I've been reading the board a lot today and thinking.... slow day at work...mr. creep not here for the day...TG !! Anyways, thinking and thinking...I'm wondering if anyone has ever relapsed, gone back to, started again, whatever, because they were trying to get even, for revenge sake so to speak. I realized today that I spent 15 years taking care of an alcoholic spouse. A vicious, angry and abusive drunk. I can remember hiding underneath the table with the dog at night waiting for the rage to end, hoping it wouldnt be directed at me. Everything in the house being smashed. Kind of like growning up I guess. The last band I played in drugs were a big part of some of the players lives. My spouse by that time had cleaned up, no, she still drinks but it seems to have gotten better, well, we know that merry go around, its a cycle...but it DOES seem to have gotten better, she stopped smoking even, things seemed to get better..and then..., and then...it was almost as if I felt it was"my turn" then, like I wanted to get even, and I started using, and sometimes I think, well, you can just shut up when she starts talking about it because I had to deal with all her crap for 15 years...I know its not fair, I know it, I know its just another excuse, and I know there are a bunch of other issues ...but this one just really stopped me in my tracks..I dont know...just thought I'd put this out here and see what you all might think
Alrite...Con.theres deff.a link between your relapsing hevily and you putting up with yer alco partner.15yrs is a long time and from what i can gather you were clean all the more anger and need for sumthin to take the edge off.....so yeh i think once your partner cleaned up the addict in you nudged you saying ..go on nows yer chance and you took it.Now yer clean again yer gonna question all yer ridiculous passed misdeeds whilst on the gear...dont be to tough on yerself....All the best............Davey
"Yeah, well I'll show you"........yep, Constantine like Davey said........I've done that.......with an old boyfriend.........who was a crack addict...........only he hadn't used in seven years when I met him.
Then he turned me on to dope and he didn't use........then two heroin addicts bad enough............both cleaned up.........and kaboom the dude on crack he was insane...........he was a freak show and just a wackoooo nutter......and I felt so bad.............tried my best to help him.........I have never seen anything like that and I have never touched crack and I won't ever touch crack cause it's like QUICK........at least with us we can go like 18 hours without "needing" another bag.............crack it's instant.
Anyway, when he got clean off that..........in my head I figured well now it's my turn and I'll show him what it feels like..........and it's the dance of addicts....isn't it........but it sure seems that was the pattern with you and your spouse.
I'm sorry you suffered through that rage and all............but yeah why punish yourself by seeking revenge.............heck, revenge is supposed to make us feel better...........all the dope did was make you feel worse...in the long run.
***Just a thought, Con.......do ya think too ya knew you couldn't use while your partner was drinking..........because SOMEONE had to hold it together.....you had to be responsible completely and feel and understand and be all with it.
Once your partner got it together........then it was O.K. to let it all fall down?**
Seek revenge by ummmmm, swimming a mile a day and doing push ups and painting a masterpiece.........that's what I do......pffffttttt! Good post, Con!
Then he turned me on to dope and he didn't use........then two heroin addicts bad enough............both cleaned up.........and kaboom the dude on crack he was insane...........he was a freak show and just a wackoooo nutter......and I felt so bad.............tried my best to help him.........I have never seen anything like that and I have never touched crack and I won't ever touch crack cause it's like QUICK........at least with us we can go like 18 hours without "needing" another bag.............crack it's instant.
Anyway, when he got clean off that..........in my head I figured well now it's my turn and I'll show him what it feels like..........and it's the dance of addicts....isn't it........but it sure seems that was the pattern with you and your spouse.
I'm sorry you suffered through that rage and all............but yeah why punish yourself by seeking revenge.............heck, revenge is supposed to make us feel better...........all the dope did was make you feel worse...in the long run.
***Just a thought, Con.......do ya think too ya knew you couldn't use while your partner was drinking..........because SOMEONE had to hold it together.....you had to be responsible completely and feel and understand and be all with it.
Once your partner got it together........then it was O.K. to let it all fall down?**
Seek revenge by ummmmm, swimming a mile a day and doing push ups and painting a masterpiece.........that's what I do......pffffttttt! Good post, Con!
I found your post most interesting...
I read your recovery diary. I like the gaps filled in. I was bit confused by your post but in reading I see that you used very young, 13...somewhere along the line it seems as if you werent using, had it together but abuse has followed you. Not sure if the heroin was there from the past, if it is newerI am still a bit confused but any more that is just plain normal for me, lol.
I stopped using drugs when I was 18 after 6 years...long story.
When addiction became obvious with the husband and it really got bad and I was at my whits end, so confused and lost, and basically running in circles out of my mind
I ended up here, this board. started to look at me and doing the work and I found I had one deep resentment for always having to so called be the responsible one. And damn I ran with that resentment, it was perfect justification to say f*ck it, f*ck everyone
But I wasnt angry that he used, see it made sense to me cause I knew how to hide, how drugs could fix it right up but I also knew maybe even more importantly that what I would ever hide from would wait ever so patiently compounding with interest
I was angry because I couldnt, assessing blame, you are high and I cant beI have to make sure that this is ok, that is okthe kids, the housesomeone has to be here and present ( oops codependent much )and I am smiling cause I credit his using for being a good excuse for me not to, but I was still pissed
I would see his face and know straight up where he was and my mind would churn cause I could be there in my own way.and I could justify it, bad day, to stressed out, you are high, you did, she didmy mother, oh my mother, perfect fuel when I was young, and at one point in the nowand I had a resentment there I always carried I thinkthe same one always having to be the responsible one with this perfection added in, everything had to be her way alwaysno room for error
But then didnt I take that on myself. How much of it did I cause, was because of meas an adult oh hell yeah it is where I chose to step. I took the responsible role on and didn't let him be ( so not cool at all )as a child it gets weird as I dont know how much capacity we have when we are taught to be, when thrust into rolesit is a bit twisted upstill working, never seems to end.
Now looking back this is sick to mecause I couldnt and I blamed it on him flat outit is so easy to blame
But then I missed the point over the years that I didnt and wouldnt because I really didnt want tohad no need..
Until I didthen all I needed was to find an excusehe was such sweet justification
Out of spite, dont knowbut I was sure angry, so angry
My husband got clean ( well that first time in the beginning ) and I started working on me and I pick up the bottles to easily, downs and alcoholwhere it is at
And in the end it all makes sense cause I used for specific reasons when I was young and here are all those same reasons right in my face againnever having anything to do with my husbandhe was just an easy excuse to open the doorwhat I found once opened was that I had baggage, severe baggage and it so set every reaction to him, ever fear I had was based on, every little codependent behavior I had.was all me, not him at all
I am always calling people out on the family board because I know so deeply that every reaction, action is because of something in us not what the addict in our life is doing to. I mean really after the first time we allow we become players in the game and it is inside of us that holds the key
I wanted to die, I got to that point with a drug, made sense why I stopped, made even more sense why I worried that all my husband would do was die and damn I was gonna save himand here I was being all codependent and helping him at one point to do just what I feared most, dieugh
I watched my gf try to save her bfreally I know, as does she, that she wanted to save her dad.And I could tell story after story of the realizations.
It makes so much sense now.
Not sure if this helps but I have been there done that. resentments that are not dealt with and held onto to tightly never lead us to a good place, no matter where we sit in the mixThey just keep us from being well, from finding who we are, from being whole againAnything can become an outlet to distract us from looking in the mirror and truly seeing what is staring back
And it seems you know that you need to work on for you, within today, the past to find healingif you do keep working well you will find a most wonderful life of freedom aheadAnd reading your diary, I would say go back, to the beginning and fix you, find youyou are there, I promise, just lost bits and pieces of you over the years.
I worry some with what you wrote and cant help but ask is there still abuse in this relationshipmental, physicalI don't think there is any such thing as not as bad as...don't let it be comfortable, don't allow it is be acceptable because you know what will be for any situation that arises...
And also cant help but ask have you looked at codependency.anyone in an abusive relationship drug addiction present or not with the abuser, usually is codependentDamn the places a good codependent can go, and none ever pretty.anger, pain, and constant heartache/confusion rule, no matter what usually as nothing is ever about anyone but us, just usBut a good codependent makes it all about everyone butabusers do that too, addicts do that as well
Be good to you, take good care of you and dont forget to love youand find your passions, outlets to let your heart shine, you shinethink music might fit in here
Love,
Tina
I read your recovery diary. I like the gaps filled in. I was bit confused by your post but in reading I see that you used very young, 13...somewhere along the line it seems as if you werent using, had it together but abuse has followed you. Not sure if the heroin was there from the past, if it is newerI am still a bit confused but any more that is just plain normal for me, lol.
I stopped using drugs when I was 18 after 6 years...long story.
When addiction became obvious with the husband and it really got bad and I was at my whits end, so confused and lost, and basically running in circles out of my mind
I ended up here, this board. started to look at me and doing the work and I found I had one deep resentment for always having to so called be the responsible one. And damn I ran with that resentment, it was perfect justification to say f*ck it, f*ck everyone
But I wasnt angry that he used, see it made sense to me cause I knew how to hide, how drugs could fix it right up but I also knew maybe even more importantly that what I would ever hide from would wait ever so patiently compounding with interest
I was angry because I couldnt, assessing blame, you are high and I cant beI have to make sure that this is ok, that is okthe kids, the housesomeone has to be here and present ( oops codependent much )and I am smiling cause I credit his using for being a good excuse for me not to, but I was still pissed
I would see his face and know straight up where he was and my mind would churn cause I could be there in my own way.and I could justify it, bad day, to stressed out, you are high, you did, she didmy mother, oh my mother, perfect fuel when I was young, and at one point in the nowand I had a resentment there I always carried I thinkthe same one always having to be the responsible one with this perfection added in, everything had to be her way alwaysno room for error
But then didnt I take that on myself. How much of it did I cause, was because of meas an adult oh hell yeah it is where I chose to step. I took the responsible role on and didn't let him be ( so not cool at all )as a child it gets weird as I dont know how much capacity we have when we are taught to be, when thrust into rolesit is a bit twisted upstill working, never seems to end.
Now looking back this is sick to mecause I couldnt and I blamed it on him flat outit is so easy to blame
But then I missed the point over the years that I didnt and wouldnt because I really didnt want tohad no need..
Until I didthen all I needed was to find an excusehe was such sweet justification
Out of spite, dont knowbut I was sure angry, so angry
My husband got clean ( well that first time in the beginning ) and I started working on me and I pick up the bottles to easily, downs and alcoholwhere it is at
And in the end it all makes sense cause I used for specific reasons when I was young and here are all those same reasons right in my face againnever having anything to do with my husbandhe was just an easy excuse to open the doorwhat I found once opened was that I had baggage, severe baggage and it so set every reaction to him, ever fear I had was based on, every little codependent behavior I had.was all me, not him at all
I am always calling people out on the family board because I know so deeply that every reaction, action is because of something in us not what the addict in our life is doing to. I mean really after the first time we allow we become players in the game and it is inside of us that holds the key
I wanted to die, I got to that point with a drug, made sense why I stopped, made even more sense why I worried that all my husband would do was die and damn I was gonna save himand here I was being all codependent and helping him at one point to do just what I feared most, dieugh
I watched my gf try to save her bfreally I know, as does she, that she wanted to save her dad.And I could tell story after story of the realizations.
It makes so much sense now.
Not sure if this helps but I have been there done that. resentments that are not dealt with and held onto to tightly never lead us to a good place, no matter where we sit in the mixThey just keep us from being well, from finding who we are, from being whole againAnything can become an outlet to distract us from looking in the mirror and truly seeing what is staring back
And it seems you know that you need to work on for you, within today, the past to find healingif you do keep working well you will find a most wonderful life of freedom aheadAnd reading your diary, I would say go back, to the beginning and fix you, find youyou are there, I promise, just lost bits and pieces of you over the years.
I worry some with what you wrote and cant help but ask is there still abuse in this relationshipmental, physicalI don't think there is any such thing as not as bad as...don't let it be comfortable, don't allow it is be acceptable because you know what will be for any situation that arises...
And also cant help but ask have you looked at codependency.anyone in an abusive relationship drug addiction present or not with the abuser, usually is codependentDamn the places a good codependent can go, and none ever pretty.anger, pain, and constant heartache/confusion rule, no matter what usually as nothing is ever about anyone but us, just usBut a good codependent makes it all about everyone butabusers do that too, addicts do that as well
Be good to you, take good care of you and dont forget to love youand find your passions, outlets to let your heart shine, you shinethink music might fit in here
Love,
Tina
***Just a thought, Con.......do ya think too ya knew you couldn't use while your partner was drinking..........because SOMEONE had to hold it together.....you had to be responsible completely and feel and understand and be all with it.
Once your partner got it together........then it was O.K. to let it all fall down?**
Thats a good question Bryn...but on the other hand its just an excuse too isnt it...You hit it square too Davey...im questioning everything...and mistyeyes...damn if i know my thoughts are scattered :) i will try and fill some things in for you though if it helps :)...i left home at 16...moved to another city...used heavily, heroin, speed, meth, coke...what drug didnt i do is prob.a better question, returned home only when i was carried back because i was almost dead from pneumonia, parents took me in but were pretty pissed off, i didnt stay, left again for 2 or 3 years, did the streets, came back again, moved out, and proceded to get arrested, once, twice, three times, no new story there, think everyone has been there...i suffered thru alot of crap at home before i left, beatings, emotional abuse etc, parents screaming and breaking stuff...same ole same ole.....drug habits tend to form kind of quick when your that age and alone...anyways.....i was 24 when i sold everything i owned, except my guitars, left the waitress job, left my band...told no one and went out to the desert...youd be surprised what you can find in the middle of the desert...i got worse...i finally signed myself up for the military in a clear moment of either desperation or stupidity, you choose...but i tell ya what...i found myself clean and sober for the first time in my life...i got out of the military and stayed over here in germany...i remained sober and clean up until well, if were counting everything, not just the smack, guess i stayed clean until probably late 2004. i didnt start back w the heroin until like i said, like you said, like bryn and davey said, guess i got resentful, angry for being the sober one, i started my ride again w heroin at the end of 2005. so ya, its been about 2 years now or so...at first not heavy...think it was more like i felt i was getting away with something, something to hurt back i guess...jeez, i really AM seeing a lot latley...im trying to work it all out...bear with me...i dont write like Martin...damn hes good ;)...thanks guys...i need to think it out...what youve said...wow...you folks are good !
Once your partner got it together........then it was O.K. to let it all fall down?**
Thats a good question Bryn...but on the other hand its just an excuse too isnt it...You hit it square too Davey...im questioning everything...and mistyeyes...damn if i know my thoughts are scattered :) i will try and fill some things in for you though if it helps :)...i left home at 16...moved to another city...used heavily, heroin, speed, meth, coke...what drug didnt i do is prob.a better question, returned home only when i was carried back because i was almost dead from pneumonia, parents took me in but were pretty pissed off, i didnt stay, left again for 2 or 3 years, did the streets, came back again, moved out, and proceded to get arrested, once, twice, three times, no new story there, think everyone has been there...i suffered thru alot of crap at home before i left, beatings, emotional abuse etc, parents screaming and breaking stuff...same ole same ole.....drug habits tend to form kind of quick when your that age and alone...anyways.....i was 24 when i sold everything i owned, except my guitars, left the waitress job, left my band...told no one and went out to the desert...youd be surprised what you can find in the middle of the desert...i got worse...i finally signed myself up for the military in a clear moment of either desperation or stupidity, you choose...but i tell ya what...i found myself clean and sober for the first time in my life...i got out of the military and stayed over here in germany...i remained sober and clean up until well, if were counting everything, not just the smack, guess i stayed clean until probably late 2004. i didnt start back w the heroin until like i said, like you said, like bryn and davey said, guess i got resentful, angry for being the sober one, i started my ride again w heroin at the end of 2005. so ya, its been about 2 years now or so...at first not heavy...think it was more like i felt i was getting away with something, something to hurt back i guess...jeez, i really AM seeing a lot latley...im trying to work it all out...bear with me...i dont write like Martin...damn hes good ;)...thanks guys...i need to think it out...what youve said...wow...you folks are good !
Interesting story,in the Army eh!must have sorted ya out for a bit.As i said yer questioning yerself as all those thoughts of the battle of addiction come back now yer sober.....i would be on a pure downer for weeks after a good run and i was on methadone so no turkey for me to worry about.The clarity of the images you conjur up is strong ,brain tying to reconnect.....its a b****.
Take care pal.................Davey
Take care pal.................Davey
Hi constantine.....
Thanks for your kind words.
I've been going to open AA meetings for just under a year now, trying to understand my ex's situation/behaviour......well, the truth is, I went for the first six months going "yeah, that's her, that's her..." and spent the last five going "and that's me, and that's me....".....I get a lot of identification with the emotions and backgrounds and behaviours.... and even, I slowly began to realise, the drinking.....blackouts at seventeen, drinking alone, unpredictable outcomes...culminating in some behaviour that was totally out of character and which quite a few of those sharing at AA described themselves as having to put the word "yet" in front of them....I pass every test on the web for alcoholism....but of course, I'm not an alcoholic.....
What's that saying? Denial is not a river in Egypt.......
.....I'm not drinking anymore and I wonder if I'm the luckiest alcoholic in the World......I certainly feel the disease is out there in the shadows waiting for me.....anyway, all this culminated in my calling AA one night after seriously thinking about killing some bloke and having decided that wasn't a good idea, deciding that plan B was to go to the pub and get drunk instead.....fortunately, just as I reached the door some...thing flashed into my mind and wondered if plan B) wasn't actually very likely to lead to the implementation of plan A)........and what the f*** was I thinking? I was thinking madness - or something was doing my thinking for me......and proposing an alternate life, obviously.........I'll show her "edgy.....she's got no f***ing idea blah blah roar"
Deep inside me was a raging beast I'd caged decades ago that had been growing stronger and stronger all those years feeding on my resentment and self-hatred. It LOVED the idea of me drinking angry until drunk. Absolutely loved it. Kill him? I'd kill anyone who LOOKED at me....and sometimes I feel like that SOBER......That's why I was attracted to my ex; her lifestyle legitimised what IT wanted for me...and it was enraged that although I'd opened the cage door when I decided to live with her, becoming dad to her kids meant I always kept it on a leash.....while she went out and drank and did drugs with...well, some bloke, obviously.......boy was that beast yanking it's chain. She's having all the fun and leaving ME to look after business when I CAME here to have FUN???? I'll show her FUN....
Oh yes, I reckon revenge is a tasty morsel for the beast, which wants me dead as well as anyone who annoys me.....
After all, I'm the one who exiled it.
You've done so well coming back through so much constantine. Forgive me for being prescriptive, but don't you dare lose it.
Thanks for your kind words.
I've been going to open AA meetings for just under a year now, trying to understand my ex's situation/behaviour......well, the truth is, I went for the first six months going "yeah, that's her, that's her..." and spent the last five going "and that's me, and that's me....".....I get a lot of identification with the emotions and backgrounds and behaviours.... and even, I slowly began to realise, the drinking.....blackouts at seventeen, drinking alone, unpredictable outcomes...culminating in some behaviour that was totally out of character and which quite a few of those sharing at AA described themselves as having to put the word "yet" in front of them....I pass every test on the web for alcoholism....but of course, I'm not an alcoholic.....
What's that saying? Denial is not a river in Egypt.......
.....I'm not drinking anymore and I wonder if I'm the luckiest alcoholic in the World......I certainly feel the disease is out there in the shadows waiting for me.....anyway, all this culminated in my calling AA one night after seriously thinking about killing some bloke and having decided that wasn't a good idea, deciding that plan B was to go to the pub and get drunk instead.....fortunately, just as I reached the door some...thing flashed into my mind and wondered if plan B) wasn't actually very likely to lead to the implementation of plan A)........and what the f*** was I thinking? I was thinking madness - or something was doing my thinking for me......and proposing an alternate life, obviously.........I'll show her "edgy.....she's got no f***ing idea blah blah roar"
Deep inside me was a raging beast I'd caged decades ago that had been growing stronger and stronger all those years feeding on my resentment and self-hatred. It LOVED the idea of me drinking angry until drunk. Absolutely loved it. Kill him? I'd kill anyone who LOOKED at me....and sometimes I feel like that SOBER......That's why I was attracted to my ex; her lifestyle legitimised what IT wanted for me...and it was enraged that although I'd opened the cage door when I decided to live with her, becoming dad to her kids meant I always kept it on a leash.....while she went out and drank and did drugs with...well, some bloke, obviously.......boy was that beast yanking it's chain. She's having all the fun and leaving ME to look after business when I CAME here to have FUN???? I'll show her FUN....
Oh yes, I reckon revenge is a tasty morsel for the beast, which wants me dead as well as anyone who annoys me.....
After all, I'm the one who exiled it.
You've done so well coming back through so much constantine. Forgive me for being prescriptive, but don't you dare lose it.
Scattered I know, and understand ;)
Thank you for sharing more and you did just fine expressing yourself. I just wasnt sure if you basically went back outor more so knew drugs in the past and how easy a solution ( all be it a bad one ) they could be and yet didnt find yourself all wrapped up in addictions madness until now.after that resentment stuff walked in
I think if it was the second one I would say a lot more as it would work a bit better in my head, even as a resentment is a resentmentI tip toe here, as I am a guest with some boundaries as to what I say
But the abuse as a child, the physical, that mind f*ck, this back to drugs again when done and over after watching addiction play out with a partnercould it be being able to breath, even as I was pissed I felt as if I could breath, let down my guard, but more so breathI knew, well not then but I learned that I might have been resentful, but I did what I did because of my pastall my sh*t that I never dealt with. I just dead stopped one life and started a whole different one at 18...I have a lot of closets to sort through
For all the bad a resentment might be, become, they are important, like a jumping off point, or a clue as to where we might want to pay attention for us
Keep pushing, keep asking, keep searching, keep writing it out, and working it outfor you as you are worth a most wonderful life...
Big hugs,
Love,
Tina
Thank you for sharing more and you did just fine expressing yourself. I just wasnt sure if you basically went back outor more so knew drugs in the past and how easy a solution ( all be it a bad one ) they could be and yet didnt find yourself all wrapped up in addictions madness until now.after that resentment stuff walked in
I think if it was the second one I would say a lot more as it would work a bit better in my head, even as a resentment is a resentmentI tip toe here, as I am a guest with some boundaries as to what I say
But the abuse as a child, the physical, that mind f*ck, this back to drugs again when done and over after watching addiction play out with a partnercould it be being able to breath, even as I was pissed I felt as if I could breath, let down my guard, but more so breathI knew, well not then but I learned that I might have been resentful, but I did what I did because of my pastall my sh*t that I never dealt with. I just dead stopped one life and started a whole different one at 18...I have a lot of closets to sort through
For all the bad a resentment might be, become, they are important, like a jumping off point, or a clue as to where we might want to pay attention for us
Keep pushing, keep asking, keep searching, keep writing it out, and working it outfor you as you are worth a most wonderful life...
Big hugs,
Love,
Tina
