Yesterday was Easter for all of us Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, Albanian, Armenian, etc) and as per usual I had my extended family over for the day - siblings, cousins and their families, aunts - the whole lot. Two of my cousins are married to alcoholics who happen to be best friends, and both marriages are better than 20 years long.
One of the guys is a terrific guy, good dad, husband, and provider, would give any of us the shirt off his back, always lends a hand to my mom and aunt when needed but...he drank an entire fifth of Seagram's yesterday in just under five hours just to maintain. Last year he began having seizures related to his drinking and the doc told him he had maybe a couple of years left if he didn't stop - he's 49. He went to six weeks of rehab and started drinking again four months later saying, "I never thought I was supposed to stop forever." His sons are frustrated and angry that he has chosen the bottle over them and the family. His wife said she's glad he now works the night shift and is asleep when she leaves work and vice versa because she doesn't want to watch it anymore. She said she feels like it's just her and the boys living in the home so it's giving her a chance to get used to it for the day that's the reality.
The other husband hasn't shown up for a family event in five years - he has very little to do even with his wife and son. Yesterday he was "working" - aka drinking all day in peace. His 19 year old son long ago accepted that he and his mother would always be second to the bottle and has since gotten over his bitterness.
With my own dad's history I am grateful that none of the five of us ended up there because at one time or another we were all perilously close to falling into that abyss either with drugs and/or alcohol. Some fell and climbed back out, but none stayed there.
It's all so very sad. So many families living the results of a loved one's alcoholism. So happy for those who have found a way out.
Peace~MomNMore
Hi mornnomore. It is indeed sad that alcohol rules the lives of so many.so many families and lives destroyed. Here where I live this past winter there were two accidental deaths that were alcohol related. Every year someone dies from what was so preventable. It is so sad to see a mother lose her son,a woman lose her husband,and children to lose their dad. Why aren't there any warnings on booze bottles.? I know it would not stop people from drinking but maybe just maybe someone would be saved if they read the warnings and stop and think before they drank. It is one of the worst poisons in the world and yet is so accessible. The damage caused by alcohol in this world will continue unless the would be future users are more educated and informed of the dangers of addiction and consequences of drinking, and I think this should be enforced at a early age. Maybe with education a life could be saved before the alcohol has gotten its grips on yet another young life. God bless and take care
I once saw here in the UK on tv a programme that said if alcohol was introduced as a new 'drug' it would be a class A drug alongside heroin... scary how it's just put out there so anyone can buy it. There was an alcohol related death in my neighbouring street last year. A boy was passed out in the street in the freezing cold and people knew he was there and did nothing. He was dead the next morning...
Hey Izzy glad to see you back(( )))) Hope you are doing good. Yea there was a guy here killed a couple of years ago at 18 years of age in a car with young driver who drank before he drove and was speeding.So tragic. Alcohol kills in more ways than one NO DOUBT about it.It's all so sad and the worst thing is, it is all so preventable. Hey have you seen the new show thats on TV called celebrity reab.Maybe it's not new show but it's new to us. I watched it last night. anyway take care Izzy and its good to know that you are still poppin in to see us lol.Take care.
Thanks for sharing, Mom....
There, but for the Grace of God, go I.
Today I am grateful that I no longer cause the pain, hurt, humiliation and embarrassment to my family that active alcoholism created in my life....
I will keep your family in my prayers....
xoxo
Stacey
There, but for the Grace of God, go I.
Today I am grateful that I no longer cause the pain, hurt, humiliation and embarrassment to my family that active alcoholism created in my life....
I will keep your family in my prayers....
xoxo
Stacey
Hi Mom.
Alcoholism is a nasty way to go.The problem is that you can coast for years before the physical reprussions start becoming major health issues.That's why a lot of alcoholics never stop.They can maintain jobs,socialize and function while maintaining a continous buzz.
I have a client who is like that.He is actually two years younger than me and looks about 20 years older.He has gout,distended stomach,broken blood vessels in his face and that's just what you can see.We've had conversations about it because he knows I'm in the program.He is one of the nicest and most generous clients I have.I absolutely adore him.Every time I work at his house,I leave just totally depressed.He thinks he's invincible.He has all the money in the world and somehow in his sick thinking,justifies that its his ticket out when he chooses.
He also does coke and smokes pot on occasions but is adamant that he never abuses it.I mean only druggies do that.
God has put this guy in my life for a reason.I never push AA or mention anything about recovery to him if not asked.He knows I'm in so if he starts asking questions,I can go there.
I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this in your family.You may be the one who they ultimately turn to.I'm very conservative with my approach to these things because I've had it turn on me.I let them know that I'm a recovering addict and I'm in a twelve step program and then drop it.I leave it to them to ask questions..........and they always do.
I always have to remember......It's a program of attraction not promotion.He's also a client and not a family member.
It's funny but everytime I go over to Teri's house I feel him getting more and more curious but maybe that's wishful thinking?
Alcoholism is a nasty way to go.The problem is that you can coast for years before the physical reprussions start becoming major health issues.That's why a lot of alcoholics never stop.They can maintain jobs,socialize and function while maintaining a continous buzz.
I have a client who is like that.He is actually two years younger than me and looks about 20 years older.He has gout,distended stomach,broken blood vessels in his face and that's just what you can see.We've had conversations about it because he knows I'm in the program.He is one of the nicest and most generous clients I have.I absolutely adore him.Every time I work at his house,I leave just totally depressed.He thinks he's invincible.He has all the money in the world and somehow in his sick thinking,justifies that its his ticket out when he chooses.
He also does coke and smokes pot on occasions but is adamant that he never abuses it.I mean only druggies do that.
God has put this guy in my life for a reason.I never push AA or mention anything about recovery to him if not asked.He knows I'm in so if he starts asking questions,I can go there.
I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this in your family.You may be the one who they ultimately turn to.I'm very conservative with my approach to these things because I've had it turn on me.I let them know that I'm a recovering addict and I'm in a twelve step program and then drop it.I leave it to them to ask questions..........and they always do.
I always have to remember......It's a program of attraction not promotion.He's also a client and not a family member.
It's funny but everytime I go over to Teri's house I feel him getting more and more curious but maybe that's wishful thinking?
It's so sad, Tim. Unlike your friend who seems to think he's fine - "immortal" as you said, this man seems to have accepted that his end due to alcoholism is inevitable and so......it's too late...or too hard...or the damage is done...it smacks of defeatism. Your friend/client is lucky to have someone who is ready for him when/if he reaches out...hard to watch, though, huh?
We have a very open family dynamic and no one really judges or pontificates...mostly we just rally for the rest of the affected family, but it does sadden all concerned to see the deterioration. It's such a waste of a wonderful man - he has such a big heart and so much to offer. I am grateful that the younger members - the three sons of the two men - have turned to my daughter to talk freely. They were sort of trying to make light of their situations and asking R how she can be clean and sober at their age - how does she have fun?...what does she do?...how do her friends react?...are all her friends abstainers?...all the usual questions and curiosity. She was able to tell them she loves her sobriety and described it as "fun"...music to my ears. I think it also made her appreciate her own dad's stability and involvement in family life (despite the fact that there have been times I've questioned whether he has a drinking problem...sometimes still do).
My own dad was an unpredictable drunk - we either got the life of the party or a mean and abusive terrorist. He later became a cocaine abuser and spent every last nickel on it - and he made plenty of money, more in a year than most people make in 20, but it was never enough to keep up with his profligate habits. My dad thought he was immortal, too, and said so on a regular basis. Now he's been told he has about 12 - 18 months left and told me he always thought he'd be a live-fast-die-young kind of guy, and if he knew he was going to live this long he'd have taken better care of himself.
This addiction is a killer. Thanks for the ear...sometimes it helps just to get it out there.
Peace~MomNMore
We have a very open family dynamic and no one really judges or pontificates...mostly we just rally for the rest of the affected family, but it does sadden all concerned to see the deterioration. It's such a waste of a wonderful man - he has such a big heart and so much to offer. I am grateful that the younger members - the three sons of the two men - have turned to my daughter to talk freely. They were sort of trying to make light of their situations and asking R how she can be clean and sober at their age - how does she have fun?...what does she do?...how do her friends react?...are all her friends abstainers?...all the usual questions and curiosity. She was able to tell them she loves her sobriety and described it as "fun"...music to my ears. I think it also made her appreciate her own dad's stability and involvement in family life (despite the fact that there have been times I've questioned whether he has a drinking problem...sometimes still do).
My own dad was an unpredictable drunk - we either got the life of the party or a mean and abusive terrorist. He later became a cocaine abuser and spent every last nickel on it - and he made plenty of money, more in a year than most people make in 20, but it was never enough to keep up with his profligate habits. My dad thought he was immortal, too, and said so on a regular basis. Now he's been told he has about 12 - 18 months left and told me he always thought he'd be a live-fast-die-young kind of guy, and if he knew he was going to live this long he'd have taken better care of himself.
This addiction is a killer. Thanks for the ear...sometimes it helps just to get it out there.
Peace~MomNMore
| QUOTE |
| this man seems to have accepted that his end due to alcoholism is inevitable and so......it's too late...or too hard...or the damage is done...it smacks of defeatism. |
I know the feelings. It's called "hopeless," and even though I knew that people were recovering, I believed that I would have to lose everything--my toys, my lifestyle, my money, my world. When I was 'out there' it was the only peace--even if it wasn't all that peaceful--for my tortured mind.
It IS attraction rather than promotion. It's also about knocking down the macho facade and 'allowing' him to speak to someone who understands. "I Understand How You Feel." These are 'The Five Words' that saved this man's life when presented by the right person. This guy's got to be allowed to see that other "manly men" can do it and save face, because right now the pride and fear within are probably keeping him drunk--and he's too much of a coward to kill himself. MY favorite was, "Hey, we're all going to die someday--I'd prefer not to know!" followed by adequate laughter and smugness.
There's an OLD Steely Dan tune that says, "They got a name for the winners in the world, and I want a name when I lose; They call Alabama the Crimson Tide, call me Deacon Blue.... Drink scotch whiskey all night long, and die behind the wheel..." Gallows humor.
He's scared--that's my guess. Point someone to him who's got no connection to the family what-so-ever, away from any meetings or anything, and do a lunch or coffee maybe? Something non-threatening. Hope is a powerful thing...
Just my two cents.
Your two cents is worth way more than that to me skg. He was doing so well after rehab, really rallying and seemingly enjoying himself...it gave his family such hope. His employer (BU BTW), footed the bill as it's part of his coverage, and made it very easy for him to segue right back into work while he was gone...very supportive and high-tolerance for substance abuse and the need for rehab.
Maybe I can pass along your suggestion to his wife and oldest son, they live about 50-60 miles from me so it's hard to do much for him from here not knowing the community. Funny thing is, he was so supportive and proud of my daughter.
We gave her a beautiful pendant for her 21st birthday - it has a carved-out tree on a gold plate and behind it silver plate with a tiny version of the serenity prayer carved into it. She wears it everyday. here's the link as I think it makes a lovely gift for those in recovery - or anyone really. Sanctuary
They also have a pendant that says, "Nothing is worth more than this day." - an excellent reminder for all of us.
Thanks, guys. ~M&M
Maybe I can pass along your suggestion to his wife and oldest son, they live about 50-60 miles from me so it's hard to do much for him from here not knowing the community. Funny thing is, he was so supportive and proud of my daughter.
We gave her a beautiful pendant for her 21st birthday - it has a carved-out tree on a gold plate and behind it silver plate with a tiny version of the serenity prayer carved into it. She wears it everyday. here's the link as I think it makes a lovely gift for those in recovery - or anyone really. Sanctuary
They also have a pendant that says, "Nothing is worth more than this day." - an excellent reminder for all of us.
Thanks, guys. ~M&M
| QUOTE |
| thought he'd be a live-fast-die-young kind of guy, and if he knew he was going to live this long he'd have taken better care of himself. |
I just noticed this, too. Jackie Gleason, although he probably didn't create the phrase, used to say it regularly. It also was one of my favorites. False bravado in the face of certain death--remember a film titled, "Laugh At The Devil?" I was one tough talking mo-fo, but death wouldn't come like I expected--and the pain of slowly dying by drinking was too much for this puss-assed fully "functioning" alcoholic--so I couldn't even do THAT right!
It was 'suggested' by me that maybe I talk to someone I didn't know, but that I 'knew of,' before getting all hasty-wasty with the AA s***. The guy I had lunch with on a Sunday after a 3-day bender was someone whom I sort-of respected, but not so much that I had to ever see him again (I was good at writing off threats to my immortal lifestyle when necessary). No pressure, no push. Attraction rather than promotion. He simply told me what he was like, what a meeting was like, and what his life was like then.
I 'decided' to allow myself to check one out that following Tuesday--almost chickened out except I wasn't going to let that f***er beat me, so I showed up. He didn't. b******. I've gone every day since then and I haven't found it necessary to have a drink. And you've seen virtually every one of those days--and the bad ones were far better than any previous ones--I've read the posts!
Help him to help himself--allow him to be successful in a manly sort of way. It may not work but likely inside his head he's wondering what the heck happened because, as I've said to Martin, "Once you know, you can't un-know, you know?"
He deserves a shot at Hope. Tell him there are plenty of testicles there.... AND a$$ holes...
Hi First when I went to meet with my sponsor I was really embarressed about having anything to do with AA. It was like ,I wasn't like those people you know,they were the ones in the gutter drinking out of paper bags etc.I wasn't like that. yeah right! Here I was in my sponsors car shaking like a leaf on a tree because I needed a drink. Anyway I am rambling here but the story I wanted to share was that my sponsor told me that day of a friend of his who was an alcholic. He would come home from the bars so drunk trying to get up the street to his house and all the neigbours be watching him and talking about him. Then at home he would be fighting with his wife and fights that cops had to come to and well you get the pic. It was suggested to him to attend AA but he would have nothing to do with AA because he said he would be too embarressed for people to know he was a member. Here was this guy who would rather have people talk about him for being drunk than to be a AA member. The man is no longer alive. One night in despair he took a gun and shot himself to death. AA for me is totally different than what I had thought and believed it was.Let this person in your family know that AA is a fellowship not the bottom of the pit but the first step out of it when you make contact with them. Good luck to you and your family. God bless and take care.
In MY incredibly astute, intellectual, multi-functional alcoholic brain, going to an Open AA meeting was far less committal than going to a 'closed' meeting. My thoughts were that the 'closed' ones were for the real alcoholics and they'd judge me and find me suitable for committment, and THEN I'd be unable to leave! Going to an 'open' meeting meant that I'd meet alot of other family and friends of alcoholics that were just there on a 'day trip' like going to the zoo. Plus I could leave if they told me I could never drink again.
When the purple haze started to life I was able to see that EVERYONE knew I was a drunk and an alcoholic--but me. At least, they had their suspicions BUT because I was such a nice guy nobody bothered to say anything, or say something like, "Well, it's not affecting ME, so you do what you want to do." Permission! WooHooo! I even went to my doctor and asked for some liver function tests to see if anything was wrong. Nope. WoooHooo! Permission! I was BORN to do this!
I've posted before about being sick and tired of being sick and tired and somewhere there's a list of the physical ailments I had--real and imagined--that I couldn't seem to rid myself of. Burning, jaundiced eyes all the time? Stomach acid and bile in my throat constantly? Foul breath? There's a list of reasons and I'm sure everyone could add to them. Oddly, all my complaints and ailments (except for getting old) have vanished. My cholesterol's sky-high, but that's a genetic thing. I haven't even had to take an aspirin in nearly 6 months.
Anyway, this is turning into a drunk-a-log. M&M, If someone he looked up to, either in stature or career, had a talk with him--or even made himself available should he like to talk, the seed would be planted that even the best alcoholic could recover. And save money doing it.
When the purple haze started to life I was able to see that EVERYONE knew I was a drunk and an alcoholic--but me. At least, they had their suspicions BUT because I was such a nice guy nobody bothered to say anything, or say something like, "Well, it's not affecting ME, so you do what you want to do." Permission! WooHooo! I even went to my doctor and asked for some liver function tests to see if anything was wrong. Nope. WoooHooo! Permission! I was BORN to do this!
I've posted before about being sick and tired of being sick and tired and somewhere there's a list of the physical ailments I had--real and imagined--that I couldn't seem to rid myself of. Burning, jaundiced eyes all the time? Stomach acid and bile in my throat constantly? Foul breath? There's a list of reasons and I'm sure everyone could add to them. Oddly, all my complaints and ailments (except for getting old) have vanished. My cholesterol's sky-high, but that's a genetic thing. I haven't even had to take an aspirin in nearly 6 months.
Anyway, this is turning into a drunk-a-log. M&M, If someone he looked up to, either in stature or career, had a talk with him--or even made himself available should he like to talk, the seed would be planted that even the best alcoholic could recover. And save money doing it.
Sadly he understands the fellowship having participated fully in it while in rehab - he actually enjoyed it, but the bottle got the best of him after four sober months. I fear for his bottom - it won't be pretty and will most likely result in his death =(
skg - funny you should mention The Great One - my dad is EXACTLY like Gleason in all respects...sounds like him, acts like him, has his same twisted brialliance and ego...people used to comment on it all the time when we were growing up and I'm certain that's where he got that from. I remember writing him a letter the year I was graduating from high school begging him to stop his self-destruction, but naturally I tore it up and cried all night instead. My dad's time is nearly up...preparing to shed his mortal coil and all that, but my cousin's husband should have many years in front of him. I hope he sees more than his current prognosis predicts.
Thanks to all for your comments and support. It's nice to know you all and share in your struggles and successes.
Peace~MomNMore
skg - funny you should mention The Great One - my dad is EXACTLY like Gleason in all respects...sounds like him, acts like him, has his same twisted brialliance and ego...people used to comment on it all the time when we were growing up and I'm certain that's where he got that from. I remember writing him a letter the year I was graduating from high school begging him to stop his self-destruction, but naturally I tore it up and cried all night instead. My dad's time is nearly up...preparing to shed his mortal coil and all that, but my cousin's husband should have many years in front of him. I hope he sees more than his current prognosis predicts.
Thanks to all for your comments and support. It's nice to know you all and share in your struggles and successes.
Peace~MomNMore
Mom-N-More,
Well, at the end of the day, you know that eventually we have to learn to step over the bodies. It's a selfish program--yet another dichotomy that I've learned--but I can't accept responsibility for others' decisions. I tried that. It put me here... If I don't put sobriety first, it won't last.
He knows, if he's been through the "drool school," that there is a solution and he can have it if he wants. There's always another bottom--as you know. There's even one while in the basement.
Stay strong. That they can share with you is a start.
Well, at the end of the day, you know that eventually we have to learn to step over the bodies. It's a selfish program--yet another dichotomy that I've learned--but I can't accept responsibility for others' decisions. I tried that. It put me here... If I don't put sobriety first, it won't last.
He knows, if he's been through the "drool school," that there is a solution and he can have it if he wants. There's always another bottom--as you know. There's even one while in the basement.
Stay strong. That they can share with you is a start.
Gidday MomNMore
Have your cousins kids and her gone to Alanon and can you get to an Alanon meeting as a way of talking out so much of what you are holding in, i know you can do that at an AA meeting it just that sometimes an Alanon meeting is better for that part of you that aches:)
My Dad was defiant right to the end and died an active alky, i know the struggle of love that journey has.
Your Cousins husband may start to see the way once more seeds are planted in his mind by a family actively seeking peace of mind via Alanon and starting to openly talk with him about the feelings they keep in.
As i was typing i was thinking when i was drinking how easy it was for me to show hate and resentment and how hard it was to show love and care, now i am sober as long as i am there for anyone who is suffering i know that the chance and choice may be there for a shot at recovery for them....the seed has been planted in him about recovery and given light and love maybe it will grow
light and love Zac
Have your cousins kids and her gone to Alanon and can you get to an Alanon meeting as a way of talking out so much of what you are holding in, i know you can do that at an AA meeting it just that sometimes an Alanon meeting is better for that part of you that aches:)
My Dad was defiant right to the end and died an active alky, i know the struggle of love that journey has.
Your Cousins husband may start to see the way once more seeds are planted in his mind by a family actively seeking peace of mind via Alanon and starting to openly talk with him about the feelings they keep in.
As i was typing i was thinking when i was drinking how easy it was for me to show hate and resentment and how hard it was to show love and care, now i am sober as long as i am there for anyone who is suffering i know that the chance and choice may be there for a shot at recovery for them....the seed has been planted in him about recovery and given light and love maybe it will grow
light and love Zac
Hi MomNMore, Just wanted to say hi and let ya know I will be lifting you and your family up in prayer....I hate this disease, but I am also a grateful alcoholic! I know you will, and the others here, will know what I mean by that! Take care, Geri
MomNmore that's so sad. I hope and pray things change for you all.
This thread is sad in so many ways, and yet is also wonderful testament to hope. I am grateful to all the posters.
Martin
This thread is sad in so many ways, and yet is also wonderful testament to hope. I am grateful to all the posters.
Martin
Zac and all ~
It's true, the seed is there and may grow ~ where there's life, there's hope. I am grateful that I have the type of extended family where we do share what's on our individual and collective minds, whether you want to hear it or not. For my cousin's family...I don't know if they attend or not, but I am most definitely going ask her and suggest it if they're not. I'd be willing to drive out there and go with her on a weekend - good for both of us.
I have been thinking about Alanon simply because my daughter has moved back home and even though she's clean and all, I know how easy it is for ME to slip into my old patterns. Caught myself taking her inventory a few times already and she's only been home since Saturday.
Geri, it's so good to see you, and I thank you for your prayers. I am totally feelin' the love here =)
~MomNMore
It's true, the seed is there and may grow ~ where there's life, there's hope. I am grateful that I have the type of extended family where we do share what's on our individual and collective minds, whether you want to hear it or not. For my cousin's family...I don't know if they attend or not, but I am most definitely going ask her and suggest it if they're not. I'd be willing to drive out there and go with her on a weekend - good for both of us.
I have been thinking about Alanon simply because my daughter has moved back home and even though she's clean and all, I know how easy it is for ME to slip into my old patterns. Caught myself taking her inventory a few times already and she's only been home since Saturday.
Geri, it's so good to see you, and I thank you for your prayers. I am totally feelin' the love here =)
~MomNMore
My Mom always told me I could do anything if I really wanted to and just made up my mind to do it. I hope they find something within themselves to see they are worth it. Sometimes peoples children can be a good beginning motivator. Then miraculously the love starts to be shared with self.
The right recipe of love and believing in someone until they learn to believe in them selves is needed. Then there are those kick in the butt days people need to, in mho. Finding out what motivates a person to change bad and self harming behaviors to healthy and loving ones. I've found it to be quite conducive in my recovery journey.
I to will say prayers for your loved ones. I don't want to see anyone else be lost to addiction. Because in the end so many people lose.
Take Care,
Chris
The right recipe of love and believing in someone until they learn to believe in them selves is needed. Then there are those kick in the butt days people need to, in mho. Finding out what motivates a person to change bad and self harming behaviors to healthy and loving ones. I've found it to be quite conducive in my recovery journey.
I to will say prayers for your loved ones. I don't want to see anyone else be lost to addiction. Because in the end so many people lose.
Take Care,
Chris
