Hi everyone - I have read a ton but never in my life posted on a message board or forum of any kind so please please forgive me if I am breaking any unspoken rules that anyone should know. I haven't found a real direct answer to my fears/questions - I mean I guess I have found a lot but maybe just not many responses coming from others starting at my dosage/usage level- I have been on a max of 85mg a day of oxy/roxy for three years (100mg a day of hydro as alternate at times) SO SO SO ready to get off but I am a total pathetic weakling when it comes to any form of w/d's!!! like four hours with out a lil dose kills me!!! - I have only ever taken orally- never tried any other types or forms EVER- I honestly don't ever ever get high (beyond just a relief of pain euphoria) or even wanna get high I just can't handle WD :(
I don't and have not ever suffered from any kind of real pain aside from this addiction that began recreationally I am perfectly healthy 40 year old petite female- happily married and have a wonderful 23 year old son who just got his bachelors and a wonderful new job!
However this addiction is destroying my life (long story don't wanna bore you) I wanna get on suboxone and think I am a great candidate and have wonderful private health insurance (hubby is employed by the County) but I am scared to death about these precipitated WD's I hear of and I hear if you just wait long enough u can avoid them - I seriously can not imagine making it more than 8 hours with out a dose - i hear of people waiting 24 hours and STILL experiencing them and I am like "24 hours OMG I could never" I am not on any other kinds of drugs either prescribed or recreational NOTHING not even so much as a tums!!! And I never have been on mental health or benzo's or anything (ok I have taken a xanax to fly on a plane cross country) but 2-3 hours after a 7.5mg dose of oxy and I am suffering pretty bad (I guess I am weak or maybe it is more mental but regardless it is unbearable enough for me to continue this vicious cycle). I feel like based on all I have read my use level is lower than most and I am just hoping to hear if anyone can relate and if anyone successfully started suboxone after just 6-8hr of last 7.5 dose of oxy without experience. Thank you all in advance for any any of your time and consideration!!!!
Hi there. I'm glad you wrote to this forum. Suboxone will take your withdrawals away as soon as it gets into your system. I'm not a doctor but I know from my own experience. Going from oxy to suboxone is not a problem. I know a lot of sites tells you to wait 24 hours but if you feel very bad after about 7-8 hours and start withdrawing from oxy you will be fine taking suboxone. As long as you are actually in withdrawals.
Now my question to you is do you know how difficult it is to stop suboxone and how miserable you will be for a very very long time once you decide to stop it? I've stopped taking suboxone about a week and a half ago and still feel withdrawals. It's mostly anxiety and depression but those symptoms are very worst for me. You might be different... decision is yours. Just please read about length of withdrawals from suboxone and oxy. Suboxone had a very long half life and stays in your system forever. Where oxy has way shorted half life time. I'm not saying suboxone didn't help lots of people to stop taking their drug of choice but after all what you will be doing is substituting one drug for another. Again, I'm not telling you what to do with your life but please weigh prons and cons of both drugs. Ultimately the decision is yours to make! Good luck!
Now my question to you is do you know how difficult it is to stop suboxone and how miserable you will be for a very very long time once you decide to stop it? I've stopped taking suboxone about a week and a half ago and still feel withdrawals. It's mostly anxiety and depression but those symptoms are very worst for me. You might be different... decision is yours. Just please read about length of withdrawals from suboxone and oxy. Suboxone had a very long half life and stays in your system forever. Where oxy has way shorted half life time. I'm not saying suboxone didn't help lots of people to stop taking their drug of choice but after all what you will be doing is substituting one drug for another. Again, I'm not telling you what to do with your life but please weigh prons and cons of both drugs. Ultimately the decision is yours to make! Good luck!
Thanks so much for the reply - do you mind if I ask how long you were on subs and what dosage. Did you taper off them?Do you take anything for the depression/anxiety? yes I do agree those are some of the worst symptoms to endure! Thanks again and I hope your symptoms subside for you real soon!
I was buying subs from the street and was on them for about 6 months. I wasn't taking more than 6mg a day total and yes I tried to taper since the beginning of August. At first it was fine. I reduced my dose to about 1mg a day pretty easy but once I got under 1mg it was very difficult. I was pretty much in withdrawals all the time. So at some point at the end of August I took 2 mg in one day to make me feel a bit better and went back to taper the next day. I stayed on .75 mg for another two weeks and just stopped. I was in bed with pretty bad anxiety and depression for a few days and to be honest with you came to the point I didn't want to live anymore. This is how bad it was. Now your situation is a bit different because you are married. I live alone and don't have many friends. I got divorced about year and a half ago and all my friends stayed with my ex.... they were mostly his friends. So I was very lonely with very little support from anyone. I still am by myself through all of this and it's not fun. I couldn't taper lower than.75mg nor did I see a reason for it because I was in constant withdrawals. So I stopped on Friday, September 15. I also have to be honest with you about taking one Norco every now and then to help me get through this. I never take more than one 5/325Norco pill a day and not every day. So I'm not completely clean as of today. Just had to take 1/2 of Norco about 20 minutes ago because my anxiety was just killing me. I am planning on taper myself off Norco pills and will have to find a way of dealing with my emotional problems in some other way besides taking a pill. Let me know if you have any other questions. I'll be glad to help you if I can
I'm sorry to hear of your struggles have you ever tried any support groups or meetings? Do you work? Is there anything wrong with staying on .75mg of subs for like life? I do understand that I am swapping one addiction for another I just have to believe the subs would've the much lesser of two evils for starters cheaper, safer, legal and can be helped and monitored by a physician so since I have tried on my own to quit the pills and failed I have to do something to at least get my life better as I have isolated immensely over the past 6 months.
Well... you could stay on subs for the rest of your life if you buy it legally. Not only was I buying them from now he Street but I was actually buying them from my house x... I was giving him a power over me and it just had to stop. I could tell my doctor about this because I'm in the process of getting life insurance and can't afford this to be on my medical records...
yes, I do work. I actually own my own business but I work alone, no employees and I don't see clients very often ... I have one best friend who has been giving me a huge support in this! I tried going to AA meetings but they creep me out .... plus I'm not like others who can open up to the complete strangers. I have counselors( it's a married couple) I go to every two weeks and I really like and trust them. I think over all I'm improving but it's not easy.
What have you decided to do about your pills?
yes, I do work. I actually own my own business but I work alone, no employees and I don't see clients very often ... I have one best friend who has been giving me a huge support in this! I tried going to AA meetings but they creep me out .... plus I'm not like others who can open up to the complete strangers. I have counselors( it's a married couple) I go to every two weeks and I really like and trust them. I think over all I'm improving but it's not easy.
What have you decided to do about your pills?
Hey there! Read your post n wanna respond more in depth tomorrow but heading to bed soon, I made another post about starting subs! I found a dr and have an appointment tomorrow at 4pm so excited!!!! Thanks for everything!!!!
Good luck with everything. You will get it figured out. Just don't give up
I did it!!!!! Just took my first does at 7:17pm It is now 8:15pm I took a half-and my WD symptoms have subsided drastically but not completely and I do have quite a bad headache still- but regardless this is so so so so doable I flushed my last few pills down the toilet 25 min after my dose!!!!! Debating taking the other half in hopes of eliminating these lingering symptoms Dr said take half and 30min later take another if all symptoms are not gone so I think that's what I am gunna do!!!! Thank you so much for your support!!!!
Glad to hear that you are doing better. My only advice to you is try to stay on the lowest dose of subs possible. They are ready difficult to come off and believe me, at some point you will want to stay completely clean
Hi, I'm just starting to post on line. I found your post after reading many people's experiences with withdrawal. 4 1/2 years ago I was prescribed Suboxone and told that it would help stabilise my day to day experience of anxiety after i stopped 'dabbling' with opioids (I was not using much, or often, compared to what I read online it was tiny and i feel like a wimp with withdrawals, but I had broken up with partner and my son was with my mother who wouldn't let me stay anymore as she just found breast cancer and so for the duration of her treatment I lived in my car - at which stage she took custody of my son - and kept my savings- and I had no knowledge of the custody case, was visiting regularly and confessing to spending time with people in town whom she considered "lower class undesirables" - even though they were just kind and let me stay, and yes I was so very naiive, but quite lost and no 'plan' was acceptable to her. I was making poppy tea in between 10ml per day of donated oxy, or sometimes a bottle of wine, but was demonised and shunned. The more honest I was the the more I was shunned and I sought 12 step help but didn't 'get' the program, so, 4ml of suboxone was going to 'immunise' me from temptation during such greif from the 'how can I fix my life and get my son back- sitch', which was traumatic and I felt tricked into trusting family, they just wanted my son, he saved their marriage and gave mum a reason to live. Anyway its a family disease I've learned, but thats my circumstances). Suboxone I now strongly believe is MOST helpful if used for 2 or 3 weeks - tapered down from 8ml to 2 ml in the first 10 days and SUPPORTED by some strategy that helps one face one's fears and emotional debris FULL ON. Take that time as the opportune time. Be aware that the relief is a trap. My doctor said there are NO withdrawals from Suboxone but he's a big business man and no long term studies had been done. I so regret trusting a doctor. Any other chemical I put in my body in my younger years was only done after extensive research. I exprimented with psychedelics like a nerd scientist who was 20 years old, enlivened by Uni and travel, eco-bush-rave parties and bat-s*** passionate about health and environmental change (lol, clich confused art student wanker) and I LOATHED heroin users, couldn't understand why anyone would risk it for what looked revolting. Age 29 with a boy in grade 1 and a man-child partner, work, study, the pain from my neck, emotional exhaustion and 'keeping up appearances', I was ripe for a fall and no elders healthy enough to ask advice from, in my arrogant opinion, I trusted my parter and his mate with low doses - just so i could function - I was in denial, unapproachable and didn't know it. Now I am still struggling to get free from this chemical king size drag, because the withdrawals get worse the longer I was on suboxone, I tried many things suggested to me through rehab and 12 steps, I tried to keep up study and work but 1 year ago, age 41, I'm finally starting to understand the 12 step program, which helps integrate trauma - and experiences of heaven/samhadi/anata/ non dual awakening - which my family shunned- and recently went to a great part of Australia for a month with an N.A/A.A friend and it was surprisingly easy to abstain from Suboxone for 4-5 days, but then I'd have a tiny rescue dose to stop back pain and cramps, and - problem- I had to have my full 6ml once a week at pharmacy and show them I'd swallowed it, but I could do the next 4-5 days again, and it really suprised me that being anonymous in a great area, close to enough meetings to go daily, and how happy i was - spiritually open minded and willing and doing 'the program'. Its hard to get a N.A. sponsor as suboxone is new in rural Australia and as I had sexual trauma added to the sitch 2 years ago, members are cautious, plus women with clean time are rare and have numerous 'sponsees'. For ages members said "hey you ARE clean, cos yr following doctor's prescribed course". No. Once I had visited many groups to learn, especially city ones, I can't fairly say I'm clean. I'm on 2ml one day, and 4ml every seccond day and back in my home town living alone i submit to an extremely slow taper and abstain from all drugs (alcohol being a drug too) and accept steps 1-4 daily, love my meetings (even if there are some clicky Christians there, and some 13th steppers, jerks, etc, I persist and find the elders there to be IMMENSELY helpful. I accept it's for life - one day at a time - reel in the projections- be as honest as poss, learn meditation (without forgetting its NOT goal orientated - lol- equanimity- new way of thinking - noting attatchments and fabrications) and it suxs, oh it suxs, looking at how long this taper will take. I regret i didn't research Suboxone and I didn't note the 12 step truth that "half measures availed us nothing", and I could have dropped lower but the "unmanageability" of my anxieties and anger and sadness (resentments and self-seeking) was too much. I hope you can taper down with a PLAN and a sponsor. This is a s*** drug to be on long term. Shockingly difficult to get off if you are still hanging on to a day to day 'old environment'. Get a naturopath on set and if you are rich DO the spiritual retreats, yoga, embodiment, float tanks, wilderness therapy, ordeal/peak experience therapy, holotropic breathwork, learn to use breath and find refuge in a spiritual community who can laugh with you as you experience character defects and self importance, laughing at one's self with others in recovery is so fab. The ball and chain to the big pharmaceutical companies is just that, and costs vary, and I could only get an 'away from home' 28 day script once a year, and if i don't lower my dose in private- if i tell a doctor first, they will force me, ready or not. Doctor's dont support you taking a day off in between doses, even though its half life is what it is, 8ml a day WILL build up, will give you a long term side affect and you will have to re-train your body chemistry to feel pleasure and pain physically and, wow, doctors DONT go there! Find an ally who isnt cuffed to insurance companies - if you can read and write and jump in cold water you got more than most. Im grateful for my life. 11 years ago I was a wimp, it was in my mind, and I can only accept full responsibility for walking into the suboxone trap. It becomes unmanageable vey quickly, but by then you are hooked. I hope you can do a 2-4 week plan, respect 1ml is very powerful, shockingly. But i see women suffer a month or two over a year or two and do well if they give their LIFE to recovery, as full of errors as 12 step programs are, i know the courage to try, to make mistakes in behaviour/perceptions is all a part of great growth. Statistcs say 2% but secular stuff is ruled by insurance and clinic boards and community clinic talk therapy bean counting businesses have to talk in those terms. Annual budget stuff, nothing to do with the client really. Find an ally, use the phone, find catalysts for wholistic healing, whatever speaks to the truth in your heart, not what makes your sense of identity and role, as that will change, and become the stuff of great humour. Don't expect family to 'get you', and don't make loved ones hostages of this trip of fear. Its gonna take some deeply personal creativity and I applaud your courage to reach out on line. Try to be on 2 ml in a month with back-up meds for constitutional strength, temp sysmtom relief such as cramps and work with a plan with someone who knows suboxone is not a long term health thing. Its a stay alive and get yr s*** together thing, and honest people that are 15 years clean have amazing insights into the self, go camping with some N.A retreats SOON, and be brave, find your voice, feel yourself getting real, use the pain as best as poss, and when you fail, start again, as it might be success in diguise, recovery is a great life. 'I am not responsible for my disease, but i am responsible for my recovery', and I am not christian, but i am open minded to all spiritual tradition and folk. This is my meditation, learning. Wish you well!
oops thats obviously written on a tiny phone!
I was shooting heroin for 3 years btwn the ages of 22-25. Suboxone will not work for heroin! I know there is a lot of stuff on the web saying that it can cure all opiates but in my experience once you pass Oxys, a rapid detox is the way to go. I was clean for 7 years but like a moron i took a prescription for percocet when i had kidney stones and got back on the never ending opiate train. I now use suboxone and IT WORKS IF YOUR MIND IS READY FOR IT. There are no physical cravings, but it is important to change your mental routine. Everybody has their routine when taking opiates whether you look foward to taking them or you feel you need them to have a good time. Breaking your mental routine is the hardest part. The first day of suboxone i used and 8mg film cut into quarters theoughout the day. Day two i used a quarter in the morning a quarter in the evening. Day 3 the same. Suboxone works for all your physical withdrawals. Yes i do take valium on occations to take the edge off and i have never had a problem. When i did my rapid detox from heroin i was given a naltrexone implant as well as being prescribed valium so there is a connection btwn the two. You know your body and you know what you can handle. Help is out there you just have to be ready to accept it
hi I'm guessing you've got a lot of advice already but here's mine; I have been on methadone for about 4 years steadily now, before that I got off and it was the hardest thing I've ever done other than natural childbirth. I used same as you started with oxy. I could do it kick it but not make it stick so i decided to go on methadone a friend suggested it. For some ppl it's great for me too, I'll say overall I think it did help but I have also felt ill effects, I feel opiates some... can affect mood......I would not advise anyone to get on anything like methadone or suboxone ......because it is soooo hard t get off way harder than oxy or hydros.... So my advise: don't do it unless your planning on being on it for a long time years to life. Right now i am looking for advice for getting off with less withdrawal than last time it was horrible i never want to go through it again.... but we are human and i also believe and know this is true that it is a regulating levels of pain, emotions feelings mental and physical. People definitely need support mentally and physically, every need taken care of so they can concentrate on getting off drugs. Anyways we are strong but humans we have weakness and vulnerability and I think we need to help and support each other more as a community and society. that's my opinion
Sorry, I have not read any other replies so I apologize if I am repeating myself, but I was on a pretty hefty heroin habit (only snorted, did not shoot it) for 2 years. I only tried to quit once before I finally did it for good two months ago. But that first time, I took an 8 mg suboxone after about 15 hours and I went into CRAZY precipitated withdrawal. It was awful. Two months ago when I quit for good I went 36 hours cold turkey before I took a sub for fear of that happening again and that was not even as bad as what I experienced when taking it too soon. So make SURE you wait the full time or you'll regret it and just go back to the drug. And one other thing, if you do take suboxone, please be careful. I was prescribed 2 12 mg subxone a day ("or more as needed" per doc), but I NEVER took that much. Start out with a low dose and if you need more work your way up. Unless you don't care and want to still have to take something everyday and STILL wake up with withdrawals until you take your subuxone, taper off the subs, too. As I said, I was prescribed 2 12mg a day, and now I take 0.5 mg twice a day and plan on continuing to cut them in half every few days until I'm down to nothing. I quit the worst drug and don't want to be a slave to the meds that "help me". I just want to be free of addiction to anything. I also don't have insurance, though, so I am coming from a different place. The subxone will help you for sure so I don't mean to sounds judgy. I have a friend who has been on them for 5 years and looks at it like waking up and taking blood pressure meds or any other necessary, daily meds. But if you are looking to wake up, not miserable/in "withdrawal" be careful and aware of what you are taking. I am a chemical engineer and I will always respect doctors, science, and modern medicine but I realize there is a push from pharmaceutical companies and sometimes doctors are so focused on getting the patient off of their vice, they don't worry about suBs and then the physical dependence just shifts to subxone and you're still addicted. Sorry for the long post, hope this helps and sorry if I repeated what others have already said _()_/ . Good luck! And btw - I was the same way and could not handle withdrawal for even an hour. I could not stand being even a little bit miserable, but honestly, I just told myself "I'm not going to die, and after this I won't have to feel like this again". I'm a petite female as well and never have thought of myself as "strong" (inside or out, lol) but I did it, so I feel if I can do it anyone can!!
Vallyn how long did you wait after your last dose to take the subs? Glad it worked for you!
Annette,
We are copying your post to a new thread for you called Experience Getting Off Subs?
- the moderators
We are copying your post to a new thread for you called Experience Getting Off Subs?
- the moderators
I wish my doctor had told me any of this when I got on suboxone. Now he's dumped me to go through this alone. He told me the only thing he could do was make and appointment and write me my script. He said he's got a business to run.
Wow, nice Dr. Tiffy. sounds like this guy needs a good old fashioned beat down. Find a good GP, tell him what is going on and see if he can prescribe Clonodine and some Ambien. this will help you get through the physical withdrawals.
I took Suboxone for 11 years. It has been pure hell, like having my brain and body shoved through a wood chipper, all the pieces gathered up and sent right through again. I actually do not regret taking Suboxone because it helped me get past a 5 year Oxy/Vicodin addiction, but let this be a very stern warning, do not take it for long! get off as soon as you can and take as low a dosage as you can manage. You can be on Suboxone forever if you like, but no one really knows the long term effects of this drug yet and it may not have any at all. That said, think about what would happen if you ran out or couldn't get anymore. This is where reality merges with perception and I will tell you, reality is a beast!
I took Suboxone for 11 years. It has been pure hell, like having my brain and body shoved through a wood chipper, all the pieces gathered up and sent right through again. I actually do not regret taking Suboxone because it helped me get past a 5 year Oxy/Vicodin addiction, but let this be a very stern warning, do not take it for long! get off as soon as you can and take as low a dosage as you can manage. You can be on Suboxone forever if you like, but no one really knows the long term effects of this drug yet and it may not have any at all. That said, think about what would happen if you ran out or couldn't get anymore. This is where reality merges with perception and I will tell you, reality is a beast!
omega, I am new to the site. I have a 10 year history w/subutex. I am watching myself shut down slowly. You seem to have real experience. I need some type of outlet and I thought this site would be good. Im an alcoholic also. It gets so distressing dealing with sobriety day to day. Ive been sober many times but can never stay sober. The advice you gave is spot on.
