Hi,
Seems to me people are trying to cut a corner they will have to turn anyway.
I'd bet most people here are looking into it for the wrong reasons. I guess there are some that sub. is the only way for, but I can't believe how resistant most everyone is to a program that works but also requires work and it's those same people that jump at the idea of a pill working instead! From what I've read, by the time you get a doctor, figure out your doses and get started, you could already be through the worst part of withdraw and on your way in recovery without the use of anything exept your willingness to do so.
I've noticed that as soon as people start thinking that there is a way around withdraw, all the sudden people start relapsing and start saying, "I'm going on sub"! It's like a get out of jail free card! I can use and get around withdraw! I hope and pray that you all really think about what your doing, from what I see here I think alot of you are in trouble, I hope I'm wrong, I'm sorry I just had to say how I felt, hope nobody is too pissed, but, sittin' where I am it looks pretty bad.
Take care.....................................God bless....................................Bob
oh.. never mind... i will give my fingers a break..... i will stop now..and say a little prayer for their recovery bob and for there bank accounts... seems like most couldnt afford counseling or rehab... but can this drug... but...
how you are well...
Tersea
how you are well...
Tersea
Hi teresa,
yeah I'm well, I never had it so good..
Take care.................God bless...................Bob
yeah I'm well, I never had it so good..
Take care.................God bless...................Bob
I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about sub. but I gotta agree with Bob; The expense alone is enough to just deal with the physical withdrawls.
From what I understand it is just something to help you get thru w/d's? If thats the case, why not just taper on what your currently abusing? If theres a way to abuse sub, I'd find it.
I tried methadone a few months back. Had like 30 of them and decided to to use that to get off the percs. But I liked the methadone too much to stick to a plan.
Whoever said methadone doesn't get you high is high.
From what I understand it is just something to help you get thru w/d's? If thats the case, why not just taper on what your currently abusing? If theres a way to abuse sub, I'd find it.
I tried methadone a few months back. Had like 30 of them and decided to to use that to get off the percs. But I liked the methadone too much to stick to a plan.
Whoever said methadone doesn't get you high is high.
Well,
I read where one withdraws from sub. too! So, whats the point?.........Bob
I read where one withdraws from sub. too! So, whats the point?.........Bob
To me, pills to get off of pills is like paper training a dog. I never beleived in paper training because ultimately, you want the dog to go outside, so why put papers by the door only to retrain it to take a few more steps to go outside?
Good posts! thx guys!
Just my opinion, but to be blunt, it's a legal high period. No addict that isn't yet ready to get clean will ever truley admit that until it's time.............Bob
Bob, have you taken the sub? I have and didnt get high. It also has a celing effect and you just get sick the more you take. We can beat this subject to death and we all know where you stand seeing how you post how you feel every other day.
You just dont seem to understand everyones different, for some people sub can get them on their way, some may not use it as intended and thats a shame.
We've seemed to agree that if even if sub is used a program to stay clean and sober is needed and most here on sub are doing that.
As for you and Theresa, I dont think you two give yourselves enough credit. If the only reason someone doesnt use is to avoid withdrawals then your in trouble, there has to be more to being sober than just avoiding dope sickness.
Whats to stop you from picking up now if you yourself can take sub to avoid being sick, theres more to it an there should be, so give yourselves some credit.
JohnDee
You just dont seem to understand everyones different, for some people sub can get them on their way, some may not use it as intended and thats a shame.
We've seemed to agree that if even if sub is used a program to stay clean and sober is needed and most here on sub are doing that.
As for you and Theresa, I dont think you two give yourselves enough credit. If the only reason someone doesnt use is to avoid withdrawals then your in trouble, there has to be more to being sober than just avoiding dope sickness.
Whats to stop you from picking up now if you yourself can take sub to avoid being sick, theres more to it an there should be, so give yourselves some credit.
JohnDee
thanks jd
i have never taken sub myself, however i am one that believes "to each his own". as john said we all know how bob feels about the subject of sub use and i have to agree with bob to a certain extent, but it is not to say that everyone on sub will fail. it is how you work your own program whether it is c/t and AA, or sub and AA or anything for that matter. i know some people that have tried AA and it didn't work for them because they refused to do it as directed. well the same with sub. i believe it will fail if you don't do it as directed, but if you do it as directed who are we or anybody else to say it will fail. i would ask that you please encourage those on sub to do it as directed and then get into a good program and continue to encourage them to make it no matter how you feel on the subject of sub use. instead of coming on everyday and telling them they are destined to fail at this just because it wasn't your way. i pray this doesn't make anyone upset it is just my opinion. so please let's all encourage everyone no matter what program they choose for at least they have chosen to try to get off this merry go round of hell
thanks to all
johnny
i have never taken sub myself, however i am one that believes "to each his own". as john said we all know how bob feels about the subject of sub use and i have to agree with bob to a certain extent, but it is not to say that everyone on sub will fail. it is how you work your own program whether it is c/t and AA, or sub and AA or anything for that matter. i know some people that have tried AA and it didn't work for them because they refused to do it as directed. well the same with sub. i believe it will fail if you don't do it as directed, but if you do it as directed who are we or anybody else to say it will fail. i would ask that you please encourage those on sub to do it as directed and then get into a good program and continue to encourage them to make it no matter how you feel on the subject of sub use. instead of coming on everyday and telling them they are destined to fail at this just because it wasn't your way. i pray this doesn't make anyone upset it is just my opinion. so please let's all encourage everyone no matter what program they choose for at least they have chosen to try to get off this merry go round of hell
thanks to all
johnny
Johnny,
No offense, but this is exactly how fights start. Nobody said anyone on sub was "destined to fail" and nobody said that its only "their way that works".
The whole point is a pill to replace a pill. If you can use sub as directed, then why not just use your doc and taper? I mean I can't use rx's as directed, otherwise, I'd not be an addict. So why would someone use the sub as directed when clearly they can't take pills as directed?
No offense, but this is exactly how fights start. Nobody said anyone on sub was "destined to fail" and nobody said that its only "their way that works".
The whole point is a pill to replace a pill. If you can use sub as directed, then why not just use your doc and taper? I mean I can't use rx's as directed, otherwise, I'd not be an addict. So why would someone use the sub as directed when clearly they can't take pills as directed?
all I know (or think I should say) is that someone's making big bucks off this drug
hi as I have said for me its my last option.I also have the pain issue to deal with.I knowm everyone is different but the 1 8mg of sub helps not only WD from the ultram but it helps with the pain of chrons.My Md may just keep me on it for that reason.Has anyone discussed this use of sub for pain issues????mj
Briar, some people can maybe you cant but some can, I did. Im clean and sober from sub. Tapering for some people is hard because it hurts, sub takes that away, big difference. Thats why a lot of people fail on tapering or CT.
I think the fights start from people disrespecting other peoples methods. Were all here to get clean and sober and we should all support each other.
You dont have to agree on using sub bacause maybe its not for you, but to knock other people for using it is disrespectful.
I have a lot of respect for people who tapered, Ct or used sub and support them all in their recovery. Is it too much to ask that we support the sub users as well.
JohnDee
I think the fights start from people disrespecting other peoples methods. Were all here to get clean and sober and we should all support each other.
You dont have to agree on using sub bacause maybe its not for you, but to knock other people for using it is disrespectful.
I have a lot of respect for people who tapered, Ct or used sub and support them all in their recovery. Is it too much to ask that we support the sub users as well.
JohnDee
thank you briar for the correction and again i didn't want to hurt anyones feeling i just wanted to say i guess we should all encourage others no matter what option they take hope this post finds you well and i pray you have a great day. and again i do appologize if it was said the wrong way i am not to eloquent with the english language
thank you for all you do
johnny
thank you for all you do
johnny
Someone mentioned earilier ( I think they were for not going the bup way) about how long AA and NA have been around and might have made reference to how sucessful the program is. I will be going to some meetings before I start bup and will continue after Im on it . With no disrespect intended as I have been in and out of those rooms for 20 years they ( The headquarters of AA)used to keep tract of their sucess rate and stoped ( I think about 20 years ago ) but you long timers would no better than me , but when they stopped keeping tract the rate of long term sobriety which was marked at the 1, 3 and 5 year marks I believe was only less than 10 % IF that many of people who stayed clean for AA's first tracking time period and it fell off accordingly as the time period went up. Ive seen it and done it myself. Ive also seen many AA members who have a lot of 'CLEAN" time take tranq;s like valium etc . My point is that any means that one can use to stay off narcotics that get you high (as some will say correctly that bup is a narcotic) and learn to live a life free of mind altering drugs and learn to cope with life Im for . Bup seems to give people who also work some kind of program the best chance of reaching long term sobriety. Im actually going to TRY to detox my self completly if not to the very edge before even going on bup. Also bup might seem a NEW drug to us in the US but it,s been around for over 20 years or so and used overseas. Again Im not knocking AA at all or the other 12 step programs as I think they play a vital role for most. But if you have been around as long as I have , and I know most of you have you will notice that the majority only stay clean for short periodsof time. Im just trying to increase the odds that are against us all. Best wishes Ray
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Hi,
I read Bob's post and no where did i read that he said everyone on sub will fail nor do I see where every other day does he say anything about it. I have noticed myself that it seems like from the postings here...that its almost like everyone is saying....its ok if i relapse ill just go on sub. I dont believe it should be the first option...not at all...but that is just my opinion. And I also dont think this thread was started to stir anything. Noone is saying if you dont do AA/NA your way is wrong....why is it that when someone in AA/NA voices there opinion that everyone takes it that way? I believe whatever way works for you then do it. But I dont believe taking another pill for the rest of your life is the answer. But like I said this is just MY opinion. take what you need and leave the rest. I truley hope everyone makes it. God bless you all.
gina :)
ps. I also dont believe anyone is saying they are better than anyone else...
I read Bob's post and no where did i read that he said everyone on sub will fail nor do I see where every other day does he say anything about it. I have noticed myself that it seems like from the postings here...that its almost like everyone is saying....its ok if i relapse ill just go on sub. I dont believe it should be the first option...not at all...but that is just my opinion. And I also dont think this thread was started to stir anything. Noone is saying if you dont do AA/NA your way is wrong....why is it that when someone in AA/NA voices there opinion that everyone takes it that way? I believe whatever way works for you then do it. But I dont believe taking another pill for the rest of your life is the answer. But like I said this is just MY opinion. take what you need and leave the rest. I truley hope everyone makes it. God bless you all.
gina :)
ps. I also dont believe anyone is saying they are better than anyone else...
JD,
I'm glad it worked for you, I really am.
But I think we do support each other on here, and I don't see where to question something you don't understand is disrespectful, its an opinion is all.
And we all have 'em.
Briar
I'm glad it worked for you, I really am.
But I think we do support each other on here, and I don't see where to question something you don't understand is disrespectful, its an opinion is all.
And we all have 'em.
Briar
here we have at least one and i have read others that have a good record for sub. thanks john dee for your replies and you willingness to let us all know that there is more than one way to skin a cat
thanks
johnny
thanks
johnny
Johnny,
Thank you for taking my reply to you in the manner that it was intended. I do beleive that you'd be one of the last people on here to start anything. Your too sweet.
Love,
Briar
Thank you for taking my reply to you in the manner that it was intended. I do beleive that you'd be one of the last people on here to start anything. Your too sweet.
Love,
Briar
