Hey guys.After reading Geoffs' post about doing the 4th I have to do a post of my own as if I haven't posted enough on the 4th step already lol. but oh well what's one more.? ONCE AGAIN I have to take a break from it and leave it alone for another while. I don't know why I have so much trouble completing it. It fills me with anger,despair and fear. I mean actual physical fear of heart racing and blood thumping sensations.I get so upset every time I try and do this step. Weird and Crazy I know but It is like there is something that I DON'T want to remember if that makes any sense to anyone and I get really scared .If anything bad happened to me as a child I have NO rcollection of it but when I am doing the 4th step and write stuff down I get the "feeling"that something did happen to me.something that I can't remember and then when I am not trying to do the step it goes away again and then I think I am crazy for feeling that way. in the first place. I really DON'T KNOW and it gets on my last nerve.Thanks guys I just had to get that off my chest. Take care all and God bless. :)
Marie
You are making a mountain out of a molehill but when you get desperate enough you will work the steps. If you don't want to, that's ok too. AA is not for everyone. It takes a lot of guts to work the steps. Some just can't handle it. It says in the BB "There is a solution. Almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked for others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, there was nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spritual tools laid at our feet. We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fouth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed."
None of us liked doing a fourth step but we did it anyway. But it is an individual choice. If you choose not to, it doesn't make you a bad person and it doesn't mean you will never stay sober. It just means you don't want to do it AA's way and you have that choice today. If you ever change your mind, we'll be here to help.
smooches
You are making a mountain out of a molehill but when you get desperate enough you will work the steps. If you don't want to, that's ok too. AA is not for everyone. It takes a lot of guts to work the steps. Some just can't handle it. It says in the BB "There is a solution. Almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked for others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, there was nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spritual tools laid at our feet. We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fouth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed."
None of us liked doing a fourth step but we did it anyway. But it is an individual choice. If you choose not to, it doesn't make you a bad person and it doesn't mean you will never stay sober. It just means you don't want to do it AA's way and you have that choice today. If you ever change your mind, we'll be here to help.
smooches
Hey Kat I didn't say I was giving up on 4th step I just said I was taking a break from it again. It's kind of hard for me to explain the way I get emotionally ,when I try to do it .Having the guts to do it is not my problem.It doesn't bother me listing my faults,and I sure don't have much self pride so that was never an option and I don't have any problem acknowleding any wrongs I have done in my life. As for the blame game the only one I have blamed for my alcoholism was me. I have had resentments sure,but everybody has at some point but I can list them and see how I played a part in it. I can do all that but there is more to it for me than that . I want to do it and I really do try my best. I go into it all determined to do it and with a positive attitude about doing it but it's like something takes over me that I have no explanation for. I do know like I said before it's like there is something I don't want to remember ,acknowledge or face.I get a "feeling of something "but I don't know what,which causes me to feel panic and I feel I just want to run from it. Instead of helping in my recovery I find it upsets me to the point where I want to escape the turmoil it causes for me. Anyway the other steps I wouldn't have any problem doing it just this step does something to me that I don't understand so I can't explain it to anyone because I don't know myself. Maybe some things are better left alone. Thanks for letting me share and thanks for replying to my posts. God bless and take care
posted by pirate
As hard as this may be, focus on what you know for sure. Those "feelings" on something "bad" happened.may..or may not....be accurate. However, there are past actions/thoughts/feelings that you know about for sure. This is what needs to be focused on. Not just on past items, but behaviors and actions NOW. The 4th Step for me is NOT just the past. It also deals with dysfunctional thinking and action in the present as well. And worrying about nagging feelings about something bad happening in the past can act as a screen to avoid dealing with the things you DO know about. Which may..or may not.... scare you more than you want to admit....
Without the 4th and 5th..there will be no Steps 6 and 7 as one hasn't really identified and accepted what the character defects are. It also makes doing Steps 8 and 9 difficult as one common method of amends (which can be a mending of a relationship) is to clear out dysfunctional thoughts and behaviors.
Doing something in spite of the fear is the epitome of bravery. There also is no such thing as perfect. The Steps can always be repeated. In fact, for me, its constant practice.
| QUOTE |
.If anything bad happened to me as a child I have NO rcollection of it but when I am doing the 4th step and write stuff down I get the "feeling"that something did happen to me.something that I can't remember and then when I am not trying to do the step it goes away again and then I think I am crazy for feeling that way. |
As hard as this may be, focus on what you know for sure. Those "feelings" on something "bad" happened.may..or may not....be accurate. However, there are past actions/thoughts/feelings that you know about for sure. This is what needs to be focused on. Not just on past items, but behaviors and actions NOW. The 4th Step for me is NOT just the past. It also deals with dysfunctional thinking and action in the present as well. And worrying about nagging feelings about something bad happening in the past can act as a screen to avoid dealing with the things you DO know about. Which may..or may not.... scare you more than you want to admit....
Without the 4th and 5th..there will be no Steps 6 and 7 as one hasn't really identified and accepted what the character defects are. It also makes doing Steps 8 and 9 difficult as one common method of amends (which can be a mending of a relationship) is to clear out dysfunctional thoughts and behaviors.
Doing something in spite of the fear is the epitome of bravery. There also is no such thing as perfect. The Steps can always be repeated. In fact, for me, its constant practice.
Marie,
I am sorry you are struggling again about the 4th step. I agree with who just posted about only focusing on what you know for certain, your part, what you felt was compromised by the resentment (pride, security, position, etc). The steps aren't here to make our lives more difficult and hurt us further.
Have you ever heard of the set aside prayer? I love it...it goes something like: "God, help me set aside everything I think I know about myself, you, and the steps so that I can have an open mind and heart for a new experience". I also add to it by praying, "Help me let go of the fear, pain, panic, worry, lack of trust, and all the rest I've become enmeshed in. Help me let go of the pain, fear, and worry instead of trying to make substances, other people, and situations stop it or change how I feel". Just a suggestion.
Love ya.
I am sorry you are struggling again about the 4th step. I agree with who just posted about only focusing on what you know for certain, your part, what you felt was compromised by the resentment (pride, security, position, etc). The steps aren't here to make our lives more difficult and hurt us further.
Have you ever heard of the set aside prayer? I love it...it goes something like: "God, help me set aside everything I think I know about myself, you, and the steps so that I can have an open mind and heart for a new experience". I also add to it by praying, "Help me let go of the fear, pain, panic, worry, lack of trust, and all the rest I've become enmeshed in. Help me let go of the pain, fear, and worry instead of trying to make substances, other people, and situations stop it or change how I feel". Just a suggestion.
Love ya.
If you can't remember, or aren't sure it's real, then just skip that part. If you don't know it's real how can it be valid. Can you just go forward with what you've already done? Move onto step 5 now.
I'll support your decision whatever you decide. I've heard many stories about how long, or how short people went through the steps. There is no wrong, or right way. It's about you and your hp's timing.
I don't know about you, but sometimes and somedays my head feels like a bouncing ball. I think I'd better go read what Geoffrey wrote again. I'd better believe to the best of my ability that this is a gift. A miracle. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it though. I just have remind myself and tell myself to shut up.
Thanks for being so honest. I feel like you do to. More than I care to say. You know Pirate I think maybe you did what you did for your friend because of being desperate for love and acceptance. Maybe even to prove to myself that I'm OK. Well at least thats why I would have done it. I've been thinking about doing some writing in Word about just that. Desperate for love and acceptance. I guess I don't want to dig up any more from my past. Then I'll have to think about it and feel it, whats the point. I've already been through this enough. I wonder if to much of all this can make a person sicker. I haven't seen my therapist for 3 wks. They canceled yesterday. I need to call and make an appt.
Well since I'm writing it to you. I personally will tell you. I'm really getting sick of AA. I'm tired of putting so much time into it. I see others on this board along with real life people who don't go to AA. They are sober and reasonably happy. I have so many other things I want to do now with my time. Plus I hear so much crap there to. I hear the same things over and over. I'm sure I'm just hitting a slow growth phase now. It will be six months this Friday I haven't had a drink. I was going to try and quit smoking and realized that my willingness and desire just aren't there. It will also be the 20 anniversary of my Dad's passing. Cigarette's I believe were what was the main thing that put him in his grave at 48.
I better quit whining now and do something to change my attitude. Like try and eat something 9:15 here. I'm not hungry again. Pirate can you here PMS it's almost that day. I can recognize it like clock work every month now that I'm sober I can pin it down within one to two days. I wish men had to experience this. Well they do in way if they have a wife, or partner. When I was drinking my husband would recognize it before I did. Last night I went MEOW'R to my hubby. Then I laughed, but he now has been warned. This hormone s*** is no joke. So don't come on here and give me crap about it. My mood has no tolerance today, lol. I know AA'S code is Love and Tolerance.
I told my home group last night a little how I was feeling about being in a slow growth phase of my recovery. There were nods. I figured at 6 months of sobriety it's normal. I didn't grab anybody after the meeting just wanted to leave. I have major trust issues with people and I admire how you can come on here and be so open. The only person I feel really comfortable with about being so open with is Lacey and she doesn't come around to much anymore. I think it's because I sense we both went down some similar paths. I think she understands how I feel when it comes to not feeling like I'm lovable, or good enough.
I have an appt today with the Endo Dr. I know some of why I feel poor physically and mentally is do to that. Though I wonder sometimes if I have degenerative Paws. I haven't felt like drinking since around, or shortly after the 4 month point. I'm so tired all the time. I only miss alcohol for the energy it once gave me. But, know I'm one drink away from a drunk and would probably be off on a long run. I may not have another recovery left in me. I really need to focus on the miracle I've been given.
Thats enough out of me. I hope you have a good day. I still pray for you and your family often!
Thanks for listening Pirate.
Love,
Chris xxx
I'll support your decision whatever you decide. I've heard many stories about how long, or how short people went through the steps. There is no wrong, or right way. It's about you and your hp's timing.
I don't know about you, but sometimes and somedays my head feels like a bouncing ball. I think I'd better go read what Geoffrey wrote again. I'd better believe to the best of my ability that this is a gift. A miracle. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it though. I just have remind myself and tell myself to shut up.
Thanks for being so honest. I feel like you do to. More than I care to say. You know Pirate I think maybe you did what you did for your friend because of being desperate for love and acceptance. Maybe even to prove to myself that I'm OK. Well at least thats why I would have done it. I've been thinking about doing some writing in Word about just that. Desperate for love and acceptance. I guess I don't want to dig up any more from my past. Then I'll have to think about it and feel it, whats the point. I've already been through this enough. I wonder if to much of all this can make a person sicker. I haven't seen my therapist for 3 wks. They canceled yesterday. I need to call and make an appt.
Well since I'm writing it to you. I personally will tell you. I'm really getting sick of AA. I'm tired of putting so much time into it. I see others on this board along with real life people who don't go to AA. They are sober and reasonably happy. I have so many other things I want to do now with my time. Plus I hear so much crap there to. I hear the same things over and over. I'm sure I'm just hitting a slow growth phase now. It will be six months this Friday I haven't had a drink. I was going to try and quit smoking and realized that my willingness and desire just aren't there. It will also be the 20 anniversary of my Dad's passing. Cigarette's I believe were what was the main thing that put him in his grave at 48.
I better quit whining now and do something to change my attitude. Like try and eat something 9:15 here. I'm not hungry again. Pirate can you here PMS it's almost that day. I can recognize it like clock work every month now that I'm sober I can pin it down within one to two days. I wish men had to experience this. Well they do in way if they have a wife, or partner. When I was drinking my husband would recognize it before I did. Last night I went MEOW'R to my hubby. Then I laughed, but he now has been warned. This hormone s*** is no joke. So don't come on here and give me crap about it. My mood has no tolerance today, lol. I know AA'S code is Love and Tolerance.
I told my home group last night a little how I was feeling about being in a slow growth phase of my recovery. There were nods. I figured at 6 months of sobriety it's normal. I didn't grab anybody after the meeting just wanted to leave. I have major trust issues with people and I admire how you can come on here and be so open. The only person I feel really comfortable with about being so open with is Lacey and she doesn't come around to much anymore. I think it's because I sense we both went down some similar paths. I think she understands how I feel when it comes to not feeling like I'm lovable, or good enough.
I have an appt today with the Endo Dr. I know some of why I feel poor physically and mentally is do to that. Though I wonder sometimes if I have degenerative Paws. I haven't felt like drinking since around, or shortly after the 4 month point. I'm so tired all the time. I only miss alcohol for the energy it once gave me. But, know I'm one drink away from a drunk and would probably be off on a long run. I may not have another recovery left in me. I really need to focus on the miracle I've been given.
Thats enough out of me. I hope you have a good day. I still pray for you and your family often!
Thanks for listening Pirate.
Love,
Chris xxx
Hey guys thanks for the posts and your support and all. You must think I am a lost cause and sometimes I wonder myself. I have more good days now than the bad ones but the bad ones keep coming back. This evening I want to drink so bad. It's like sometimes everything seems so pointless. all the struggling and the f g emptiness I feel and the way I feel today is just terrible. I can tell myself to be positive, I KNOW I should be grateful,I KNOW I should not be selfpitying,I KNOW I should pray and hand it over,I KNow it will pass but in the meantime it SUCKS AND I HATE IT.It's like it's never ever gonna end. I KNOW I am whining and childish and all but I am so sick of this.Maybe other people get sober and become happy. I just struggle day by day ,missing it and whatever I do I can't fill the void I feel. Lookin up I can understand the way you feel and maybe I do things too so people will love me . Maybe I am so afraid of people not liking me I won't say no. I think you are right when you say that about me. Kat maybe I am one of those people that they talk about in the big book that can't do the steps ,maybe I am as close to peace as I am ever gonna get .Anyway here I am going on and on again on another tantrum . If anyone has taken the time to read this posts and I wouldn't blame you one bit if you didn't having to hear me moan in my selfpity but if you did read it . thanks for doing so and for letting me vent again. ((((( ))))God bless and take care
Hey pirate,
There's often a reason we drink.....and when we stop drinking the reason hasn't always gone away.....I'm just beginning to climb out of the pit of depression I've been in for the past year or so....I've never experienced anything like it before in my life and it was truly dreadful....felt very much like what you're describing....nothing had any meaning at all, everything was pointless, death was just around the corner....I had the Samaritans on speed dial.....terrible.....but it IS getting better...day by day, step by step, two forward and one back and one sideways sometimes....but it IS getting better....all the things people say work, work....they just took a little bit of time to kick in....exercise, eating properly, keeping occupied, being kind to myself, looking after ME for once in my life....the serenity prayer....handing over my Will....walking and walking and walking praying to know His Will for me and the courage to follow that path.....wanting to believe, wanting there to be a GOd and being willing to hand my life and my Will over to Him....and now and again it would come to me....a moment of joy, of peace, of tranquility, of bliss.....moments and flashes and glimpses....and I read, too, pirate...I read about how some people, maybe me, become fragmented in childhood and create a "false self" to survive our circumstances...so we function, but deep down always feel awkward, false, broken, a fake....even the good feelings are meaningless because they come from the false self we created for GOOD reasons....because our real self, our authentic self, wasn't valued, validated, accepted....and the void at our centre....is where our true self will bloosom and grow if we let him/her....if we nurture that part of us we were forced to reject, to hide, to protect....if we let ourselves know we are safe.....hence Faith...is so important....for if we have Faith we cannot have fear.....which is why step 2 and 3 come before step 4.....
Be at peace....all will be well, all manner of things will be well...do what feels right, trust your HP.....trust Him.....All things will come or not as He Wills it.....You are exactly where He wants you to be.....how could it be otherwise?
Love,
Martin.
There's often a reason we drink.....and when we stop drinking the reason hasn't always gone away.....I'm just beginning to climb out of the pit of depression I've been in for the past year or so....I've never experienced anything like it before in my life and it was truly dreadful....felt very much like what you're describing....nothing had any meaning at all, everything was pointless, death was just around the corner....I had the Samaritans on speed dial.....terrible.....but it IS getting better...day by day, step by step, two forward and one back and one sideways sometimes....but it IS getting better....all the things people say work, work....they just took a little bit of time to kick in....exercise, eating properly, keeping occupied, being kind to myself, looking after ME for once in my life....the serenity prayer....handing over my Will....walking and walking and walking praying to know His Will for me and the courage to follow that path.....wanting to believe, wanting there to be a GOd and being willing to hand my life and my Will over to Him....and now and again it would come to me....a moment of joy, of peace, of tranquility, of bliss.....moments and flashes and glimpses....and I read, too, pirate...I read about how some people, maybe me, become fragmented in childhood and create a "false self" to survive our circumstances...so we function, but deep down always feel awkward, false, broken, a fake....even the good feelings are meaningless because they come from the false self we created for GOOD reasons....because our real self, our authentic self, wasn't valued, validated, accepted....and the void at our centre....is where our true self will bloosom and grow if we let him/her....if we nurture that part of us we were forced to reject, to hide, to protect....if we let ourselves know we are safe.....hence Faith...is so important....for if we have Faith we cannot have fear.....which is why step 2 and 3 come before step 4.....
Be at peace....all will be well, all manner of things will be well...do what feels right, trust your HP.....trust Him.....All things will come or not as He Wills it.....You are exactly where He wants you to be.....how could it be otherwise?
Love,
Martin.
You asked: maybe some people get sober and stay happy...LOL. Sorry to laugh but honey, life is still life. I will say, I've been very fortunate that the last 3.5 months I have not really craved drinking. Just remember...drinking will only make things worse.
Thinking of you. Hugs.
Thinking of you. Hugs.
if anyone needs 4th step inventory sheets (and has access to a printer to print them off) email me...
geoffbrent@yahoo.com
geoffbrent@yahoo.com
Gidday Pirate
I know what you are talking about re the unknown as there is a cutoff point in my life for all memories from about 6 years to the teenage years, they are gone and i only get snippets of memories now and then....something happened and whoever was doing it well there face has been super imposed with the devils and he is saying if you ever tell anyone you will go to hell......nice Fcka
So as a god fearing young catholic i have erased that period of my life i have no doubts that one day i will remember the hidden face and i do not need to know really because all i need to do is acknowledge the past, learn from it and move on handing the things i need to over to gods care and understanding
You are trying to be to clinical and thourough and do you know that when the Turkish people make a rug they put an imperfection in them on purpose because no one thing apart from god is perfect in there eyes
Dont be so hard on yourself and go and have a fun day somewhere and read the gratitude thread to build a bit more as you are giving the 4th a lot of your energy
light and love Zac
I know what you are talking about re the unknown as there is a cutoff point in my life for all memories from about 6 years to the teenage years, they are gone and i only get snippets of memories now and then....something happened and whoever was doing it well there face has been super imposed with the devils and he is saying if you ever tell anyone you will go to hell......nice Fcka
So as a god fearing young catholic i have erased that period of my life i have no doubts that one day i will remember the hidden face and i do not need to know really because all i need to do is acknowledge the past, learn from it and move on handing the things i need to over to gods care and understanding
You are trying to be to clinical and thourough and do you know that when the Turkish people make a rug they put an imperfection in them on purpose because no one thing apart from god is perfect in there eyes
Dont be so hard on yourself and go and have a fun day somewhere and read the gratitude thread to build a bit more as you are giving the 4th a lot of your energy
light and love Zac
Lookin' and Pirate,
When I first got sober I thought, "When the hell does happy begin?" I waited and waited and I still wasn't happy. I realized that I was again putting it on something or someone else to make me happy. Sobriety should make me happy. No I make myself happy. I hadn't accepted that I could no longer drink either. Once I accepted that this is my life now...alcohol free..it was easier to get on with it so to speak.
Of course on occasion I would like to have a cocktail out in social situations but I don't obsess about it anymore. I had a good run (years) with alcohol and now on to the next chapter of my life. Sober life.
Now for the most part I am pretty happy most of the time. Life is still difficult at times but I cope just fine without alcohol or drugs now. It's actually not as scary as I made it out to be. Life sober that is.
This too shall pass guys. Keep doing whatever it was you were doing that has kept you sober. Whether it be therapy or the program. JMHO
Have a nice night ladies.
When I first got sober I thought, "When the hell does happy begin?" I waited and waited and I still wasn't happy. I realized that I was again putting it on something or someone else to make me happy. Sobriety should make me happy. No I make myself happy. I hadn't accepted that I could no longer drink either. Once I accepted that this is my life now...alcohol free..it was easier to get on with it so to speak.
Of course on occasion I would like to have a cocktail out in social situations but I don't obsess about it anymore. I had a good run (years) with alcohol and now on to the next chapter of my life. Sober life.
Now for the most part I am pretty happy most of the time. Life is still difficult at times but I cope just fine without alcohol or drugs now. It's actually not as scary as I made it out to be. Life sober that is.
This too shall pass guys. Keep doing whatever it was you were doing that has kept you sober. Whether it be therapy or the program. JMHO
Have a nice night ladies.
Pirate I have been moving between 3rd and 4th step for 2 years. I just could not let go of some of the resentments, anger, fear and pain. My sponsor kept telling me to redo the 3rd. I also over complicated it.
The good news is a month or so back it just started to happen. I spoke it through with my sponsor. It clicked. I had the ability for the first time to articulate my resentments and fear. I started taking the incventory. Its not done yet, but shaping up.
The steps are not a race. I also know many bail out after step 3. But take time. My sponsor always reminds me if I am staying clean at least I am doing something right. You are staying sober.
I guess its the balance between easy does it and persevering.
Just wanted to tell you this addict struggled for 2 years!!
Take care
The good news is a month or so back it just started to happen. I spoke it through with my sponsor. It clicked. I had the ability for the first time to articulate my resentments and fear. I started taking the incventory. Its not done yet, but shaping up.
The steps are not a race. I also know many bail out after step 3. But take time. My sponsor always reminds me if I am staying clean at least I am doing something right. You are staying sober.
I guess its the balance between easy does it and persevering.
Just wanted to tell you this addict struggled for 2 years!!
Take care
Hey Guys thank you all for your replies. Thank you calabash for letting me know it took you 2 years,now I don't feel so bad lol (just kidding). It's like for the addiction itself it seems like the cravings are never going to go away. It goes away for a while then Wham it's back again. I try ,I really do, to get past it but at times I think it would be easier to just give in to it all instead of struggling all the time, and drink,die and get it over with. Anyway I know I am in self pity mode and feeling quite angry and hell I feel like s***. I can't seem to pick myself up outta this one . I am going out of town this morning to meet with my sponsor and my addiction counsellor maybe they will be able to do something to help me some. I know it sounds like I am depending on other people to set me straight and I am because for today I can't do it alone. Lookin up I hope you begin to feel better soon . I guess I am not much support when I am feeling so low myself but you take comfort in the fact at least I understand if nothing else. Remember the dream I had in the beginning of my sobriety about the sun. Maybe it was you in that dream,the woman beside me. If so someday we will see the sun the way it was in the dream. we have to hang on to that vision while we are in our darkness. Take care all and thank you for being here for me. I do appreciate it so much.
p.s Geoff I already have some forums that Kat have sent to me thank you all the same for your offer but I am sure someone else might need them.
p.s Geoff I already have some forums that Kat have sent to me thank you all the same for your offer but I am sure someone else might need them.
Just wanted to tell you this addict struggled for 2 years!!
Did you manage to stay sober those two years? I did the 1-2-3 shuffle for 4 years and relapsed regularly. I wasn't able to stay sober till I finished all 12 steps. I've talked to many people that agonized over the 4th step because they over complicated it. Sadly, they couldn't stay sober until the surrendered and just did it.
Did you manage to stay sober those two years? I did the 1-2-3 shuffle for 4 years and relapsed regularly. I wasn't able to stay sober till I finished all 12 steps. I've talked to many people that agonized over the 4th step because they over complicated it. Sadly, they couldn't stay sober until the surrendered and just did it.
Thanks 12 stepper. I am not advocating a 2 year 123 shuffle. And no, I was unable to stay clean in that time. I did however remain in recovery.
To work the steps with vigour and willingness is the ideal. However, I just wanted to point out to pirate that for me - at a point - step 4 just started falling into place and I was able to confront it.
I struggled to communicate that effectively - so thanks for (12)stepping in.
To work the steps with vigour and willingness is the ideal. However, I just wanted to point out to pirate that for me - at a point - step 4 just started falling into place and I was able to confront it.
I struggled to communicate that effectively - so thanks for (12)stepping in.
The reason I asked, Cal, is that it sounded like you had put off doing 4 and stayed sober. I just wanted Pirate to see that wasn't the case. I wasn't picking on you or anything <G> Sometimes I am crabby in the morning and post the wrong thing.
I know people that have only gone to meetings and not worked the steps for years but remained dry. They all say that they can't believe they waited because they were miserable before they worked them. In the old days when AA was young they worked the steps in a few days. Their success rate was much higher back then. Heck, Bill and Dr. Bob did them in hours and they stayed sober. I've learned that longer is not better. The sooner the steps are done the faster we get better.
I know people that have only gone to meetings and not worked the steps for years but remained dry. They all say that they can't believe they waited because they were miserable before they worked them. In the old days when AA was young they worked the steps in a few days. Their success rate was much higher back then. Heck, Bill and Dr. Bob did them in hours and they stayed sober. I've learned that longer is not better. The sooner the steps are done the faster we get better.
Martin,
You really seem to understand the depth, the nature of true pain. You give so much love and compassion to people. It is people like us who've lived through it that do comprehend it so well. I feel blessed to have met you here on a message board. As many others do too. You have a generous heart. An intelligent mind. I'm drawn towards your spirit. I figured out a while back one of the main reasons why. I read what a safe place you offered your children. A place my own Father and Mother didn't provide, nor my husband for many years. Time and time again you provided your kids a safe home, with love and understanding. Thank You, for being a wonderful Father to your children. Thank You, for helping me to feel safer here on this board. Life is unfolding exactly how it's suppose to. Good to see you throwing out the rule book, so to speak. Me too. Yes, people are fascinating creatures. We are too. Thank You for making me laugh. I'm glad your back!!! God is working in us, so he can work through us!!! Love Ya xxx
Val,
Thank You So Much. This is one of the best, most practical, simple, honest and kind things I've been told. Thank You for caring and taking the time to write that for Pirate and myself. It's exactly what I needed to hear. It's OK to not be happy sometimes. I know I put to much pressure on myself and I'm impatient. It's actually normal to feel like this early on in recovery for many people. It's actually normal for everyone to feel like that some days and times. I needed that validation by an objective person. I don't obsess about drinking, but I think about it form time to time. It's also normal for many people. After all I'm an alcoholic still early in recovery. I even here people at AA who have years and have worked the steps talk about it once in a while they have thoughts. It really is up to me to create my happiness. It really is up to me to further my whole self towards a deeper root into acceptance. Thank You for your support and encouragement. I appreciate it more than you know. Love Ya xxx
Pirate,
The cravings will come and go accept it as normal for now and just don't drink today over those feelings, thoughts, physical anxieties. You know it's normal that we can feel like s*** sometimes. Let's accept it, but not dwell on it. Because you know what it's going to keep getting better for the most part as time go's on. We both know time is going to tick tock faster and faster, lol. If we did drink we can be guaranteed nothing will have changed. Remember your bottoms. Remember your last few, or most horrible drunks. You know the ones you can remember. REMEMBER!!! Remembering will help you stay committed to sobriety, which leads to reasonable happiness. The thoughts, cravings started happening less often and less intense at around 4.5 months, for myself. It was at 5 months I started the shock and amazement phase. I couldn't hardly believe that it was real. That I hadn't drank in that long. The thoughts now are much less often and intense now, then when I had accumulated 30, 60, 90, 120 days. They get better as you continue working on recovery and let alone the physical part of it. You do know that alcohol is still in our cells and some organs. We both drank pretty heavy. I've had a few times where I felt like I had drank, but I hadn't. I think something was released into my blood. Everyone has a different chemistry makeup, different stresses in life. But you can do it! I bet if you really stopped and thought about it, you'd find that thoughts, cravings, obsessing aren't as intense now and don't last as long. Think about when you were active. Think about your first 30 days. I know for me they were much worse then. When in doubt just ask a family, or friend about what you were like when you were drinking. Ask them what your like now sober. That should do the trick. Bet you will scare that craving, thought right back where it belongs. You take as much time as you need to work on your recovery and steps. It isn't a competition. It isn't about them, it's about you. You post about whatever you want, or need to. I'm glad you can do that. Many people here care about you and love you. Please look in the mirror today and say I'm beautiful, I'm worth it. Tell that critical inner voice to shut up. We think and know you are beautiful, sweet, smart, kind and quite funny too!!! Your lows will pass. I read in your words they come and go. So do mine. We just need to accept it sometimes. And most the time we have to do something about it, so that it will change. Our brains are in the process of healing, rewiring themselves. Keep being proactive and active. Yet allow and know that there will be times of slow growth as well. I'm feeling better today. I called and made a counseling appt for Monday. I hope your counseling and seeing your sponsor today will give you lots of encouragement and support. I hope you are feeling better. Can I send you some sunshine and heat. OK, just the sunshine part. As I love you my friend and don't want to make you feel like your in an oven. Yes, I remember the dream. I think I archived. I also believe I'm that woman who you didn't know, that we were sent to each other. The silk vale is lifting slowly, but surely. We will see the sun. One day Marie we will see the brightest lite ever. I believe we will recognize each other. I've cried at times from are private e-mails and some posts here. Sometimes I get overwhelmed by both our dark days. Plus you know how us Mom's and all those roles we get caught up in feeling other peoples darkness. We carry others burdens with us. We need to give as much as we can to God who is stronger then we are, we need to keep practicing this. It's part of why God made us my friend. Yes that last sentence can be applied to the last two sentences. To carry, to hand over. Just like that Mother's Day e-mail you sent me. Sometimes when I'm in the sun, I avoid anything that makes me feel dark. Please don't take offense. I think you understand. We need to take our days of sunshine and hold on to them. Sometimes with everything, thats going on in my life. I just need to stay away and stay in the light. It's like I know it won't last, so I soak it up. Now I just have to store it up like Zak says. Lets be grateful that we both have more good days then bad days now. Lets be grateful together that we have been given this gift. Even though it doesn't always feel like it. We know in the deepest parts of our souls and spirits it's true, even in the dark days. I'm grateful and feel so very blessed to have met you. I wished we weren't so far away. But it is what it is. Lets be grateful for the internet. There really are so many things to be grateful for. You hang in there and know that sunshine is headed your way. I will be lifting you up in my prayers and thoughts today. Love You xoxo :-)
You really seem to understand the depth, the nature of true pain. You give so much love and compassion to people. It is people like us who've lived through it that do comprehend it so well. I feel blessed to have met you here on a message board. As many others do too. You have a generous heart. An intelligent mind. I'm drawn towards your spirit. I figured out a while back one of the main reasons why. I read what a safe place you offered your children. A place my own Father and Mother didn't provide, nor my husband for many years. Time and time again you provided your kids a safe home, with love and understanding. Thank You, for being a wonderful Father to your children. Thank You, for helping me to feel safer here on this board. Life is unfolding exactly how it's suppose to. Good to see you throwing out the rule book, so to speak. Me too. Yes, people are fascinating creatures. We are too. Thank You for making me laugh. I'm glad your back!!! God is working in us, so he can work through us!!! Love Ya xxx
Val,
Thank You So Much. This is one of the best, most practical, simple, honest and kind things I've been told. Thank You for caring and taking the time to write that for Pirate and myself. It's exactly what I needed to hear. It's OK to not be happy sometimes. I know I put to much pressure on myself and I'm impatient. It's actually normal to feel like this early on in recovery for many people. It's actually normal for everyone to feel like that some days and times. I needed that validation by an objective person. I don't obsess about drinking, but I think about it form time to time. It's also normal for many people. After all I'm an alcoholic still early in recovery. I even here people at AA who have years and have worked the steps talk about it once in a while they have thoughts. It really is up to me to create my happiness. It really is up to me to further my whole self towards a deeper root into acceptance. Thank You for your support and encouragement. I appreciate it more than you know. Love Ya xxx
Pirate,
The cravings will come and go accept it as normal for now and just don't drink today over those feelings, thoughts, physical anxieties. You know it's normal that we can feel like s*** sometimes. Let's accept it, but not dwell on it. Because you know what it's going to keep getting better for the most part as time go's on. We both know time is going to tick tock faster and faster, lol. If we did drink we can be guaranteed nothing will have changed. Remember your bottoms. Remember your last few, or most horrible drunks. You know the ones you can remember. REMEMBER!!! Remembering will help you stay committed to sobriety, which leads to reasonable happiness. The thoughts, cravings started happening less often and less intense at around 4.5 months, for myself. It was at 5 months I started the shock and amazement phase. I couldn't hardly believe that it was real. That I hadn't drank in that long. The thoughts now are much less often and intense now, then when I had accumulated 30, 60, 90, 120 days. They get better as you continue working on recovery and let alone the physical part of it. You do know that alcohol is still in our cells and some organs. We both drank pretty heavy. I've had a few times where I felt like I had drank, but I hadn't. I think something was released into my blood. Everyone has a different chemistry makeup, different stresses in life. But you can do it! I bet if you really stopped and thought about it, you'd find that thoughts, cravings, obsessing aren't as intense now and don't last as long. Think about when you were active. Think about your first 30 days. I know for me they were much worse then. When in doubt just ask a family, or friend about what you were like when you were drinking. Ask them what your like now sober. That should do the trick. Bet you will scare that craving, thought right back where it belongs. You take as much time as you need to work on your recovery and steps. It isn't a competition. It isn't about them, it's about you. You post about whatever you want, or need to. I'm glad you can do that. Many people here care about you and love you. Please look in the mirror today and say I'm beautiful, I'm worth it. Tell that critical inner voice to shut up. We think and know you are beautiful, sweet, smart, kind and quite funny too!!! Your lows will pass. I read in your words they come and go. So do mine. We just need to accept it sometimes. And most the time we have to do something about it, so that it will change. Our brains are in the process of healing, rewiring themselves. Keep being proactive and active. Yet allow and know that there will be times of slow growth as well. I'm feeling better today. I called and made a counseling appt for Monday. I hope your counseling and seeing your sponsor today will give you lots of encouragement and support. I hope you are feeling better. Can I send you some sunshine and heat. OK, just the sunshine part. As I love you my friend and don't want to make you feel like your in an oven. Yes, I remember the dream. I think I archived. I also believe I'm that woman who you didn't know, that we were sent to each other. The silk vale is lifting slowly, but surely. We will see the sun. One day Marie we will see the brightest lite ever. I believe we will recognize each other. I've cried at times from are private e-mails and some posts here. Sometimes I get overwhelmed by both our dark days. Plus you know how us Mom's and all those roles we get caught up in feeling other peoples darkness. We carry others burdens with us. We need to give as much as we can to God who is stronger then we are, we need to keep practicing this. It's part of why God made us my friend. Yes that last sentence can be applied to the last two sentences. To carry, to hand over. Just like that Mother's Day e-mail you sent me. Sometimes when I'm in the sun, I avoid anything that makes me feel dark. Please don't take offense. I think you understand. We need to take our days of sunshine and hold on to them. Sometimes with everything, thats going on in my life. I just need to stay away and stay in the light. It's like I know it won't last, so I soak it up. Now I just have to store it up like Zak says. Lets be grateful that we both have more good days then bad days now. Lets be grateful together that we have been given this gift. Even though it doesn't always feel like it. We know in the deepest parts of our souls and spirits it's true, even in the dark days. I'm grateful and feel so very blessed to have met you. I wished we weren't so far away. But it is what it is. Lets be grateful for the internet. There really are so many things to be grateful for. You hang in there and know that sunshine is headed your way. I will be lifting you up in my prayers and thoughts today. Love You xoxo :-)
