No problem 12steppers, the more the merrier, plus that's what it is here for.........thanks for taking the time to respond.....
And good points by the way. Do we have different definitions of abuse? To me, from what you posted.........abuse to me is taking MORE than prescribed (if pills etc. - like I always did) and taking when not needed. Now for other drugs, my gut tells me that ANY time you take them it's abuse. When I think about it, I feel sheepish cuz man in my day did I ever abuse.....yikes, sad. Scary.
But good points altogether. God I love getting my mind going on GOOD things, instead of the crap it sometimes gets going on and places it takes me......mind-vitamins....
Chris,
I see your point. I think self esteem plays into alot of it. or maybe a combination of these things. I personally do not have self esteem issues that I know of. (maybe because I am so damn good looking..lol j/k) But I do have a boat load of other issues that are probably a contributing factor. I do isolate and show signs of other proven reasons we are how we are...
Regards,
Tom
I see your point. I think self esteem plays into alot of it. or maybe a combination of these things. I personally do not have self esteem issues that I know of. (maybe because I am so damn good looking..lol j/k) But I do have a boat load of other issues that are probably a contributing factor. I do isolate and show signs of other proven reasons we are how we are...
Regards,
Tom
12 stepper,
Thats an easy one, when ever we take them for anything other than what they were prescribed for. When you take them to get high. In that logic, I suppose any drug use is considered abuse..hmm something to think about.
Reagrds,
Tom
Thats an easy one, when ever we take them for anything other than what they were prescribed for. When you take them to get high. In that logic, I suppose any drug use is considered abuse..hmm something to think about.
Reagrds,
Tom
Tom, I love your sense of humour.......funny man. Awesome bud....
And I don't know you (obviously only from the board)......but you HONESTLY never had any self-esteem/self-worth issues when you were using? Never?? If not, wow.......but I find that hard to believe. I can believe after some time in recovery we all start feeling better, start getting a little more self-esteem etc. - heck, I am not there yet, but that's what I'm told.....haha
But yeah, isolating, avoiding and running away - sure.........heck, I'm an addict, and professional escape artist......
And I don't know you (obviously only from the board)......but you HONESTLY never had any self-esteem/self-worth issues when you were using? Never?? If not, wow.......but I find that hard to believe. I can believe after some time in recovery we all start feeling better, start getting a little more self-esteem etc. - heck, I am not there yet, but that's what I'm told.....haha
But yeah, isolating, avoiding and running away - sure.........heck, I'm an addict, and professional escape artist......
Tom
We have a joke around here about people "smoking crack socially". LOL Some of the clients insist they can take it or leave it but if that's so, why are they in a halfway house, ya know? I love hearing an alcoholic talk about how they can smoke pot or crack, that booze is their problem. Or an addict saying they can drink, that their problem is crack or pot. I think they are missing the point of sobriety. I usually find their mug shots after they leave. They don't seem to last out there too long.
We have a joke around here about people "smoking crack socially". LOL Some of the clients insist they can take it or leave it but if that's so, why are they in a halfway house, ya know? I love hearing an alcoholic talk about how they can smoke pot or crack, that booze is their problem. Or an addict saying they can drink, that their problem is crack or pot. I think they are missing the point of sobriety. I usually find their mug shots after they leave. They don't seem to last out there too long.
12stepper......and Tommy, you folks crack me up.
Funny stuff......smoke crack socially......LMAO
Funny stuff......smoke crack socially......LMAO
12,
Yeah, I understand. I assume thats why so many people just change addiction. Its another reason I do not use anything. I am the first to say "booze was never my problem, pills were". But its always in the back of my head saying "it could have been booze". It a touchy sublect for some, I drank alchohol last feb, but have not since, but I still consider my clean date as Dec 26 (from pain pills)
Chris,
Yes, I did have self esteem issues when using, about using. Its one of the main reasons I wanted to quit. All my problems were magnified while using, and the guilt associated with it was dibilitating.
Regards,
tom
Yeah, I understand. I assume thats why so many people just change addiction. Its another reason I do not use anything. I am the first to say "booze was never my problem, pills were". But its always in the back of my head saying "it could have been booze". It a touchy sublect for some, I drank alchohol last feb, but have not since, but I still consider my clean date as Dec 26 (from pain pills)
Chris,
Yes, I did have self esteem issues when using, about using. Its one of the main reasons I wanted to quit. All my problems were magnified while using, and the guilt associated with it was dibilitating.
Regards,
tom
Tom - only about using??? Only?? I love your energy man.....your strength.....and I say that honestly, from my heart. Wish I could be more like you. How long have you been clean for??
Very good points all. I agree with you definition of abuse Chris. When the use of a prescribed med becomes a compulsion or is not taken as intended then it is abuse. Also any illegal drug use would be abuse.When I say off and on for 15 years, It's not as bad as that sounds. Maybe 3 or 4 30 pill prescriptions in that time, with the exception of immediatly after the surgery. Took them for a couple of months then. But my surgery was very successful for a long time. Over 10 years.
The o.c. definately changed my use. 1st few months not a big deal. But once I crushed them it stole my soul. Pain meds serve a legitimate purpose and not everyone is like us. To presume that is myopic at best.
Beck
The o.c. definately changed my use. 1st few months not a big deal. But once I crushed them it stole my soul. Pain meds serve a legitimate purpose and not everyone is like us. To presume that is myopic at best.
Beck
Chris,
11 months. Thanks for the compliment, but be careful what you wish for..lol I have other stuff to deal with other than self esteem. But yes, the guilt from using and keeping it hidden from my family, and the money I spent on it. I felt like whale chit. I have found through trial and error that self esteem greatly improves by doing and sticking to what you need to get done, the right things..if that makes any sense.
Regards,
Tom
11 months. Thanks for the compliment, but be careful what you wish for..lol I have other stuff to deal with other than self esteem. But yes, the guilt from using and keeping it hidden from my family, and the money I spent on it. I felt like whale chit. I have found through trial and error that self esteem greatly improves by doing and sticking to what you need to get done, the right things..if that makes any sense.
Regards,
Tom
When I started vics I hated them. I had a broken elbow and that's what they gave me after surgery. I gave them away. Then I would take a half for migraines and they didn't work so I upped it to a whole one. I felt the buzz. Quickly it went to two and so on until I couldn't stop. Same with xanax. I started out with maybe one a day and before long I was both physically and mentally addicted, because they felt good. They made me feel like a different person. I liked the feeling of not caring about anything. Sad thing is, that got way out of hand and I couldn't stop. For me, I think mentally I was set up to abuse them with my first one. Since I was a teen I liked getting high and unlike others,, I never grew out of it. For me, the only thing is total abstinence. I've tried and tried to just have one drink. Or drug. I can't do it. I accept that. It's no big deal anymore but it sure scared the bejesus out of me in the beginning. I could NOT imagine life without a buzz now and then. I think that's why I love AA so much. It DID save my life.
Hi everybody,im getting into this post and would like to share a little,in regards to self esteem(i hope i can make it FAIRLY short,lol)I believe i have low self esteem and on top of that i felt i was unhappy in my marriage...now of 23 years(which again,contributed to my low self esteem)I gained alot of weight within the first 2 years of my marriage,went from 135 pounds to eventually 260 pounds.For 19 years i weghed over 200 pounds,and i was miserable,hated myself,blamed all my problems and unhappiness on my husband.At that time i believe food was my addiction.One day(3 years ago) i woke up and decided i was tired of being tired,tired of the blame game.I started reading self help books and in the end,in one years time,i lost 120 pounds,all through diet and exercise and got down to 140 pounds.Happiest time of my life,Super happy,helathy,the marriage improved 100% because i was not that preson i was before,i finally got that self esteem,i finally relaised I was the one who had to change and make MYSELF happy.The weird thing,i was at the happiest i ever had been in my life when i started the pills.I still dont know for sure where it came from.I am still confused to this day WHY? WHY when i was so very happy would i put mysefl through this toture? Did i replace the food addiction(eventually)with the health kick(excercise&diet) then once i accomplished that turned to the pills? I just dont know,but i have to believe theres a connection somewhere.Im not 3 months clean,feeling good again,feel like ive got it all,but...im still not sure where these behaviors have come from,and i certainly dont know where i'll end up.Im hoping that by going to these AA/NA meeting,womens groups,i can finally get to the bottom of it all.Anyway,sorry for the "life story" this post just got me thinking i hope there are some answers out there for lal of us?Thanks for listening~KIM
Chris i was just getting into that thread when i relised it had been locked lol duh but it was the most interesting thread ive read in a long time jaxxxxxxxxxxx
intodeep......I can relate to a medical reason stealing your soul. I myself got a rare/odd illness that doctors still know nothing about. Don't know how I got it, how to treat it, etc. etc. - heck, I've done so much research I know more about it that some doctors!!! Doctors told me they 'exhausted' all exams and either get used to living like this or it will go away as oddly as it came. All the docotrs kept giving me was stuff for the pain, and I was in extreme pain. The illness/disease was so debilitating, and beat the crap out of my esteem, etc., since I was so involved at sports etc., and had to quit them all. That alone stole my soul, then having to quit the stuff I loved......I just stopped caring all together. I was angry, I was very angry. God, I could write and write about this.....
Yes Tom, that's makes a lot of sense to me. Tons, and I've read that before as well. (which is why I always seem to make lists, and complete those lists, and it also gives me a feeling of accomplishment - and keeps me disciplined because quite often I have the attention span of a fly, and the smallest speck on the wall can distract me - quite humourous some days, but not many - lol) Wow, 11 months, good for you. We are almost at same amount of clean time, as I am a little over 10 months. So I definitely look up to you, as I sure as you said you have your own s*** to work out, but I compare how you sound etc to me, and in some ways (many) you seem light ears ahead of me in your recovery. I don't beat myself up for it,you inspire me. Thank you Tom.
12.......and I can also relate. I loved the buzz, from any drug (wasn't picky). Okay, gonna admit something here and hope people don't laugh or make fun. For me, my DOC were pills. I "thought" in my f'ed up head that there was a certain "coolness" to taking pills, or any drugs. Heck, how many movies have we seen where they glamourize or can't find right word........but know what I mean? I remember a movie (can't remember which one) but the guy was sitting on the side of the bed and popped open a bottle of pills and chugged some down. And I thought that was cool. Cool?!?!?!?!? But that was me. Wow, see where 'cool' got me.........interesting.
Yes Tom, that's makes a lot of sense to me. Tons, and I've read that before as well. (which is why I always seem to make lists, and complete those lists, and it also gives me a feeling of accomplishment - and keeps me disciplined because quite often I have the attention span of a fly, and the smallest speck on the wall can distract me - quite humourous some days, but not many - lol) Wow, 11 months, good for you. We are almost at same amount of clean time, as I am a little over 10 months. So I definitely look up to you, as I sure as you said you have your own s*** to work out, but I compare how you sound etc to me, and in some ways (many) you seem light ears ahead of me in your recovery. I don't beat myself up for it,you inspire me. Thank you Tom.
12.......and I can also relate. I loved the buzz, from any drug (wasn't picky). Okay, gonna admit something here and hope people don't laugh or make fun. For me, my DOC were pills. I "thought" in my f'ed up head that there was a certain "coolness" to taking pills, or any drugs. Heck, how many movies have we seen where they glamourize or can't find right word........but know what I mean? I remember a movie (can't remember which one) but the guy was sitting on the side of the bed and popped open a bottle of pills and chugged some down. And I thought that was cool. Cool?!?!?!?!? But that was me. Wow, see where 'cool' got me.........interesting.
To me, the disease of addiction means that drugs effect me differently than they effect non-addicts. When I take drugs, my physical, emotional, and spiritual reaction is "I need more, I want to feel like this again as soon as possible, I don't care what the consequences may be." Non-addicts can take drugs and then put them down and not pick up again for a period of time. They don't need drugs to help them cope with life on life's terms.
To me, that means that someone can be on pain meds for legitimate reasons, even become physically dependent on them, and not be an addict. The nature of opiate pain medication is that the body develops a tolerance to it, and requires increasing amounts to achieve the same level of pain relief. Non addicts will likely become tolerant and require more, but that doesn't mean that they have the disease of addiction. At the same time, someone can take pain meds a few time, become addicted to the emotional/mental relief they get, and be an addict even if they're taking 1 pill a day.
Great topic Chris. I believe this is one of the first questions in the NA Step Working Guide.
To me, that means that someone can be on pain meds for legitimate reasons, even become physically dependent on them, and not be an addict. The nature of opiate pain medication is that the body develops a tolerance to it, and requires increasing amounts to achieve the same level of pain relief. Non addicts will likely become tolerant and require more, but that doesn't mean that they have the disease of addiction. At the same time, someone can take pain meds a few time, become addicted to the emotional/mental relief they get, and be an addict even if they're taking 1 pill a day.
Great topic Chris. I believe this is one of the first questions in the NA Step Working Guide.
Wow, that's awesome Kim, thank you for taking the time to post. You said something (a few things) that really hit home with me.......but mostly when you said it was YOU that had to make YOU happy. Strangely enough, but I can admit it - I just came to that realization a few weeks ago, and I feel I have changed slightly since. For most of my life I've always expected or was looking at people (girlfriends, etc), places and things (drugs especially) to make Chris happy. Always. Never did I realize that one one can FULLY make me happy, other than me. Sure, the other s*** can be temporary, but not long lasting and REAL. So now in my life, on my jounrey, I am working on me, being comfortable in my skin, looking inside to make me feel good, be happy, be strong and secure - all of it. Trying to learn to love myself. Thanks again Kim......appreciate it.
Thanks wackyjacky (like your name - lol).......appreciate it. I was liking it to, we had a good thing going there. BUt thank God this one is turning great as well. Good stuff.....
Thanks wackyjacky (like your name - lol).......appreciate it. I was liking it to, we had a good thing going there. BUt thank God this one is turning great as well. Good stuff.....
Great post and insight cadedhed. Very thoughtful and well spoken. Great points. I will be going back to think about what you (and most others) said for some time to come....
Thank you.
Thank you.
Chris,
Light years..no. You sound exactly as I did maybe 5-6 months ago. Give yourself a chance. People seem to get out of "the funk" at different stages. You have to admit it has slowly but surely gotten better?
Regards,
Tom
Light years..no. You sound exactly as I did maybe 5-6 months ago. Give yourself a chance. People seem to get out of "the funk" at different stages. You have to admit it has slowly but surely gotten better?
Regards,
Tom
Slowly but surely for sure Tom. But I'm an addict, I'm impatient. lol I want it NOW!!! LOL
But as I've read....."have to be patient as you're learning patience". I am taking my time though and doing what I can, as reading, praying, meetings, you folks........everything I am doing helps for sure. I have no doubt in my heart though that I am on the right path......like I said earlier though, sometimes my short attention span leads me astray temporarily, but I find my way back. And I am so glad I do...... NOT gonna give up on this journey of mine.
But as I've read....."have to be patient as you're learning patience". I am taking my time though and doing what I can, as reading, praying, meetings, you folks........everything I am doing helps for sure. I have no doubt in my heart though that I am on the right path......like I said earlier though, sometimes my short attention span leads me astray temporarily, but I find my way back. And I am so glad I do...... NOT gonna give up on this journey of mine.
Chris
I doubt if we'll laugh at you, but we will laugh WITH you. I thought that just getting high on anything made me cool. I didn't realize what an idiot getting high turned me into. Oh well, live and let live.
I doubt if we'll laugh at you, but we will laugh WITH you. I thought that just getting high on anything made me cool. I didn't realize what an idiot getting high turned me into. Oh well, live and let live.
