Oh, how I love the early morning hours. They creep by like molasses in winter when I have something on my mind. Every nuance of fear and remorse crawl out of the shadows like some beast under the bed of a 5 year old.
This morning, after riding high for a couple of days, I snapped to as to what I had done when I wrote that hurtful post a couple of days ago. It was there in front of me all along, I just couldnt see it. It rarely comes to me quickly, but when it does, it is always screams at me in the quiet before dawn.
Once again for the 10,000th time since I got sober, I have to confront the fact that the wreckage of my disease is just as bad, and often worse, in sobriety as it was when I was out there. Or perhaps I am out there now and cannot acknowledge it, I dont know.
What I do know is that in the midst of my pain (emotional and physical) and fear for the past week, running scared like a wounded bear in the woods, I managed to do undo in 5 minutes anything I might have done to help in the past 8 weeks.
As often is the case for me, words alone really cannot erase the harm I have done others. For this I am truly sorry. I came onto this board with the sincerest of intentions, though I see now that they were misguided. My fear of becoming addicted to these medications is real, no question there, but it disguises far greater fears that lurk in its shadow. My greatest unspoken fear, that my cancer would continue to spread despite 8 months of treatments, became a reality for me a week ago today. I had good reason to suspect it since December, and even tried to drop the hint to the people in my life, but nobody really wanted to acknowlege it, including me. I thought that if I stayed positive, or perhaps if I gave enough of myself, that God above might grant me clemency. I have been around long enough to know that the system does not work that way. I suppose I was looking for special consideration.
I thought that if I could control my pain meds, I could control my fear, and if I could control my fear, I could control my cancer. It all blew up in my face a week ago when I got the news that cancer, like the Sunni Muslims in Iraq, have simply been patiently waiting in ambush. The fight is not won; take down the mission is accomplished banner. In fact, the fight has only just begun.
I had come onto this board ostensibly to offer support to other addicts. I should have known that this was not the place to seek support in my cancer. Ironically, I dont like hanging out in cancer support groups because they whine too much.
I am sorry for the turmoil I have caused in the past few days. I see now that this was inevitable, that I set myself up for this crash quite some time ago. Someone told me recently that no matter how much support you think you have, you go through cancer alone. It was unfair of me to demand special dispensation from the people on this site. This site addresses addiction, not cancer.
It is also true that no matter how alone you feel, there are people out there who care and who are willing to help. Family and friends from every corner of my life, all the way back to early childhood, have been coming around here this week reaching out, trying to be there for me in my time of need. I am letting them in as best as I know how. I am new at this part of the game, but I am learning.
I am sorry that I said hurtful things in the past few days. I have been around long enough to know how to make a point with kindness, or not, and on Tuesday, what I wrote had nothing to do with kindness; I simply made a conscious decision to lash out.
One thing that I will acknowledge is that I do talk a lot. I process things through my finger tips, and like the ones who talk too much in the meetings, all it means in the final analysis is that I am needier than many. He who talks alot makes himself a target. I have known this for years. I will try to do better in the future. If I can be of help in a legitimate sense going forward, I will try to lend a hand. If I cannot, I will try to keep my mouth shut. I promise not to get confused about my motives when I look in on this board from here on out.
This is probably not much of an amends. I am sorry for that too. Please understand I am doing the best I can. I will try to learn from this and not repeat the mistakes that I have made in recent days. Again, I apologize for the hurt I have caused in recent days.
Sincerely,
David (August)
PS: I am so glad I start chemo today. The time for fear is over. The time to fight has begun. I prefer fighting to simply waiting to get hit by a train. I feel certain that I will do fine in my treatments.
i love the way you express yourself and i am so proud of you. let the people in, you do them a HUGE favor by doing so. my husband has a wall up and sometimes it is so hard to break down so i can get to him and i don't like it one bit. my prayers are with you today and always.
love
crystal
p.s. it's ok
love
crystal
p.s. it's ok
August,
I'm prayin' for ya' brother....Just as I have been....
What you are about to embark on is not easy. I've seen a few family members go though it also.....Good luck.......Take care...............................God bless
I'm here for ya' if ya' wanna talk or just need a shoulder........Bob
sunberst58@yahoo.com < Anytime.
I'm prayin' for ya' brother....Just as I have been....
What you are about to embark on is not easy. I've seen a few family members go though it also.....Good luck.......Take care...............................God bless
I'm here for ya' if ya' wanna talk or just need a shoulder........Bob
sunberst58@yahoo.com < Anytime.
Good Morning...
Sorry I haven't posted. I started posting a thought for the day in a new thread.
I thought today I'd post it here.
From the...Twenty-Four Hours a Day book,
April 8th,
Second, alcoholics and addicts recover their faith in a Power greater than themselves. They admit that they're helpless by themselves and they call on that Higher Power for help. They surrender their lives to God, as they understand him. They put their drink and or drug problem in God's hands and leave it there. They recover their faith in a Higher Power that can help them.
Have I recovered my faith?
Meditation for the day
You must make a stand for God. Believers in God are considered by some as peculiar people. You must even be willing to be deemed a fool for the sake of your faith. You must be ready to stand aside and let the fashions and customs of the world go by, when God's purposes are thereby fowarded. Be known by the marks that distinguish a believer in God. These are honesty, purity, unselfishness, love, gratitude, and humility.
Prayer for the day
I pray that I may be ready to profess my belief in God before others. I pray that I may not be turned aside by the skepticism and cynicism of unbelievers.
Take care................................................God bless..........................Bob
Sorry I haven't posted. I started posting a thought for the day in a new thread.
I thought today I'd post it here.
From the...Twenty-Four Hours a Day book,
April 8th,
Second, alcoholics and addicts recover their faith in a Power greater than themselves. They admit that they're helpless by themselves and they call on that Higher Power for help. They surrender their lives to God, as they understand him. They put their drink and or drug problem in God's hands and leave it there. They recover their faith in a Higher Power that can help them.
Have I recovered my faith?
Meditation for the day
You must make a stand for God. Believers in God are considered by some as peculiar people. You must even be willing to be deemed a fool for the sake of your faith. You must be ready to stand aside and let the fashions and customs of the world go by, when God's purposes are thereby fowarded. Be known by the marks that distinguish a believer in God. These are honesty, purity, unselfishness, love, gratitude, and humility.
Prayer for the day
I pray that I may be ready to profess my belief in God before others. I pray that I may not be turned aside by the skepticism and cynicism of unbelievers.
Take care................................................God bless..........................Bob
my gosh! it sure is bright in here!
i just love it when someone turns the light on. it lifts my soul to a higher level
isn't it grand when we turn our "weenie" moments into a smorgasboard of spiritual wealth? guidance requires action, but it does not guarantee safety. while i measure my own success in terms of our personal comfort and security the universe measures my success by how much i have learned. so long as i use comfort and security as our criteria of success, i will fear my own intuitive guidance because by its very nature it directs me into new cycles of learning that are sometimes uncomfortable.
thanks for this great big dose of hope, august.
the healing has begun! :)
it works! it really does.
much love to you -
sammy
i just love it when someone turns the light on. it lifts my soul to a higher level
isn't it grand when we turn our "weenie" moments into a smorgasboard of spiritual wealth? guidance requires action, but it does not guarantee safety. while i measure my own success in terms of our personal comfort and security the universe measures my success by how much i have learned. so long as i use comfort and security as our criteria of success, i will fear my own intuitive guidance because by its very nature it directs me into new cycles of learning that are sometimes uncomfortable.
thanks for this great big dose of hope, august.
the healing has begun! :)
it works! it really does.
much love to you -
sammy
August,
although I do not share Bobs' Enthusiasm on the higher power some form of motivation is always required. What works for 1 does not work for all. Something or someone motivates you to not want to be an addict because every day is a retrial of what you have put yourself through the day before and it is all too easy just to alleviate the problem for today by popping pills. You HAVE to latch on to this clearity as it does not come often through the fog of which we have found ourselves. Your "express written opinions" of the past few days are just that and have gotten you to this day and in my opinion that is therapy. Is it not much better to vent on a recovery board than not to vent at all or continue pulling down the ones who love you? I believe in my "express written opinion" that you do whatever it takes to keep your motivational ball rolling.DO IT. You are not alone in the mistakes you make or the way you feel mentally. You have Cowboyed Up and inspired me for another day. Thank You and may you find peace in yourself :)
although I do not share Bobs' Enthusiasm on the higher power some form of motivation is always required. What works for 1 does not work for all. Something or someone motivates you to not want to be an addict because every day is a retrial of what you have put yourself through the day before and it is all too easy just to alleviate the problem for today by popping pills. You HAVE to latch on to this clearity as it does not come often through the fog of which we have found ourselves. Your "express written opinions" of the past few days are just that and have gotten you to this day and in my opinion that is therapy. Is it not much better to vent on a recovery board than not to vent at all or continue pulling down the ones who love you? I believe in my "express written opinion" that you do whatever it takes to keep your motivational ball rolling.DO IT. You are not alone in the mistakes you make or the way you feel mentally. You have Cowboyed Up and inspired me for another day. Thank You and may you find peace in yourself :)
August nice to see u back, i was hoping you wouldn't leave, resding your posts is an inspiration for me, you might not think that you don't help' but let me tell you, you're a great help, hope you the best with your chemo, and our prayers are with you, just remember there are people out who truly care, you really need to write a book, your posts are awesome..........have a good one.....falcon
Hi August...
I won't pretend that I know what you deal with each day.I do pray that because of your circumstances it will bring you closer to Jesus.The older I get the more I realize that life on this earth is very short,especially when you compare it to eternity.
Most people do not understand or comprehend eternity.Most never take the time to find out what God is all about.Many make up a God that suits them.I hope you realize that God wouldn't place us here on earth without a plan or purpose for our lives.God never meant for us to be confused about who and what he is.Through our own stubborness we reject what God has offered to us.Jesus said"I am the way the truth and the light,no one comes to the father but through me."
I don't know why I feel the need to make sure you realize this,but I do.I think you have been hiding from the truth for what ever reasons and softly and gently Jesus is calling you.
Your truly in my heart today August!
Bish
I won't pretend that I know what you deal with each day.I do pray that because of your circumstances it will bring you closer to Jesus.The older I get the more I realize that life on this earth is very short,especially when you compare it to eternity.
Most people do not understand or comprehend eternity.Most never take the time to find out what God is all about.Many make up a God that suits them.I hope you realize that God wouldn't place us here on earth without a plan or purpose for our lives.God never meant for us to be confused about who and what he is.Through our own stubborness we reject what God has offered to us.Jesus said"I am the way the truth and the light,no one comes to the father but through me."
I don't know why I feel the need to make sure you realize this,but I do.I think you have been hiding from the truth for what ever reasons and softly and gently Jesus is calling you.
Your truly in my heart today August!
Bish
A. W. Contact me try1897@wmconnect.com If you know anything about med/malpractice as relates to hep-c tx and or Dr./ patient confidentiality. Thanks Tommy and Jeanie P.S. We live in West Virginia Eastern Panhandle area.
dear bish -
i was so thrilled to hear that your daughter is going to be ok. you are blessed by God, always, no matter what. but i have a feeling you already understand this.
you message today leads me to share something that i don't usually share on recovery boards. you know, bish, bill w. once said that AA is spiritual kindergarten. i believe that once we become somewhat clear on what this program of recovery is about, we have the choice to take our learning, spirits, much further. i have chosen to do so and share much of what have written here.
i'm in the process of fixin' a cobb salad with seafood, tonight for dinner. mmmmm, i am hungry! but i wanted to leave you with this before i logged off...for you bish, and i thank you for sharing earlier. i thank you, for you!
love -
sammy
_________
to love people is not philanthropy itself. philanthropy is love going into action. suppose that Jesus Christ had come to the earth to have his experience, and merely reported to us that God is love, merely reported that God loves you. that was all, just the report. there was no involvement. you were limited to just the idea that God loved you.
it was not a love that was responsible to you and you could never connect with it. it was not going to dry your tears and be uplifting to you. it would not direct you, or guide you, or put your feet upon the path. it would not guide you along the way. it was just a love that loved you from a distance and "kind of waved its hand." that's all you got, a wave of the hand. what kind of love would that be?
the power of Love is active in my life.
dear God,
thank You for loving us enough to be involved with us.
no matter what our current experience is You are with us,
waiting for an invitation.
we invite You to come into our hearts and minds in a larger way than before.
lead us, we are willing to follow the path of Love.
amen
_________
bish - while i realize this is the internet, i believe we all do what we can here with the words we write. i saw how the people in this community reached out and loved you in your time of need...just how they are loving august, in his time of need and everyone who is suffering. gosh, we need each other and the kind words, the kind acts we make with each keystrokes of our computer is evidence of the Christ within.
good night, my friend.
sammy
i was so thrilled to hear that your daughter is going to be ok. you are blessed by God, always, no matter what. but i have a feeling you already understand this.
you message today leads me to share something that i don't usually share on recovery boards. you know, bish, bill w. once said that AA is spiritual kindergarten. i believe that once we become somewhat clear on what this program of recovery is about, we have the choice to take our learning, spirits, much further. i have chosen to do so and share much of what have written here.
i'm in the process of fixin' a cobb salad with seafood, tonight for dinner. mmmmm, i am hungry! but i wanted to leave you with this before i logged off...for you bish, and i thank you for sharing earlier. i thank you, for you!
love -
sammy
_________
to love people is not philanthropy itself. philanthropy is love going into action. suppose that Jesus Christ had come to the earth to have his experience, and merely reported to us that God is love, merely reported that God loves you. that was all, just the report. there was no involvement. you were limited to just the idea that God loved you.
it was not a love that was responsible to you and you could never connect with it. it was not going to dry your tears and be uplifting to you. it would not direct you, or guide you, or put your feet upon the path. it would not guide you along the way. it was just a love that loved you from a distance and "kind of waved its hand." that's all you got, a wave of the hand. what kind of love would that be?
the power of Love is active in my life.
dear God,
thank You for loving us enough to be involved with us.
no matter what our current experience is You are with us,
waiting for an invitation.
we invite You to come into our hearts and minds in a larger way than before.
lead us, we are willing to follow the path of Love.
amen
_________
bish - while i realize this is the internet, i believe we all do what we can here with the words we write. i saw how the people in this community reached out and loved you in your time of need...just how they are loving august, in his time of need and everyone who is suffering. gosh, we need each other and the kind words, the kind acts we make with each keystrokes of our computer is evidence of the Christ within.
good night, my friend.
sammy
FWIW, I agree with Sammy on this. I entered the program ostensibly as an atheist. After I did my 2nd and 3rd, I realized that for something I did not believe in, I was certainly angry with God. Later I realized that my anger was not with God as much as with some of the people who practiced Christianity. Time passed, I stayed clean, and when I had nine years, I was contacted a second time, this time by Christ. It was very definite, very real. No mountain tops this time. It happened while I was reading a book about Hag Hammadi scrolls in bed. Following that experience, I thought about seminary; attended some night classes, but then I realized I am far too war-like in my mentality to thrive in that environment. That second experience transformed my personal and professional life in ways that I cannot describe. Christian history continues to be a hobby of mine.
A quick bit of history about spirituality that developed around AA: Bill W got sober with the help of an old school buddy (I forget his name) who "found religion." These two developed the concept of one alcoholic helping another and through him, I believe that Bill was introduced to the Oxford Group. That fellow went out on a slip and died a practicing alcoholic. Bill later met Dr. Bob and they went on to found AA, and the steps were formally written down and published 4 years later in 1939.
The Oxford Group was a small group of folks that were attempting to practice Christianity as it had been practiced in the first 100 years following Christs death, long before Constantine institutionalized Christianity. The Church hierarchy was actually structured in a manner similar to the Roman Army. The Oxford Group, on the other hand, was trying to return to a very pure spirituality, free of rank, prestige, power or property and very true to Christ's message of helping one another. It is not hard to see where the 12 step comes from. Also, in case folks did not notice, 12 Apostles, 12 Steps, and 12 Promises at step 9 (I counted them the other night). Bill W. actually got into a dispute with the first 100 (who wrote the Big Book as a consensus project). Some of those folks were more like me they carried a lot of hostility toward Christianity into recovery, so the decision was made to use the Higher Power concept. However, if you really read a lot of the early writings, the stamp of Christianity is all over it. As Bill Sees It is a good example.
The compromise around the HP concept allows newcomers to pick their own concept of an HP. As they learn how to live sober through a process of faith, service, introspection, and accountability, their faith often grows, and the theory holds that they will naturally gravitate toward the Truth. I know for me, at one point, it was imperitive that I return to the Church that I grew up in. Thus we have the saying that recovery is a journey, not a destination.
For those who are wondering none of this is required; these are just the rambling of someone who is rather tired at the moment.
Whenever I have doubts or fears of my own situation, I always return to the core truth of my life: that I have a relationship with my HP and that he cares for me and that I trust him. It is more real to me than gravity.
I am probably not making much sense. I am a little spacey right now, but this happens to be a subject that I am very interested in. I think I have edited out most of the stuff that might bring about a sense of alienation from a reader, but if I have offended, please allow me to apologize in advance. I blame it on all the stuff at the doctors office today.
Thanks for all the nice posts, folks! It was great to have them waiting for me when I arrived home from the Doctor today. Sorry for yet another long post.
David
A quick bit of history about spirituality that developed around AA: Bill W got sober with the help of an old school buddy (I forget his name) who "found religion." These two developed the concept of one alcoholic helping another and through him, I believe that Bill was introduced to the Oxford Group. That fellow went out on a slip and died a practicing alcoholic. Bill later met Dr. Bob and they went on to found AA, and the steps were formally written down and published 4 years later in 1939.
The Oxford Group was a small group of folks that were attempting to practice Christianity as it had been practiced in the first 100 years following Christs death, long before Constantine institutionalized Christianity. The Church hierarchy was actually structured in a manner similar to the Roman Army. The Oxford Group, on the other hand, was trying to return to a very pure spirituality, free of rank, prestige, power or property and very true to Christ's message of helping one another. It is not hard to see where the 12 step comes from. Also, in case folks did not notice, 12 Apostles, 12 Steps, and 12 Promises at step 9 (I counted them the other night). Bill W. actually got into a dispute with the first 100 (who wrote the Big Book as a consensus project). Some of those folks were more like me they carried a lot of hostility toward Christianity into recovery, so the decision was made to use the Higher Power concept. However, if you really read a lot of the early writings, the stamp of Christianity is all over it. As Bill Sees It is a good example.
The compromise around the HP concept allows newcomers to pick their own concept of an HP. As they learn how to live sober through a process of faith, service, introspection, and accountability, their faith often grows, and the theory holds that they will naturally gravitate toward the Truth. I know for me, at one point, it was imperitive that I return to the Church that I grew up in. Thus we have the saying that recovery is a journey, not a destination.
For those who are wondering none of this is required; these are just the rambling of someone who is rather tired at the moment.
Whenever I have doubts or fears of my own situation, I always return to the core truth of my life: that I have a relationship with my HP and that he cares for me and that I trust him. It is more real to me than gravity.
I am probably not making much sense. I am a little spacey right now, but this happens to be a subject that I am very interested in. I think I have edited out most of the stuff that might bring about a sense of alienation from a reader, but if I have offended, please allow me to apologize in advance. I blame it on all the stuff at the doctors office today.
Thanks for all the nice posts, folks! It was great to have them waiting for me when I arrived home from the Doctor today. Sorry for yet another long post.
David
August,
Thanks for coming back to the board. It started me thinking that either my email to you last nite was so bad that you thought she's such an idiot, I have to talk to other people that make sense or that my email was so good that it inspired you to come back or that I didn't have anything to do with you posting again on this message board. I choose the later because the first two are all about my ego. You came back to post because you wanted to and needed to do this to help yourself. Anyway, any contact from you in any form helps me.
God bless you today with your round of chemo.
Sharon
Thanks for coming back to the board. It started me thinking that either my email to you last nite was so bad that you thought she's such an idiot, I have to talk to other people that make sense or that my email was so good that it inspired you to come back or that I didn't have anything to do with you posting again on this message board. I choose the later because the first two are all about my ego. You came back to post because you wanted to and needed to do this to help yourself. Anyway, any contact from you in any form helps me.
God bless you today with your round of chemo.
Sharon
that would be ebby t., david.
love ya -
sammy
love ya -
sammy
Bish, I forgot to write that I was very relieved to learn that your daughter was not as badly injured as you feared. I am glad you got down there and was able to be with her. I really appreciate your words, above, as well.
No matter how we get there, to me, the program is very much about transformation through a journey of faith.
David
No matter how we get there, to me, the program is very much about transformation through a journey of faith.
David
Well, Sharon, this may sound a little familiar, but I did not get the email from you last night, and I went to bed feeling that I must have alienated you to the point that you had written me off. Either that or maybe you had a life of your own that needed attending to. :-)
I got your message this morning. I saw in my inbox just after I posted my amends, above.
But I can tell you this, you and about two others, you each know who you are, were so kind to me at a time when I was having trouble seeing things clearly. I know it is hard to do that when someone is not making much sense and when they are kind of coming out of left field as I was. When I am troubled, it has something to do with my program, and I suppose you all set an example that helped me realize that I needed to practice what try to preach. God forbid that I should ever get so big for my britches that this stuff does not apply to me. I think my visit to the dr. office went better today for my having swept up on my side of the street just a little.
Blessings and peace to all, and especially the three people who sent me emails. I really appreciated each one.
David
I got your message this morning. I saw in my inbox just after I posted my amends, above.
But I can tell you this, you and about two others, you each know who you are, were so kind to me at a time when I was having trouble seeing things clearly. I know it is hard to do that when someone is not making much sense and when they are kind of coming out of left field as I was. When I am troubled, it has something to do with my program, and I suppose you all set an example that helped me realize that I needed to practice what try to preach. God forbid that I should ever get so big for my britches that this stuff does not apply to me. I think my visit to the dr. office went better today for my having swept up on my side of the street just a little.
Blessings and peace to all, and especially the three people who sent me emails. I really appreciated each one.
David
When Bill W.took out Jesus Christ in the 12 steps,it left confusion,anger and frustration amoung members who had little spiritual background.The power doesn't come from the steps themselves,but rather Jesus Christ who defeated death in order that we may live!!!!
God loved us SO MUCH that he knew his creation of man(woman)would die in their own sins without the shedding of blood.Because God is holy,He cannot except us with our sinful nature.He made the extreme sacrifice by giving His Son,who never experienced sin to die that we may live!!!!!! During old testament times God commanded sacrifices for the atonement of sin....sweet innocent lambs were slaughtered and burnt on an alter.This practice was done nore than daily.
Through God's great wisdom,mercy and grace He put away the animal sacrifices and gave His Son Jesus to be the final sacrifice and final one to have to shed blood for the forgiveness of sins.
Sammy....You said some powerful and wonderful words!!!!!! Thank You for sharing your thougths and insights with me!!!!!
After seeing "the Passion of the Christ",and Easter only a few days away,I am filled with much joy and gratitude.I pray all on this board will someday SOON,feel what it's like to be a spiritually filled Christian!!!
God Bless
Bish
With all due respect, Bish.... I think the problem with "Christianity" is that there are so many people with so many different ideas about what "Christianity" is. Am I a Christian? Yes. Do I believe in Christ as my Savior? Yes. *But* there are people out there (and I'm not saying you are one of them in any way) that believe I am going to h*ll anyway because of my specific beliefs. I think perhaps that is why the decision was made to change the 12-step program from a Christian-based program to a Faith-based or Higher Power - based program. I hope this makes sense and doesn't offfend because it wasn't meant to. :-)
Point of order: Bill wanted to leave Jesus Christ in. It was by consensus of the others that it was taken out.
Sorry Bish, but it is possible to be a Christian without believing in Sacrificial Atonement. Some of us might believe in Substitutional Atonement, others in Exemplary Atonement, and others in different theories or combinations thereof. Differences in theological construction are one reason that we have so many denominations of Christianity throughout the world, and here in America, last time I checked, we are allowed to worship as we wish.
While I have no intention of entering a theological debate, I think the 12 Steps are faith based in order to get people moving on the path in the right direction. I for one would never have gotten sober if somebody demanded that I believe a particular way. If everybody could get it in church, then the 12 Step programs would not have proliferated as they have. By the same token, others are free to try different approaches to getting sober. It is one of the great strengths of this country that we are afforded these kinds of freedom.
I will continue to believe that Christ's essential message can be found by working the Steps, and my personal experience with Christ, I believe, bears that out. Sorry if you feel differently.
To the moderator: I apologize in advance. Do what you will with this thread.
Sincerely,
David
Sorry Bish, but it is possible to be a Christian without believing in Sacrificial Atonement. Some of us might believe in Substitutional Atonement, others in Exemplary Atonement, and others in different theories or combinations thereof. Differences in theological construction are one reason that we have so many denominations of Christianity throughout the world, and here in America, last time I checked, we are allowed to worship as we wish.
While I have no intention of entering a theological debate, I think the 12 Steps are faith based in order to get people moving on the path in the right direction. I for one would never have gotten sober if somebody demanded that I believe a particular way. If everybody could get it in church, then the 12 Step programs would not have proliferated as they have. By the same token, others are free to try different approaches to getting sober. It is one of the great strengths of this country that we are afforded these kinds of freedom.
I will continue to believe that Christ's essential message can be found by working the Steps, and my personal experience with Christ, I believe, bears that out. Sorry if you feel differently.
To the moderator: I apologize in advance. Do what you will with this thread.
Sincerely,
David
There sure is alot of power in that name"Jesus."I've seen it stir up,guilt,anger,resentment,fear,joy and happiness.I don't know why you thought the moderater might needed to be involved in this thread.
As a Bible believing Christian I've been asked several and maybe hundreds of times to keep an open mind and respect the thoughts and opinions of others beliefs.I thought I was doing that,even though at times I do not recieve the same open mindedness and respect from others.I am in no way pointing any fingers here,but only reflecting on some past experiences.
I do not subject myself to debates,because it serves no purpose,especially to those that are not fimiliar with nor understand the concept of faith and eventually lose complete interest because of a few debating.I will tell you that it hurts me when people judge me.It hurts when someone assumes that I would think they would go to Hell because they are a Christian,but do not believe as I do.I don't even know what issues these even are.
I came here only to share hope for those that still struggle.I made it known from the beginning my hope and faith in Jesus Christ.I do not recall force feeding anything down ones throat to make them see eye to eye with me.I think my past posts can speak for themselves.
Again...Thank you SO much for your thoughts and prayers for me and my family in our time of need,I just can't find the right words to express how much that meant to me!!!!
I love sharing my hope and faith with addicts.I would not of found recovery if not for another addict sharing his hope and faith in Jesus Christ with me.As I reflect on this man a couple years ago it brings tears of gratitude! I am so grateful that he still persevered with his message while being mocked,shunned,and ridiculed by other recoverying addicts.At meetings I would see him sitting alone and this man had the guts to go to Perkins after the meetings to socialize.I wanted whatever program this man had!!!!!!! and I started sitting with him at meetings and soon others joined us.
I think this man has as perfect as perfect can get program! I do my best to follow in his footsteps while keeping my individuality.
Maybe I'm spending too much time here on one message board.I do find I get repetitive in alot of my posts.So as not to sound like an old worn out record,I think I'll start searching out other recovery message boards along with this one.
Thank you for giving me so much insight.So many people here with great insight and wisdom concerning addiction.Groups like this one are hard to find,so please recognize and cherish what a wonderful group of people you have here.
God Bless.
Bish
As a Bible believing Christian I've been asked several and maybe hundreds of times to keep an open mind and respect the thoughts and opinions of others beliefs.I thought I was doing that,even though at times I do not recieve the same open mindedness and respect from others.I am in no way pointing any fingers here,but only reflecting on some past experiences.
I do not subject myself to debates,because it serves no purpose,especially to those that are not fimiliar with nor understand the concept of faith and eventually lose complete interest because of a few debating.I will tell you that it hurts me when people judge me.It hurts when someone assumes that I would think they would go to Hell because they are a Christian,but do not believe as I do.I don't even know what issues these even are.
I came here only to share hope for those that still struggle.I made it known from the beginning my hope and faith in Jesus Christ.I do not recall force feeding anything down ones throat to make them see eye to eye with me.I think my past posts can speak for themselves.
Again...Thank you SO much for your thoughts and prayers for me and my family in our time of need,I just can't find the right words to express how much that meant to me!!!!
I love sharing my hope and faith with addicts.I would not of found recovery if not for another addict sharing his hope and faith in Jesus Christ with me.As I reflect on this man a couple years ago it brings tears of gratitude! I am so grateful that he still persevered with his message while being mocked,shunned,and ridiculed by other recoverying addicts.At meetings I would see him sitting alone and this man had the guts to go to Perkins after the meetings to socialize.I wanted whatever program this man had!!!!!!! and I started sitting with him at meetings and soon others joined us.
I think this man has as perfect as perfect can get program! I do my best to follow in his footsteps while keeping my individuality.
Maybe I'm spending too much time here on one message board.I do find I get repetitive in alot of my posts.So as not to sound like an old worn out record,I think I'll start searching out other recovery message boards along with this one.
Thank you for giving me so much insight.So many people here with great insight and wisdom concerning addiction.Groups like this one are hard to find,so please recognize and cherish what a wonderful group of people you have here.
God Bless.
Bish
ah geeeeeesh bish -
clunk - the light just went out again!
why are you leaving? because someone happens to disagree with what you have to say? i can't tell you the number of times people have disagreed with what i had say in these online forums and my face to face interactions in life. and - i can't tell you how many times i have had the feeling of fleeing in order to escape my perceived hurt feelings and rejection. however, the longer i stick around, and practice love and tolerance, the greater my faith grows in this God of my understanding.
the God of my understanding is too big, too loving, too Powerful to hide what light i have had the opportunity to see, just because of a difference of opinion or the free will of man. this friend you write of that has become your mentor so to speak, at the AA meetings you attend - what would have happened had he not come back because he felt so alone - not accepted - left to a world of his own? would he or anyone who had gone on to embrace his message, as part of their recovery, been of benefit of the love he has to share?
i tell ya, i like to call these moments that i have when my big fat ego, rears its' ugly head and tells me that i am less than, as my "weenie" moments. i can be such a weenie at times and do need to be reminded that what my God has created, it is perfect. how arrogant of me to think that any single person (self included) who takes the time to share here or cross the path that i am walking is not perfect. who am i to question what God has created in my fellow man? your message, just as mine, and everyone here, especially the struggling, is so very important. our messages come from a place that is sacred, even as our ego gets in our way - and are to be shared so we can unlock our fears, nurture and empower each other to a greater understanding of this spiritual awakening we are on.
so i'm going to ask you, bish to get your butt back in here and turn that light back on. everyone doesn't have to agree with everyone and just because someone happens to not agree with what i say, then so be it! all we can do bish, is carry our experience, our strength, our hope, and most of all our love to those who may want it. to what avail is it to put your light out by leaving? how do we love people when we hold them at arms length? let your light shine - brilliantly beam over the pages of this forum...i appreciate you so.
love -
sammy
clunk - the light just went out again!
why are you leaving? because someone happens to disagree with what you have to say? i can't tell you the number of times people have disagreed with what i had say in these online forums and my face to face interactions in life. and - i can't tell you how many times i have had the feeling of fleeing in order to escape my perceived hurt feelings and rejection. however, the longer i stick around, and practice love and tolerance, the greater my faith grows in this God of my understanding.
the God of my understanding is too big, too loving, too Powerful to hide what light i have had the opportunity to see, just because of a difference of opinion or the free will of man. this friend you write of that has become your mentor so to speak, at the AA meetings you attend - what would have happened had he not come back because he felt so alone - not accepted - left to a world of his own? would he or anyone who had gone on to embrace his message, as part of their recovery, been of benefit of the love he has to share?
i tell ya, i like to call these moments that i have when my big fat ego, rears its' ugly head and tells me that i am less than, as my "weenie" moments. i can be such a weenie at times and do need to be reminded that what my God has created, it is perfect. how arrogant of me to think that any single person (self included) who takes the time to share here or cross the path that i am walking is not perfect. who am i to question what God has created in my fellow man? your message, just as mine, and everyone here, especially the struggling, is so very important. our messages come from a place that is sacred, even as our ego gets in our way - and are to be shared so we can unlock our fears, nurture and empower each other to a greater understanding of this spiritual awakening we are on.
so i'm going to ask you, bish to get your butt back in here and turn that light back on. everyone doesn't have to agree with everyone and just because someone happens to not agree with what i say, then so be it! all we can do bish, is carry our experience, our strength, our hope, and most of all our love to those who may want it. to what avail is it to put your light out by leaving? how do we love people when we hold them at arms length? let your light shine - brilliantly beam over the pages of this forum...i appreciate you so.
love -
sammy
