When an addict or alcoholic commits crimes is it the chemicals, urges/lack of discipline or a criminal just waiting to get out. They might have strong urges but not everyone commits crimes, lies, steals, manipulates people like a conman to fulfill them.
Do they chemical really tell someone how to pry open a locked door or window, pick a lock, take what is not theirs or run a long con like a professional grifter?
Personally I think if one looks/thinks back long enough they were already signs of moral deficiencies before they got addicted. Maybe that poor impulse control steered to the chemicals in the first place. Some of these addicts and alcoholics would make excellent career criminals intoxicated or sober.
Maybe this is why for some an arrest, jail and court mandate seems to work for the incentive for rehab/change.
How about a wall,
I think what you are arguing is what many of us have grappled with: Disease or moral compass? I have to say, with my daughter, I once thought she was a sociopath. I thought she may have had a personality disorder, the way she could lie in stride like she were merely breathing or drinking a glass of water. But after a while, I saw how much her addiction tormented her. She would try so hard, and then it would be like a dam breaking. She was holding it back with all her might, then she would give out, and the addiction would overtake her.
As to the criminal element, I think the addiction is like a infant to the addict. They will do what it takes to feed it, including stealing, and they don't look past the moment to see the consequences of their behavior or who they hurt. My daughter is in rehab now, and the court mandated participants are the most dangerous for her. They are showing up to the meetings high, and they are offering my daughter drugs on a daily basis. Last week, she faltered and went with one of them. She went on a heroin bender, and she's pulling out of it now. She's starts back in sober living tomorrow, but we'll see what happens. It feels like she's going to have a long road ahead of her. I have seen my daughter steal and do a lot of other shady things for her addiction. It's very sad to watch when she's willing to sell her soul for the drug.
I think what you are arguing is what many of us have grappled with: Disease or moral compass? I have to say, with my daughter, I once thought she was a sociopath. I thought she may have had a personality disorder, the way she could lie in stride like she were merely breathing or drinking a glass of water. But after a while, I saw how much her addiction tormented her. She would try so hard, and then it would be like a dam breaking. She was holding it back with all her might, then she would give out, and the addiction would overtake her.
As to the criminal element, I think the addiction is like a infant to the addict. They will do what it takes to feed it, including stealing, and they don't look past the moment to see the consequences of their behavior or who they hurt. My daughter is in rehab now, and the court mandated participants are the most dangerous for her. They are showing up to the meetings high, and they are offering my daughter drugs on a daily basis. Last week, she faltered and went with one of them. She went on a heroin bender, and she's pulling out of it now. She's starts back in sober living tomorrow, but we'll see what happens. It feels like she's going to have a long road ahead of her. I have seen my daughter steal and do a lot of other shady things for her addiction. It's very sad to watch when she's willing to sell her soul for the drug.
Drug addiction leads to criminal behavior, for sure. If not for addiction, people would not have the need to steal, or sell their bodies, or all the other ways of getting money. And, being out of your mind on drugs leads to a host of other criminal activity.
It still is not an excuse, and the person has to be responsible for the criminal acts.
I don't see how you can argue against a direct correlation between the two.
It still is not an excuse, and the person has to be responsible for the criminal acts.
I don't see how you can argue against a direct correlation between the two.
Jointheclub
Thank You for your thoughts.
I agree that addiction is definitely strong incentive. But I've also seen zombie drunks and addicts that just burn the bank account, finances, marriage etc and that is their bottom, they don't commit crime to continue. They just break down and go into a program or rehab. Doesn't mean they won't relapse. As a matter the 'legal' addicts I've seen/known take multiple incidents and attempts to sober up but they do it. They seem to recognize or find a bottom on their own.
The addict/alcoholic I'm dealing with always tried to game the system or play people since late high school. As time went on they always acted like they knew better doing what they wanted wether it be a short cut driving or ignoring consequence doing it 'their way'. They had their first dui by 19. They are still getting them around 50. I also remember chasing them down for money $400 in their late teens/early 20s.They've stuck people/family for at least$20,000 as an adult around 50 trying to rationalize it as 'family'. They also bragged how they conned/fooled a program counselor they needed no more. In the meantime their drinking is as big as it's ever been and they have suffered health related consequences like stroke, diabetes, gout, high bp etc and complain about their medical plan from their job.
Maybe it's the lack of legal creativity that gets many addicts into the criminal justice system which can be a good thing or nothing but a school & validation for criminal/unethical behavior surrounding drug abuse.
I guess the question becomes does desperation supersede personal responsibility.
Thank You for your thoughts.
I agree that addiction is definitely strong incentive. But I've also seen zombie drunks and addicts that just burn the bank account, finances, marriage etc and that is their bottom, they don't commit crime to continue. They just break down and go into a program or rehab. Doesn't mean they won't relapse. As a matter the 'legal' addicts I've seen/known take multiple incidents and attempts to sober up but they do it. They seem to recognize or find a bottom on their own.
The addict/alcoholic I'm dealing with always tried to game the system or play people since late high school. As time went on they always acted like they knew better doing what they wanted wether it be a short cut driving or ignoring consequence doing it 'their way'. They had their first dui by 19. They are still getting them around 50. I also remember chasing them down for money $400 in their late teens/early 20s.They've stuck people/family for at least$20,000 as an adult around 50 trying to rationalize it as 'family'. They also bragged how they conned/fooled a program counselor they needed no more. In the meantime their drinking is as big as it's ever been and they have suffered health related consequences like stroke, diabetes, gout, high bp etc and complain about their medical plan from their job.
Maybe it's the lack of legal creativity that gets many addicts into the criminal justice system which can be a good thing or nothing but a school & validation for criminal/unethical behavior surrounding drug abuse.
I guess the question becomes does desperation supersede personal responsibility.
I guess the question becomes does desperation supersede personal responsibility.
Ask a parent of the person that lost or never had much of a moral compass and you will get very complicated answers. They have seen all sides of this person. They have loved this person with all their heart and in most cases this person has loved them. Maybe none of it was perfect but that relationship existed. Who can know what came first personality problem or addiction? Maybe we could have peace if we knew.
Ask the same question of someone that has been wronged and suffered the consequences of this same addicts behavior and you will get another completely different answer. This person is not normal or nice. They are screwed up and out of control. They hurt people over and over through word or deed.
I am both of these people. Maybe we will never have answers ... it just is what it is. I do know we can protect ourselves from some hurt by saying no. My son believes that we have to love him unconditionally and be there no matter what forever. Giving him all we have emotionally and monetarily. He had me convinced if this but I finally learned to say no. I finally learned to do for me not him. I do believe he has a personality disorder but the cause and origin are unknown.
Ask a parent of the person that lost or never had much of a moral compass and you will get very complicated answers. They have seen all sides of this person. They have loved this person with all their heart and in most cases this person has loved them. Maybe none of it was perfect but that relationship existed. Who can know what came first personality problem or addiction? Maybe we could have peace if we knew.
Ask the same question of someone that has been wronged and suffered the consequences of this same addicts behavior and you will get another completely different answer. This person is not normal or nice. They are screwed up and out of control. They hurt people over and over through word or deed.
I am both of these people. Maybe we will never have answers ... it just is what it is. I do know we can protect ourselves from some hurt by saying no. My son believes that we have to love him unconditionally and be there no matter what forever. Giving him all we have emotionally and monetarily. He had me convinced if this but I finally learned to say no. I finally learned to do for me not him. I do believe he has a personality disorder but the cause and origin are unknown.
