would seem reasonable.
I hate to see you miss out on something that could change your life.You don't have to.Make it a priority and God will do the rest.There are people with all sorts of constraints that make this work.
Good Luck to you Stacey and have a very Happy New Year.
Sarah-Hi!
I mentioned this in Atlas' thread but I believe this is about the same thing.
I don't explain this to people anymore or if I do its a very succinct explanation.
They don't get it and the more verbose you get,the more you confuse them and yourself.LOL...if you can imagine that.
I had a buddy who was constantly asking me questions about it and after awhile I felt like I was in some sort of research project.Not a cool feeling.He was enjoying the more seedy aspects of it and I was actually getting off by telling him.My stories may have become a little too colorful.I can start thinking of myself as some sort of Legend on my own.I certainly don't need encouragement.
If I pick up that someone is asking because they think they might have a problem,then its a whole different ballgame.As a recovering addict I feel a responsibility to help anyone I can suffering from this disease.It's something I want to do.I let it be known to one guy on a surfing BB that I was in Recovery because he said he was hitting the bottle too much.I had 4 PM's the next day about guys thinking they had a problem.You never know what you are going to say that might make a difference.
I think if I was in a situation where it was being discussed on some sort of peudo-intellectual level about what addiction is,I would probably try and change the subject or just excuse myself.That requires too much energy.
Recovery is a simple program for complicated people .
We can come up with 1,000 valid reasons why we can't do it but have you ever thought of the lengths we would go to procure our poison?
Have a Happy New Year,Sarah.
I mentioned this in Atlas' thread but I believe this is about the same thing.
I don't explain this to people anymore or if I do its a very succinct explanation.
They don't get it and the more verbose you get,the more you confuse them and yourself.LOL...if you can imagine that.
I had a buddy who was constantly asking me questions about it and after awhile I felt like I was in some sort of research project.Not a cool feeling.He was enjoying the more seedy aspects of it and I was actually getting off by telling him.My stories may have become a little too colorful.I can start thinking of myself as some sort of Legend on my own.I certainly don't need encouragement.
If I pick up that someone is asking because they think they might have a problem,then its a whole different ballgame.As a recovering addict I feel a responsibility to help anyone I can suffering from this disease.It's something I want to do.I let it be known to one guy on a surfing BB that I was in Recovery because he said he was hitting the bottle too much.I had 4 PM's the next day about guys thinking they had a problem.You never know what you are going to say that might make a difference.
I think if I was in a situation where it was being discussed on some sort of peudo-intellectual level about what addiction is,I would probably try and change the subject or just excuse myself.That requires too much energy.
Recovery is a simple program for complicated people .
We can come up with 1,000 valid reasons why we can't do it but have you ever thought of the lengths we would go to procure our poison?
Have a Happy New Year,Sarah.
Stacey........don't want to hijack Sarah's thread, but where did you move? I must have missed the posts where you talked about moving. I know when you were in MCN, you were at least 2 hours away from me, are you closer or farther away now?
So me keeping Kaylin is not an option. Although I would love to, don't think Stacey wants to come that far on a regular basis.. LOL
Stacey,
I have no idea what you are working on with your therapist. Do you talk about your addiction? Do you focus on the behavior and thoughts that kept you using? Have you worked on modifying your thoughts and behavior? Have you identified the reason(s) why you countinued to abuse drugs? If you answered yes to these questions I believe you are actively working on recovery. I'm not saying you shouldn't work the steps or go to meetings. One can never have too much recovery. But, if you are doing the above mentioned things with your therapist, you definitely are actively working on your recovery.
Big smile.....I think you are doing great! You really are whole new woman these days. If you ever doubt it, go back and read some of your threads when you were using.
I have no idea what you are working on with your therapist. Do you talk about your addiction? Do you focus on the behavior and thoughts that kept you using? Have you worked on modifying your thoughts and behavior? Have you identified the reason(s) why you countinued to abuse drugs? If you answered yes to these questions I believe you are actively working on recovery. I'm not saying you shouldn't work the steps or go to meetings. One can never have too much recovery. But, if you are doing the above mentioned things with your therapist, you definitely are actively working on your recovery.
Big smile.....I think you are doing great! You really are whole new woman these days. If you ever doubt it, go back and read some of your threads when you were using.
90 meetings in 90 days...boy that sounds all too familiar.
I work 9-5 on every week day and the daycare closes at 6.
Carol, i moved to Macon, so i think i'm closer to you now right? still too far away though.
I talk about addiction to my psych Atlas. That's the main thing we do talk about, I just keep switching psychs cause i have sincerely not found one i like.
I gotta wake up a little more.
Mrs. Sayruh! I need to email you to talk to you for a bit.
Java, if you are around, give me a bit .. it's 4 o'clock and i just woke up...whoohoo.
Happy New Year
stac
I work 9-5 on every week day and the daycare closes at 6.
Carol, i moved to Macon, so i think i'm closer to you now right? still too far away though.
I talk about addiction to my psych Atlas. That's the main thing we do talk about, I just keep switching psychs cause i have sincerely not found one i like.
I gotta wake up a little more.
Mrs. Sayruh! I need to email you to talk to you for a bit.
Java, if you are around, give me a bit .. it's 4 o'clock and i just woke up...whoohoo.
Happy New Year
stac
Stacey,
Just remember that life will always bring us days where we feel sad, lonely, depressed. For myself, I dont relate it to drug use any more. There are millions of people who have sad days and they never touched a drug in their life. Keep working with your sub doctor, keep working with the psychologists, keep working on your relationships. You have come so far and you really need to pat yourself on the back. Each of our lives is a work in progress. We are never done learning, growing, changing. But each day that we wake up and do the best we can is a successful day.
Sarah, didnt mean to venture off your post. I believe working the program will always be better than not working it. I just believe that those like Stacey may have more work ahead of them but its so important to praise the progress made thus far.
Just remember that life will always bring us days where we feel sad, lonely, depressed. For myself, I dont relate it to drug use any more. There are millions of people who have sad days and they never touched a drug in their life. Keep working with your sub doctor, keep working with the psychologists, keep working on your relationships. You have come so far and you really need to pat yourself on the back. Each of our lives is a work in progress. We are never done learning, growing, changing. But each day that we wake up and do the best we can is a successful day.
Sarah, didnt mean to venture off your post. I believe working the program will always be better than not working it. I just believe that those like Stacey may have more work ahead of them but its so important to praise the progress made thus far.
Interesting post....
I wouldn't etch in stone that someone, even "active in recovery" (in whatever fashion), wouldn't pick up again. I make no absolutes.....
However, being in active recovery makes not picking up alot more fufilling and even downright fun at times. That is what active recovery is about, not using and enjoying it and finding non-chemical ways to deal with life events that everyone experiences.
There is a person at my Early Riser AA group who calls themself a "retired alcoholic". I like that. They could come "out of retirement", but they are enjoying their "new profession". Some may say they wouldn't want to be labelled as such. But the way I look at it, when I talked to this person and we "compared notes", we weren't doing much else anyway, one would think that stuffing chemicals down our gullets was our "profession". The actions do the talking....not the words....
As for those "dinner party folks" who stated that people will pick up, no matter what. A neat thing to say for folks who are on a "crusade" to save the addict. They can't help themselves so we can....or also, since some of them might also be using a tad too much...a good excuse to keep using.
Gads, I did like what you wrote mistyeyes. Someday I would love to drop you an e-mail. I send your posts to my spouse. They gobble them up. It reinforces what they do.....
Yup, atlas
There is no sobriety by default. All that results in is a frustrated addict...(alcoholics helped me with that so, so much)
Another ElimGarak™ moment....
I wouldn't etch in stone that someone, even "active in recovery" (in whatever fashion), wouldn't pick up again. I make no absolutes.....
However, being in active recovery makes not picking up alot more fufilling and even downright fun at times. That is what active recovery is about, not using and enjoying it and finding non-chemical ways to deal with life events that everyone experiences.
There is a person at my Early Riser AA group who calls themself a "retired alcoholic". I like that. They could come "out of retirement", but they are enjoying their "new profession". Some may say they wouldn't want to be labelled as such. But the way I look at it, when I talked to this person and we "compared notes", we weren't doing much else anyway, one would think that stuffing chemicals down our gullets was our "profession". The actions do the talking....not the words....
As for those "dinner party folks" who stated that people will pick up, no matter what. A neat thing to say for folks who are on a "crusade" to save the addict. They can't help themselves so we can....or also, since some of them might also be using a tad too much...a good excuse to keep using.
Gads, I did like what you wrote mistyeyes. Someday I would love to drop you an e-mail. I send your posts to my spouse. They gobble them up. It reinforces what they do.....
Yup, atlas
There is no sobriety by default. All that results in is a frustrated addict...(alcoholics helped me with that so, so much)
Another ElimGarak™ moment....
Had a long talk with a friend yesterday on the phone and this thread came up. She believes herself to be a recovered addict. She's been clean a two years and doesn't feel it's necessary to do the program anymore. She still believes in it and thinks everyone should at least give it a go, but she herself doesn't think she needs it anymore. That she has in fact moved on . My argument (this was a healthy debate, we respect eachother too much for it to be anything but) was that, there is no cure for this disease, so you are never cured or recovered. You can be in remission or retirement as Elim said, but never "done". It will always be part of you, always lurking, waiting. Let your guard down with that kind of thinking and more than likely, you'll be back to recovering and out of retirement.
Just curious how many others think the same?
Just curious how many others think the same?
This is interesting. I believe that you can be "recovered" however it doesn't mean you should not be cautious about what can happen again.
Just because you are "recovered" doesn't mean you will always be recovered. But that's just my opinion.
Gotta run errands,
Stac
Just because you are "recovered" doesn't mean you will always be recovered. But that's just my opinion.
Gotta run errands,
Stac
I love what you shared, Rachel...I can relate very well and for me, being spiritually fit, letting God run the show and being honest, open and willing, I have a great shot at another 24hrs of sobriety....
Stacey,
At our meetings, children are always welcome and any ages...I have found a compassionate and open fellowship and my kids come sometimes and will watch the younger ones....
Sarah,
For me, I just keep doing the right thing and I've quit giving my opinion on this issue with normies....my husband is a normie and he see's the changes and the miracles daily in me but others on the outside of the rooms, I just listen....and bottom line, for me, is Elim's saying "what other people think is none of my business"...when a discussion about drunks or addicts comes up, I just smile.....
Take care,
Stacey
Stacey,
At our meetings, children are always welcome and any ages...I have found a compassionate and open fellowship and my kids come sometimes and will watch the younger ones....
Sarah,
For me, I just keep doing the right thing and I've quit giving my opinion on this issue with normies....my husband is a normie and he see's the changes and the miracles daily in me but others on the outside of the rooms, I just listen....and bottom line, for me, is Elim's saying "what other people think is none of my business"...when a discussion about drunks or addicts comes up, I just smile.....
Take care,
Stacey
