I was in the second day of my latest kick when my contact texted me wondering if I was ok. It was hard but I ignored the text but he then called and I picked up the phone. He could tell I wasnt doing well and told me to come to him he had something for me. I told him I was broke , concerning drugs anyway, and he said dont worry I didnt need any money. He gave to me 1- 2 mg and 1 - 8 mg Suboxone, plus a few bags so i could drive back home safely. I broke the 8mg talet into 4 pcs . This was thurs afternoon and did my last bag thurs night. I started the sub. on fri night about 24+hrs after last use and have felt ok. I have 1 pc of sub left and have been "clean" going on 3 days as i see it.
My question is am I out of the woods or can I expect the usual sickness after the sub wears off?
Unfamilar with the sub thing- - someone will guide ya'--
maybe on the sub forum?
maybe on the sub forum?
Thanks for the reply , Jack. Anyway, I gotta tell ya, I did 2 stints in the local hospital doing detox,1 with Suboxone the other with methadone and both times were sick as hell. You know,every time they give you your meds they ask the same damn question......
Do you feel any withdrawl symtoms?
Well duhhh!!!! Take a look at me. I'm the guy that was up all night vomiting. Hasn't eaten in 2 days and can barely get out of bed to shower and was just barely hanging in there for the 4 days i was in knowing full well that when I got out I was calling my guy, first thing. What a waste of time and money. I could tell that they didnt give a damn about me and how i felt and even though I do have H.I. it still was not cheap by any stretch of the imagination. And to top it off my dealer did better for me than the so called professionals. What an Fin crock the system is.
Do you feel any withdrawl symtoms?
Well duhhh!!!! Take a look at me. I'm the guy that was up all night vomiting. Hasn't eaten in 2 days and can barely get out of bed to shower and was just barely hanging in there for the 4 days i was in knowing full well that when I got out I was calling my guy, first thing. What a waste of time and money. I could tell that they didnt give a damn about me and how i felt and even though I do have H.I. it still was not cheap by any stretch of the imagination. And to top it off my dealer did better for me than the so called professionals. What an Fin crock the system is.
P.S. I will try the suboxone board.
Welcome, Kevin. So how many days were you on the suboxone and at what dosage? Suboxone can be a lifesaver, and some detoxes now send folks out with a short supply, the WDs from it generally come at higher doses that need to be tapered from and for longer term. That's not to say you won't have WDs, you probably will some symptoms, but how mild or severe depends on length of taper and dose.
As you must know, the getting clean is the easy part, the staying clean is the hard part.
Peace ~ MomNMore
As you must know, the getting clean is the easy part, the staying clean is the hard part.
Peace ~ MomNMore
Hello M&M. I have taken 2mg , twice a day for the last 2 days. I waited over 24 hrs to take the first dose as day 1, i guess you could call it, was never really that bad for me. I'm not really worried about withdrawls from the sub as I am wondering if the sub just delayed the withdrawls from the H.. As I see it I will be into day 4 on Mon the 11th and feel fine. As you can tell from my second post above that was not the case with the other detoxes I went thru INCLUDING the ones done in the hospital. I also tried many times at home by myself but never lasted more than a week as the sickness would just not go away. On top of that was the insomnia and the RLS and all three always drove me back to the H as it was always the quick fix. This time it is so different. Maybe people just get to a point and say no more or as you suggest taking the suboxone correctly can be a life saver.
As far as staying clean ? I'm going to do everything in my power to stay this way and feel this good. I already have the NA schedule, although I have found that they do not do much for me but will give them a try again. But most of all I can honestly say that what Heroin does to a person in every aspect of their life should be more than enough incentive to stay very far away from it.
Anyway, TYVM for your response and time and I look forward to your answer.
As far as staying clean ? I'm going to do everything in my power to stay this way and feel this good. I already have the NA schedule, although I have found that they do not do much for me but will give them a try again. But most of all I can honestly say that what Heroin does to a person in every aspect of their life should be more than enough incentive to stay very far away from it.
Anyway, TYVM for your response and time and I look forward to your answer.
May I pick your brain Kevin....
You said something about rehab and being in 2 times one time using sub and were sick....Can you indulge me and share the time they gave you sub....how long were you in before they dosed you, what the dose was and if you were sick from the get go or after they stopped it....
And for your question...
Short term use of sub has it good and bad points just depends on what the one using it is looking for...
Short term jump off in a few days can take the edge off the worst of things, but in all likelihood there will be some kinda of wd, how much well there is no answer for that. It all really depends on time in and habit as much as it depends on how done one is.
And it isn't from the sub, it is residual from ones opiate of choice...
It takes about 3 weeks to becomes dependent on the sub, so that is a great window for a short term detox. But how much is enough time on to remove the possibility of wd to come back, well heroin is very short acting so that plays in any favor...but heroin wd isn't over after it is over, it tends to linger or what I saw here, and paws doesn't help. So be prepared and accepting that there is only one way out, and that usually involves some suffering...
Good Luck!
You said something about rehab and being in 2 times one time using sub and were sick....Can you indulge me and share the time they gave you sub....how long were you in before they dosed you, what the dose was and if you were sick from the get go or after they stopped it....
And for your question...
Short term use of sub has it good and bad points just depends on what the one using it is looking for...
Short term jump off in a few days can take the edge off the worst of things, but in all likelihood there will be some kinda of wd, how much well there is no answer for that. It all really depends on time in and habit as much as it depends on how done one is.
And it isn't from the sub, it is residual from ones opiate of choice...
It takes about 3 weeks to becomes dependent on the sub, so that is a great window for a short term detox. But how much is enough time on to remove the possibility of wd to come back, well heroin is very short acting so that plays in any favor...but heroin wd isn't over after it is over, it tends to linger or what I saw here, and paws doesn't help. So be prepared and accepting that there is only one way out, and that usually involves some suffering...
Good Luck!
Hi misty.
Well, to answer your questions..... I did in hospital detox 2 times. The first place use suboxone. I used just before I left to go to detox and was truthful about my usage and when I last used. I went in at about 10pm and i think my first dose came about 4-5 pm the next day, so about 18-19 hrs after last usage. I became very sick with all the extras. Legs shaking, sweats, chills, vomiting, not being able to eat, etc, etc..I was getting 2mg and i believe the dosing went , day1 3x, day 2 2x and 3rd day 1x. The forth day I was discharged in the am. I was almost as sick 4 days later when they discharged me as I was the days before. I thought that I was just not healthy enough and the sickness was more due to lack of nourishment and dehydration than anything else. So I tried to hydrate and nourish myself as best i could and took another stab at it
The second time i went the other Hospital used Methadone. I used about 5 hrs before i went in and got my first dose about 10 hrs after getting admitted so about 15 hrs or so after last use, this time. this time I was not nearly as sick as the first time but plenty sick enough. I'm not sure of the mgs but was getting 2x a day for 3 days. discharged on the 4th. I felt much better than the first but not really well at all. I held out for a week and half before I relapsed as the sickness and anxiety and insomnia and an overall feeling of lethargy was not subsiding.
I know they say to wait 10 - 12hrs before taking suboxone but they also say you have to be well into WDs before dosing. That to me means sick to very sick, not just uncomfortable and I always did ok the first 20 hrs or so. Thats why I waited 24+ hrs before I started my own dosing this time and it seems to have worked well but im still waiting for that hammer to drop.
Anyway, it really didnt seem any different to me trying to detox at home or in the hospital as I seem to have went down the same road no matter where I did it. Not sure why the Methadone didnt work as a friend just did the same as I did and he passed with flying colors. No sickness, eat like a horse and no cravings after. But he also waited till he was good and sick before he went in. So maybe?? Who knows.
Well, to answer your questions..... I did in hospital detox 2 times. The first place use suboxone. I used just before I left to go to detox and was truthful about my usage and when I last used. I went in at about 10pm and i think my first dose came about 4-5 pm the next day, so about 18-19 hrs after last usage. I became very sick with all the extras. Legs shaking, sweats, chills, vomiting, not being able to eat, etc, etc..I was getting 2mg and i believe the dosing went , day1 3x, day 2 2x and 3rd day 1x. The forth day I was discharged in the am. I was almost as sick 4 days later when they discharged me as I was the days before. I thought that I was just not healthy enough and the sickness was more due to lack of nourishment and dehydration than anything else. So I tried to hydrate and nourish myself as best i could and took another stab at it
The second time i went the other Hospital used Methadone. I used about 5 hrs before i went in and got my first dose about 10 hrs after getting admitted so about 15 hrs or so after last use, this time. this time I was not nearly as sick as the first time but plenty sick enough. I'm not sure of the mgs but was getting 2x a day for 3 days. discharged on the 4th. I felt much better than the first but not really well at all. I held out for a week and half before I relapsed as the sickness and anxiety and insomnia and an overall feeling of lethargy was not subsiding.
I know they say to wait 10 - 12hrs before taking suboxone but they also say you have to be well into WDs before dosing. That to me means sick to very sick, not just uncomfortable and I always did ok the first 20 hrs or so. Thats why I waited 24+ hrs before I started my own dosing this time and it seems to have worked well but im still waiting for that hammer to drop.
Anyway, it really didnt seem any different to me trying to detox at home or in the hospital as I seem to have went down the same road no matter where I did it. Not sure why the Methadone didnt work as a friend just did the same as I did and he passed with flying colors. No sickness, eat like a horse and no cravings after. But he also waited till he was good and sick before he went in. So maybe?? Who knows.
Well the general advice around these parts is to wait until you are more than a little uncomfortable and that will be different for everyone depending on how heavily you were dosing, but the wisdom says AT LEAST 24 hours...my daughter's addiction specialist said 36 hours and that's what she did.
Suboxone has a longer half-life than heroin by a wide margin, so the discomfort might not come for a couple of days after your last dose. Like Misty said, the only way out is through, though there are some things you can do in the way of OTC supplements and exercisse to mitigate the pain. Or maybe, Kevin, you have hit the WD lottery and have received a "get out of WD free" card and this is your chance to make good things happen.
In any event, I saw you are prepared to try to NA again even though it hasn't helped you in the past and a couple of things came to mind - maybe you weren't ready before, or maybe it wasn't a good meeting. What's good is that you are willing to try something again because you want to be clean.
Peace ~ MomNMore
Suboxone has a longer half-life than heroin by a wide margin, so the discomfort might not come for a couple of days after your last dose. Like Misty said, the only way out is through, though there are some things you can do in the way of OTC supplements and exercisse to mitigate the pain. Or maybe, Kevin, you have hit the WD lottery and have received a "get out of WD free" card and this is your chance to make good things happen.
In any event, I saw you are prepared to try to NA again even though it hasn't helped you in the past and a couple of things came to mind - maybe you weren't ready before, or maybe it wasn't a good meeting. What's good is that you are willing to try something again because you want to be clean.
Peace ~ MomNMore
Update. Mon the 12th 7:16 pm no suboxone today.
Woke this morning with some minor discomfort. Upset stomach, little anxiety but nothing major. A cold is more uncomfortable.fingers crossed.
Woke this morning with some minor discomfort. Upset stomach, little anxiety but nothing major. A cold is more uncomfortable.fingers crossed.
Thanks for sharing, I have this thing for information and am a bit pissed a rehabs now a days with the sub thing and not waiting long enough with heroin addicts. They have this 12/18 ( which is normal for heroin ) hour time set in their heads it seems, and forget to use the basics like the COWS scale, and or just looking at the obvious, like a friend of mine who was able to go for a smoke, if you can go grab a smoke you aren't in wd enough...and he wasn't...
I hope that the days are tolerable for you, and always thinking good thoughts...
Take care of you!
I hope that the days are tolerable for you, and always thinking good thoughts...
Take care of you!
Misty, thanks so much for your kind words. They do more than you could ever imagine.
You are so right about about the rehabs and not keeping with the basics.
Anyway, I would like to add that I was certainly in the minority as far as being sick as I can tell you that there was only 2 others as sick as I was the first time and 1 other the second time. So they do help the majority, i guess. But if some one is suffering you would think there would be some flexibility in the treatment but that doesnt seem to be the case.
Good Thoughts back at ya.
Kevin.
You are so right about about the rehabs and not keeping with the basics.
Anyway, I would like to add that I was certainly in the minority as far as being sick as I can tell you that there was only 2 others as sick as I was the first time and 1 other the second time. So they do help the majority, i guess. But if some one is suffering you would think there would be some flexibility in the treatment but that doesnt seem to be the case.
Good Thoughts back at ya.
Kevin.
I am sure that there can be many reasons why one gets sick...
And the thing with sub is if precipitated wd is tripped there isn't much anyone can do about it. Maybe a benzo to take the edge off but even that doesn't always help. It just has to be ridden out for 24 hours and then they can try to dose again.
I was with a friend of mine when he switched. so here he is at 24 hours in, looking like s*** but he too could go out for a smoke and sit there although I am sure he was exerting some self control...and I told him you are not sick enough don't take that unless you are looking for a nifty bit of hell. Another time he tried it again on his own, and was one sick puppy didn't wait long enough for him. I do find it a bit scary that this is on the streets, and that doctors themselves at times even send patients home to dose alone....to many things can go real wrong, real fast...but I do understand the desperation so it all seems to make sense.
It is all about timing and I do think I know why at least another friend of mine got tripped into precipitated wd in rehab and my husband as well one time switching back over...
A few years back ( although this may still be out there I am a bit out of the loop now ), the streets from Maryland to Maine, out to Chicago that I am sure of, like talking to the DEA sure...I did some volunteer work educating parents on drug addiction.... didn't have heroin on them, well heroin was being sold but it was a very close to pharmaceutical grade fentanyl. So that really screwed up the time one should wait as it is more longer acting than heroin. Kinda throws a kink into going in and stating one uses heroin, if it ain't really heroin... My husband did go back out when the news was talking about all the od's from this so called good heroin, and he did pay for that when he switched and put himself into precipitated wd.
I will have to be excused as I pick the brains of anyone who will allow me so very fascinated with this drug and how it works....
So how are you today, did I read right in another thread that you are feeling fairly well...I do hope that is true...
And the thing with sub is if precipitated wd is tripped there isn't much anyone can do about it. Maybe a benzo to take the edge off but even that doesn't always help. It just has to be ridden out for 24 hours and then they can try to dose again.
I was with a friend of mine when he switched. so here he is at 24 hours in, looking like s*** but he too could go out for a smoke and sit there although I am sure he was exerting some self control...and I told him you are not sick enough don't take that unless you are looking for a nifty bit of hell. Another time he tried it again on his own, and was one sick puppy didn't wait long enough for him. I do find it a bit scary that this is on the streets, and that doctors themselves at times even send patients home to dose alone....to many things can go real wrong, real fast...but I do understand the desperation so it all seems to make sense.
It is all about timing and I do think I know why at least another friend of mine got tripped into precipitated wd in rehab and my husband as well one time switching back over...
A few years back ( although this may still be out there I am a bit out of the loop now ), the streets from Maryland to Maine, out to Chicago that I am sure of, like talking to the DEA sure...I did some volunteer work educating parents on drug addiction.... didn't have heroin on them, well heroin was being sold but it was a very close to pharmaceutical grade fentanyl. So that really screwed up the time one should wait as it is more longer acting than heroin. Kinda throws a kink into going in and stating one uses heroin, if it ain't really heroin... My husband did go back out when the news was talking about all the od's from this so called good heroin, and he did pay for that when he switched and put himself into precipitated wd.
I will have to be excused as I pick the brains of anyone who will allow me so very fascinated with this drug and how it works....
So how are you today, did I read right in another thread that you are feeling fairly well...I do hope that is true...
Hi Misty,
Thank you very much for asking how i'm doing. Anyway this is day six and doing ok. The past couple of days I find that the symptoms of WDs seem to be getting a little stronger.
I called a couple of doctors that can prescribe suboxone as I feel that I may need to get on a program. Just a precaution as I don't want to wait until it's too late and I have gotton to the point of either getting the proper help or the other option but the only 2 in my area that par. with my H.I. arent taking any new patients. My luck.
I'm not working ATM and maybe that has something to do with the effects getting worse and not, at least , staying the same but I keep myself busy around the house catching up on the things I neglected the past cpl of weeks and have hit a couple of N.A. meetings in the AM. I still don't feel nearly as bad as I have in the past so the urge to score is not there as it has been in the past.
Hope all is well with you and everyone else here.
Thank you very much for asking how i'm doing. Anyway this is day six and doing ok. The past couple of days I find that the symptoms of WDs seem to be getting a little stronger.
I called a couple of doctors that can prescribe suboxone as I feel that I may need to get on a program. Just a precaution as I don't want to wait until it's too late and I have gotton to the point of either getting the proper help or the other option but the only 2 in my area that par. with my H.I. arent taking any new patients. My luck.
I'm not working ATM and maybe that has something to do with the effects getting worse and not, at least , staying the same but I keep myself busy around the house catching up on the things I neglected the past cpl of weeks and have hit a couple of N.A. meetings in the AM. I still don't feel nearly as bad as I have in the past so the urge to score is not there as it has been in the past.
Hope all is well with you and everyone else here.
