Of course my daughter is struggling right now and things are not working out for her (again). The common denominator in all these 'bad situations' is heroin. She now wants to go back to a detox and a rehab and start the whole process over again which is positive. This pattern keeps repeating itself over and over again. One thing that stands out is she doesn't really follow the rules. Not in a bold way, but in a few ways that 'she doesnt need to follow' where she is able to keep a string on her addiction which turns into a rope, kind of like a security blanket. There is always a tiny connection she keeps which eventually turns back into her full blown addiction. She's motivated however not 100% maybe 80% and that 20% keeps tripping her up. Its hard to watch...and very sad. I support her emotionally and I hope this time she will be able to do it. I love her so much.
Must be really frustrating. I don't think she's 100% committed yet. She knows she should and it would be a good thing. BUT does she really really want to change.
Sometimes I think people with multiple trips to rehab either want a timeout or are trying to appease someone.
Also sometimes I think some of these rehabs might be too structured an environment or provide too much(not on purpose but that's what they wind up doing). That could be what's she likes or is looking for. Her day, goals etc are determined for her, she doesn't have to think about that. Nor does she providing for herself which includes prioritizing her time and money which is spent on drugs and getting high.
The goal is getting her to want to change on her own without making a big production out of it. Theoretically she should show up at your door one day months sober after a stint in rehab.
Sometimes I think people with multiple trips to rehab either want a timeout or are trying to appease someone.
Also sometimes I think some of these rehabs might be too structured an environment or provide too much(not on purpose but that's what they wind up doing). That could be what's she likes or is looking for. Her day, goals etc are determined for her, she doesn't have to think about that. Nor does she providing for herself which includes prioritizing her time and money which is spent on drugs and getting high.
The goal is getting her to want to change on her own without making a big production out of it. Theoretically she should show up at your door one day months sober after a stint in rehab.
Sallyanna - Im sorry youre going through this. My son has never gone to rehab, so I am praying that he agrees to go. Im smart enough now to know that it isnt guaranteed to fix the problem on the first try, but the lessons they learn there are with them forever... all we can do is pray that they keep going back until it sticks. And if they dont, we pray that they dont give up. But thats out of our control. Its a hard pill to swallow. I live in a very cold country. There have been a few extreme cold alerts over the last few weeks and my inside are ripped apart at the thought of locking the door at a certain time (which were doing tonight), but its all we can do.
Sallyanna - can I ask how often you speak to your daughter? I believe she lives many miles away, if I remember correctly. Im curious how often you speak to her and what the nature of the conversations are. Are you reaching out to her, shes reaching out to you, or a combination of both?
I ask because I struggle with this. When I was in this is going to stop NOW mode, I was all over my son. This is when I was taking him to the hospital, pulling him out of drug dens, etc. Im not doing this anymore as I realize I cant, however I find it hard to hear from him when hes not home. It hurts too much. Im terrified of the texts that dont make sense, the voice that slurs, etc. Its too painful
Do you experience this?
I ask because I struggle with this. When I was in this is going to stop NOW mode, I was all over my son. This is when I was taking him to the hospital, pulling him out of drug dens, etc. Im not doing this anymore as I realize I cant, however I find it hard to hear from him when hes not home. It hurts too much. Im terrified of the texts that dont make sense, the voice that slurs, etc. Its too painful
Do you experience this?
I become terrified of the unknown. when my son is in the addiction cycle - impaired or in withdrawal. my husband starts getting more angry. Fear of whats going to happen. who is going to push the other's buttons. what kind of disaster will I come home to or get phone call about.
A few weeks ago this happened. son was going into our closet, which was locked but he opened it quickly. husband caught him. tackled him and push him into his room. he lies about why he was going in to the closet - to look for dress shoes for a funeral that passed two days before. husband screaming, begging him to move out, prayed to God to never see him again. all this and son still denies he is doing anything wrong.
at this point won't go back to rehab at hospital. I tried for a week to get him to go. Hoping that would be my way out to not let him come back home.
trouble is that son tells me dad 'beat' him, punched him, threw everything in the room at him. has bruises all over body. said he gets beat on every day. and that is why he is the way he is. this is all false. maybe it felt like all that was happening, but it didn't.
on the next week, husband pay for tires on the car. we have a few days of normal.
when my son was not living home, I was afraid for him. his safety. years later I know that it is in his hands and it is his choice. when he is on the streets he knows what he is getting into.
like others have said, this is not my son I am dealing with. it is the addict/stranger who has taken over my son. yet we keep trying to remove the hold the stranger has on our children.
A few weeks ago this happened. son was going into our closet, which was locked but he opened it quickly. husband caught him. tackled him and push him into his room. he lies about why he was going in to the closet - to look for dress shoes for a funeral that passed two days before. husband screaming, begging him to move out, prayed to God to never see him again. all this and son still denies he is doing anything wrong.
at this point won't go back to rehab at hospital. I tried for a week to get him to go. Hoping that would be my way out to not let him come back home.
trouble is that son tells me dad 'beat' him, punched him, threw everything in the room at him. has bruises all over body. said he gets beat on every day. and that is why he is the way he is. this is all false. maybe it felt like all that was happening, but it didn't.
on the next week, husband pay for tires on the car. we have a few days of normal.
when my son was not living home, I was afraid for him. his safety. years later I know that it is in his hands and it is his choice. when he is on the streets he knows what he is getting into.
like others have said, this is not my son I am dealing with. it is the addict/stranger who has taken over my son. yet we keep trying to remove the hold the stranger has on our children.
Hi YellowBirds Im happy to share with you about my daughter. She lives 9 hours away in another state. She is in this state because she chose to go to a sober living there after her last rehab. The sober living was male and female and it was very unstructured and there were too many people and there was active drug use. There are very good sober livings and very structured ones and this one was not good. She relapsed and left and found a roommate and got an apartment.
I talk to my daughter 1-3 times per week. She either calls me or I call her. Rarely a week goes by where we don't communicate. Right now we have been talking daily because a close friend of hers died a week ago from an overdose...very sad...She is very upset and I think very scared and feels very lost.
My daughter is 25 and when she was your son's age she was very much as you describe him. She was just wreckless and running off quit school and just 'mentally gone'. It was like trying to grab smoke. I empathize with you because I know how heartbreaking it was and how hard it was because we couldn't reason with her and she was basically a hot mess. Well after numerous hospitalizations and a whole lot of other stuff we were advised to 'send her away' because she was such a danger to herself and to us (at that time). It was a living hell for 2.5 years before this point.
When we informed her we were 'sending her away' (she was still a minor). She freaked out, couldn't believe we would do such a thing, cried, begged, so on and so on.The adolescent psychiatrist at the hospital was super. He had been one for 25 yrs and he came to every meeting with our daughter and my husband and I. He was very serious yet kind and she respected and liked him alot because he listened to her on his rounds and had good testing done on her. We told her what she would have to do not to go and she miraculously went back to school, quit running away, stopped whatever drug she was doing at the time (was not heroin at that time), graduated HS and went off to college. He also found she had TLE which was also attributing to her behavior and the right medication really helped. For about 4 years she functioned fairly well not perfect but much greatly improved from where she was.
Then she tried heroin I think smoking at first then started injecting about 2 years ago and she's been fighting ever since to get off. There's no 'high' anymore she just does it to prevent from getting dope sick. Its an AWFUL drug like a parasite that destroys its host. It has such a strong grip with its physical dependence. She is miserable on it and has been sober once for 64 days. 60 of the days have been in rehab and she was sober 4 days out then relapsed. Its pathetic to watch over and over again she is very frustrated and deperate and is now looking again.
I let her manage her addiction she does all the looking and researching on her own. She very resourceful and if she asks me to look at a place I will look at it and give her my opinion otherwise I'm totally hands off. I give her full ownership and she knows she can't come home. I'm not qualified to help her and the addiction would just destroy me too. She never gives up and she keeps trying and I only have admiration for her and sadness at the same time. Its hard, as we all know, to watch a loved one struggle so much.
YellowBirds I hope in some way my experience and my daughter's experience helps you and your son. I'm still hopeful and I always encourage her and tell her I love her always.
I talk to my daughter 1-3 times per week. She either calls me or I call her. Rarely a week goes by where we don't communicate. Right now we have been talking daily because a close friend of hers died a week ago from an overdose...very sad...She is very upset and I think very scared and feels very lost.
My daughter is 25 and when she was your son's age she was very much as you describe him. She was just wreckless and running off quit school and just 'mentally gone'. It was like trying to grab smoke. I empathize with you because I know how heartbreaking it was and how hard it was because we couldn't reason with her and she was basically a hot mess. Well after numerous hospitalizations and a whole lot of other stuff we were advised to 'send her away' because she was such a danger to herself and to us (at that time). It was a living hell for 2.5 years before this point.
When we informed her we were 'sending her away' (she was still a minor). She freaked out, couldn't believe we would do such a thing, cried, begged, so on and so on.The adolescent psychiatrist at the hospital was super. He had been one for 25 yrs and he came to every meeting with our daughter and my husband and I. He was very serious yet kind and she respected and liked him alot because he listened to her on his rounds and had good testing done on her. We told her what she would have to do not to go and she miraculously went back to school, quit running away, stopped whatever drug she was doing at the time (was not heroin at that time), graduated HS and went off to college. He also found she had TLE which was also attributing to her behavior and the right medication really helped. For about 4 years she functioned fairly well not perfect but much greatly improved from where she was.
Then she tried heroin I think smoking at first then started injecting about 2 years ago and she's been fighting ever since to get off. There's no 'high' anymore she just does it to prevent from getting dope sick. Its an AWFUL drug like a parasite that destroys its host. It has such a strong grip with its physical dependence. She is miserable on it and has been sober once for 64 days. 60 of the days have been in rehab and she was sober 4 days out then relapsed. Its pathetic to watch over and over again she is very frustrated and deperate and is now looking again.
I let her manage her addiction she does all the looking and researching on her own. She very resourceful and if she asks me to look at a place I will look at it and give her my opinion otherwise I'm totally hands off. I give her full ownership and she knows she can't come home. I'm not qualified to help her and the addiction would just destroy me too. She never gives up and she keeps trying and I only have admiration for her and sadness at the same time. Its hard, as we all know, to watch a loved one struggle so much.
YellowBirds I hope in some way my experience and my daughter's experience helps you and your son. I'm still hopeful and I always encourage her and tell her I love her always.
Oh Sallyanna, I'm sorry - sometimes I think our kids say what they know we want to hear to "show" us they are trying & then we think they are trying to we give a little help. A counselor told me once that if we give an addict even $1 for gas, bus, etc. that is $1 more they have for drugs. So now my husband & I tell our son that he is the only person who can figure out what help he needs & we hope he makes that decision to help himself. BUT, he does NOT live with us.
My son has been to rehab 3 or 4 times, all times he never followed through with aftercare. No sponsor, no meetings, no nothing "I know what I have to do". We THINK he was sober for about 1 year but now I believe he was just more clever at hiding it. He is now going to my youngest son's girlfriend for help because my youngest made the mistake of "lending" him $300 before Christmas.
I love him and always will, but I hate, despise the person his addiction has made him. I can't stand to see him, hear him and listen to his crap.
My son has been to rehab 3 or 4 times, all times he never followed through with aftercare. No sponsor, no meetings, no nothing "I know what I have to do". We THINK he was sober for about 1 year but now I believe he was just more clever at hiding it. He is now going to my youngest son's girlfriend for help because my youngest made the mistake of "lending" him $300 before Christmas.
I love him and always will, but I hate, despise the person his addiction has made him. I can't stand to see him, hear him and listen to his crap.
Sallyanna - I identified with your description of trying to control your daughter at a young age as trying to catch smoke. Thats exactly what it felt like. When he was out of control in the summer it was exactly as you described. I live in Canada so we cant force our son into rehab, even though hes a minor. He had the right to hurt himself even at 14. Its so wrong. We even considered signing off our parental rights to Childrens Aid if they could force him into treatment (at our expense!), but even they couldnt. The best they could do was send him to a group home where hed run away - they acknowledged he was a flight risk - and he would be on the streets.
I just learned that he was smoking meth back then. That explains the crazy behaviour. He was like an animal. Were not there anymore now. Since we kicked him and his girlfriend out of the basement he has been out of the house most of the time, but when he is home he behaves reasonably normally... but I know it doesnt mean hes clean. He told me he was clean this morning but refused to take a urine test because he doesnt have to pee. Thats a diversion. He is absolutely still using, probably very heavily. He squats at a flophouse where serious drug use occurs. I spoke to him about rehab again and he said he thinks he can do it alone. Thats bulls*** - he cant do it alone, he just doesnt want to stop using.
Im at an appointment... will write more in a bit.
I just learned that he was smoking meth back then. That explains the crazy behaviour. He was like an animal. Were not there anymore now. Since we kicked him and his girlfriend out of the basement he has been out of the house most of the time, but when he is home he behaves reasonably normally... but I know it doesnt mean hes clean. He told me he was clean this morning but refused to take a urine test because he doesnt have to pee. Thats a diversion. He is absolutely still using, probably very heavily. He squats at a flophouse where serious drug use occurs. I spoke to him about rehab again and he said he thinks he can do it alone. Thats bulls*** - he cant do it alone, he just doesnt want to stop using.
Im at an appointment... will write more in a bit.
I just got back from a therapy appointment. It was helpful. We talked about me feeling like I'm not doing enough, which I struggle with. As my son is a very young addict, I feel there's so much more that I SHOULD be doing... but I also realize that there's a limit to what I can do. I can't control my son. He needs to agree to change, otherwise I'll continue trying to 'catch smoke.' It just won't work. Been there, done that - it didn't help.
Sallyanna - I asked about the nature of your relationship with your daughter because I'm thinking about the future with my son. I used to try to track him down, know where he was at all times, etc., but I stopped that. I feel some guilt about this but I can't do that anymore for my own health. The only way I can move forward and go to work each day is to literally not think about it, which is easy when he's not home. I can "let go" when he's not in my sight (I feel terribly guilty about this). I worry that he will only get worse and be on the streets in his 20's, and I wonder about my ability to continue a relationship with him where we communicate regularly if this happens. It tears me apart to see or hear him in distress, so not seeing or hearing about it helps... but I also want to maintain a relationship and let him know that I love him, I have faith in him, and I believe he can make the right choices if/when he decides to. This is my dilemma.
My therapist reminded me today that nobody will be able to look at me and say, as a mother, that I didn't do everything in my power to stop this. The truth is, we can't "control" our children. We can only love them and support them when they take steps in the right direction. Outside of that, all we can do is set boundaries to protect ourselves and not enable destructive behaviour.
I think about an incident that occurred over the Christmas holidays. I found my son high on a dissociative drug in the basement. He was alone and looked terrified, calling out for help with slurred speech and an unstable gait. I talked to him about the incident the next day and described what I thought of as him looking scared. He said he doesn't remember feeling scared, which was interesting. As a mother I agonize over the thought of him being scared, picturing him feeling scared and vulnerable out there on the streets... but he sees it differently, going so far as to say he LIKES the feeling of being out of control. It was a wake-up call.
Our children will not change until they decide to. It's a tough pill to swallow, but this is not something we can control. We can influence them with the choices we make (by not enabling), but we cannot control it. Only they can.
Sallyanna - I asked about the nature of your relationship with your daughter because I'm thinking about the future with my son. I used to try to track him down, know where he was at all times, etc., but I stopped that. I feel some guilt about this but I can't do that anymore for my own health. The only way I can move forward and go to work each day is to literally not think about it, which is easy when he's not home. I can "let go" when he's not in my sight (I feel terribly guilty about this). I worry that he will only get worse and be on the streets in his 20's, and I wonder about my ability to continue a relationship with him where we communicate regularly if this happens. It tears me apart to see or hear him in distress, so not seeing or hearing about it helps... but I also want to maintain a relationship and let him know that I love him, I have faith in him, and I believe he can make the right choices if/when he decides to. This is my dilemma.
My therapist reminded me today that nobody will be able to look at me and say, as a mother, that I didn't do everything in my power to stop this. The truth is, we can't "control" our children. We can only love them and support them when they take steps in the right direction. Outside of that, all we can do is set boundaries to protect ourselves and not enable destructive behaviour.
I think about an incident that occurred over the Christmas holidays. I found my son high on a dissociative drug in the basement. He was alone and looked terrified, calling out for help with slurred speech and an unstable gait. I talked to him about the incident the next day and described what I thought of as him looking scared. He said he doesn't remember feeling scared, which was interesting. As a mother I agonize over the thought of him being scared, picturing him feeling scared and vulnerable out there on the streets... but he sees it differently, going so far as to say he LIKES the feeling of being out of control. It was a wake-up call.
Our children will not change until they decide to. It's a tough pill to swallow, but this is not something we can control. We can influence them with the choices we make (by not enabling), but we cannot control it. Only they can.
When I feel guilty about 'letting go', I read (and re-read, and re-read again) this quote from the book I mentioned in previous posts:
Sometimes love means doing nothing, and letting go is not the same thing as giving up
Sometimes love means doing nothing, and letting go is not the same thing as giving up
YellowBirds as hard as it is, don't beat yourself up because you are doing the best you can with a very complicated situation. We all do the best we can and we all love our children. I know you love your son.
Even with my daughter, I feel badly I won't let her live with me. I know if I did, I wouldn't be able to function and go to work. I'm single and live off what I bring home. Plus it's not good for her because it would just make her comfortable and not seek help.
When I do have contact with my daughter, I always try to be positive and encouraging. She feels bad enough I'm never angry with her or shame her.
For me, it does take a certain amount of detachment in order to cope and protect myself. I think it's a healthy detachment though. It doesn't mean I don't care about her.
I really like your quote. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Even with my daughter, I feel badly I won't let her live with me. I know if I did, I wouldn't be able to function and go to work. I'm single and live off what I bring home. Plus it's not good for her because it would just make her comfortable and not seek help.
When I do have contact with my daughter, I always try to be positive and encouraging. She feels bad enough I'm never angry with her or shame her.
For me, it does take a certain amount of detachment in order to cope and protect myself. I think it's a healthy detachment though. It doesn't mean I don't care about her.
I really like your quote. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Sallyanna - Thank you. Does your daughter still ask you to do things for her or ask if she can come back home? That would be hard for me. You describe her as resourceful, which is such an important trait. I wish my son was resourceful. I dont see that right now.
Ideally, if my son does not stop using drugs and continues to live his life this way, I would want the type of relationship where we can communicate and he can know that hes loved - without shame - but I am not put in the position of having to deal with his crises over and over again. Is that where you are? Does she call you in distress and ask for things?
Ideally, if my son does not stop using drugs and continues to live his life this way, I would want the type of relationship where we can communicate and he can know that hes loved - without shame - but I am not put in the position of having to deal with his crises over and over again. Is that where you are? Does she call you in distress and ask for things?
YellowBirds my daughter has asked twice since the sober living did not work out which has been about 2 months ago. I tell her she knows she can't live with me (have already established this with her) because its not good for her or me. She knows, she just tests me I think and I never waver. Its not easy but I know it's best.
She really never asks me for anything except my opinion on something or to talk about her next plan of action which she brings up. I always let her lead the conversation. I don't ask questions and really try to let her learn to guide her life as best she can. By letting her figure things out and problem solve it only helps her in the long run.
I see my daughter as a person with an addiction. I never call her an addict. I see the addiction as a separate entity as my daughter. Its something she has but it's not her if that makes sense.
I hope this helps you in some way. I'm happy for all the sharing we do on this site. Its very helpful and good to know others can relate to what we are going through.
She really never asks me for anything except my opinion on something or to talk about her next plan of action which she brings up. I always let her lead the conversation. I don't ask questions and really try to let her learn to guide her life as best she can. By letting her figure things out and problem solve it only helps her in the long run.
I see my daughter as a person with an addiction. I never call her an addict. I see the addiction as a separate entity as my daughter. Its something she has but it's not her if that makes sense.
I hope this helps you in some way. I'm happy for all the sharing we do on this site. Its very helpful and good to know others can relate to what we are going through.
Sallyanna - thanks for the reminder about wording (addict vs person with addiction). Language is important.
