(((((((((((((((((((((((IIh)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
saying a prayer for you right NOW..........
thumper
dear llh
i wrote you this long post this morning and i accidentally hit a button on the key board with my pinky and it went poof! out into cyberspace somewhere. i HATE when that happens especially when it was a long post, i had to go to work so i didnt get to rewrite it so i am here tonite to offer you some help too.
i am a vicodin addict, clean for 6 mos with the help of suboxone.
my mom was addicted to oxy's and i was in rehab with a guy named tony who was addicted to oxy's.
being in a rehab facility 2 times and seeing alot of addicts, i want to say that the people withdrawing from oxy's suffered! believe me i
have suffered with vicodin withdrawals that i thought was the worse h*ll anyone could ever go thru, but after seeing tony....
he sweated profusely, cried out in agony, rolled around in the grass where we were allowed to smoke, couldnt sleep AT ALL, despite the valium they gave him. his eyes were so sunken with dark circles, he reminded me of alice cooper! by then i was feeling pretty good, i was there 16 days, so i felt the need to "mother" this poor young man. he said he was an atheist, i a christian said to him that is half of your suffering right there and i told him i would pray for him and he said would you? even though he doesnt believe! i remember the nurses telling him to take 3 baths a day when he was in misery,told him to soak, relax.... as the days passed he would SLOWLY improve and he left the facility healthy looking and smiling! oxy abuse is bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vicodin abuse is bad also and the withdrawals were no picnic believe me,
my first rehab didnt work and i relapsed, the 2nd time it worked with the help of suboxone.
i can tell you that AWFUL fatigue is normal, i could barely walk, and that was when i was released and had to report every morning for IOP classes 5 days a week at 8:30 am, i felt like i needed to crawl from the car to the building where the classes were held i couldnt even bend over to refill my dogs water bowls, i was sooo sick and fatigued!
that is when the doctor prescribed provigil for the fatigue,and yes depression comes with it too and i think this is the most critical time for an anti depressant to be prescribed.
on the other post i lost to you i told you how to taper off the ativan, but i see you were helped by a nurse here on the board.
the ativan is not depressing you,it is a wonderful SHORT term medication to help with anxiety that comes with withdrawal and also it helps with insomnia that can occur too. i know becuase i suffer from panic anxiety disorder, i have taken many benzo's (benzodiazepam) before and i never abused benzo's but i have heard that benzo withdrawals are really tough too, but you have to take them more than short term to suffer withdrawals that are that bad.
so llh, try to relax and not worry, take the ativan as doctor as directed until you are over the anxiety that occurs in early detox, rest, take off work, no employer can fire you for being sick, this is no different than having heart disease, diabetes etc.addiction is a disease too. and 12 days is wonderful but still kinda early to be over all the symptoms. rest and support from family is important. exercise in small increments, good sleep, water and nutrition.
i would ask your doctor for an antidepressant and ask if you could be helped by taking suboxone which curbs cravings.
now your next step is this: (after you feel better) its not just qutting pills as the answer to treat this disease. you are gonna need education and support and i highly recommend that you start researching on line Narcotics anonymous (NA) type in www.na.org it will direct you. otherwise relapse is a threat to you again and you dont want to have to go thru this again right?
it will require you to attend NA meetings in your area, and getting a sponsor and begin to start working the 12 steps of recovery living which helps addicts understand how to change their "stinkin thinkin" and learn how to change ourselves so that we can learn how to live life correctly so that we dont need to use drugs to numb our pain or alter our moods. good luck, your are to be commended for what you have accomplished! julie/jewels
i wrote you this long post this morning and i accidentally hit a button on the key board with my pinky and it went poof! out into cyberspace somewhere. i HATE when that happens especially when it was a long post, i had to go to work so i didnt get to rewrite it so i am here tonite to offer you some help too.
i am a vicodin addict, clean for 6 mos with the help of suboxone.
my mom was addicted to oxy's and i was in rehab with a guy named tony who was addicted to oxy's.
being in a rehab facility 2 times and seeing alot of addicts, i want to say that the people withdrawing from oxy's suffered! believe me i
have suffered with vicodin withdrawals that i thought was the worse h*ll anyone could ever go thru, but after seeing tony....
he sweated profusely, cried out in agony, rolled around in the grass where we were allowed to smoke, couldnt sleep AT ALL, despite the valium they gave him. his eyes were so sunken with dark circles, he reminded me of alice cooper! by then i was feeling pretty good, i was there 16 days, so i felt the need to "mother" this poor young man. he said he was an atheist, i a christian said to him that is half of your suffering right there and i told him i would pray for him and he said would you? even though he doesnt believe! i remember the nurses telling him to take 3 baths a day when he was in misery,told him to soak, relax.... as the days passed he would SLOWLY improve and he left the facility healthy looking and smiling! oxy abuse is bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vicodin abuse is bad also and the withdrawals were no picnic believe me,
my first rehab didnt work and i relapsed, the 2nd time it worked with the help of suboxone.
i can tell you that AWFUL fatigue is normal, i could barely walk, and that was when i was released and had to report every morning for IOP classes 5 days a week at 8:30 am, i felt like i needed to crawl from the car to the building where the classes were held i couldnt even bend over to refill my dogs water bowls, i was sooo sick and fatigued!
that is when the doctor prescribed provigil for the fatigue,and yes depression comes with it too and i think this is the most critical time for an anti depressant to be prescribed.
on the other post i lost to you i told you how to taper off the ativan, but i see you were helped by a nurse here on the board.
the ativan is not depressing you,it is a wonderful SHORT term medication to help with anxiety that comes with withdrawal and also it helps with insomnia that can occur too. i know becuase i suffer from panic anxiety disorder, i have taken many benzo's (benzodiazepam) before and i never abused benzo's but i have heard that benzo withdrawals are really tough too, but you have to take them more than short term to suffer withdrawals that are that bad.
so llh, try to relax and not worry, take the ativan as doctor as directed until you are over the anxiety that occurs in early detox, rest, take off work, no employer can fire you for being sick, this is no different than having heart disease, diabetes etc.addiction is a disease too. and 12 days is wonderful but still kinda early to be over all the symptoms. rest and support from family is important. exercise in small increments, good sleep, water and nutrition.
i would ask your doctor for an antidepressant and ask if you could be helped by taking suboxone which curbs cravings.
now your next step is this: (after you feel better) its not just qutting pills as the answer to treat this disease. you are gonna need education and support and i highly recommend that you start researching on line Narcotics anonymous (NA) type in www.na.org it will direct you. otherwise relapse is a threat to you again and you dont want to have to go thru this again right?
it will require you to attend NA meetings in your area, and getting a sponsor and begin to start working the 12 steps of recovery living which helps addicts understand how to change their "stinkin thinkin" and learn how to change ourselves so that we can learn how to live life correctly so that we dont need to use drugs to numb our pain or alter our moods. good luck, your are to be commended for what you have accomplished! julie/jewels
Hi IIh,
I'm so glad you are hanging in there... you are doing amazing...
I wholeheartedly agree with Ali when she says (or something like this) you just need to give yourself a break. Believe me, I know about anxiety (I have had an anxiety disorder since I was little) and it's so destructive - the worry and the obesssing and how paralyzing it can be.
You're doing the best you can right now. Your body is going through so many changes right now, and you should really be proud of yourself for just getting through these past 12 days. The rest will come in time. Just give yourself a minute to breathe and be a little bit at peace with all of the great work you are doing to make yourself better.
You are going to be depressed for awhile... You're going to fdeel like crap... but the end result is going to be a good one. Have faith, especially in yourself.
Also, if you are really worried about the effects of the ativan, just take about 10 days to ween off of it, slowly going down .5mg after about every 3 days. You could probably just stop taking it, but if you are really nervous about "withdrawing" from it, then just go slow. It's possible that it is having some depresive side effects, but my guess is that it's all of the changes your body and mind are working through.
You are doing great. Don't forget that...
SP
I'm so glad you are hanging in there... you are doing amazing...
I wholeheartedly agree with Ali when she says (or something like this) you just need to give yourself a break. Believe me, I know about anxiety (I have had an anxiety disorder since I was little) and it's so destructive - the worry and the obesssing and how paralyzing it can be.
You're doing the best you can right now. Your body is going through so many changes right now, and you should really be proud of yourself for just getting through these past 12 days. The rest will come in time. Just give yourself a minute to breathe and be a little bit at peace with all of the great work you are doing to make yourself better.
You are going to be depressed for awhile... You're going to fdeel like crap... but the end result is going to be a good one. Have faith, especially in yourself.
Also, if you are really worried about the effects of the ativan, just take about 10 days to ween off of it, slowly going down .5mg after about every 3 days. You could probably just stop taking it, but if you are really nervous about "withdrawing" from it, then just go slow. It's possible that it is having some depresive side effects, but my guess is that it's all of the changes your body and mind are working through.
You are doing great. Don't forget that...
SP
thanks for all the posts, all of you. I appreciate the advice on the ativan. I only took 1 mg last night and didn't sleep much at all. i looked at the clock every hour durning the night. Does anyone take ambien.....that isn't a narcotic right? Also I have taken a low dose of prozac(anti depressent) every other day for years for pms symptoms. I wonder if upping the dose a little would help with this. I find it interesting that there could be a difference between vicodan and oxy. Several years ago I had to taper off vicodan and It was bad but nothing like this. I'd say 2-4 days. I guess that wasn't enough of a deterent, so god let me have it this time insuring I will learn my lesson. I just hope I live through it. I'm still having gastro-intestinal symptoms. It makes sense to me that If I had been messing with my brain chemistry for a while... then It is going to take a while to straighten back out. Will I know when I am ready to get back to work, etc? Or do I just have to do it. I feel so vunerable and sad, the depression is the worst right now, and not sleeping didn't help. L
hi again
Great advice above...we dont have that sleeping pill in Canada but we have something called zopiclone which is Non narcotic and works like a charm..if your on it for long term, and stop, you just cant sleep for a night or two then get back into sleeping normally again..but thats if you use it for 4-6 months kind of long term....short term, even for several weeks..its a great help ( you need to have at least 7 hours to devote to sleep though or you'll be tired..dont take it if you only have 4 or 5 hours to sleep...
The thing that i think Jewels mentioned above is true, once this is behind you you need to figure out why you wanted to numb your feelings so much..if you were using for emotional needs, you have to go back and dig down to figure that all out and let it go..otherwise the anxiety of suppressed emotional baggage will continue to manifest ; come to the surface; which may make you want to use again..
You can try NA as jewels suggested, or therapy...its a personal choice....but both are good alternatives to get to the root of why you used...
Hope that helps
Hugs
Ali
Great advice above...we dont have that sleeping pill in Canada but we have something called zopiclone which is Non narcotic and works like a charm..if your on it for long term, and stop, you just cant sleep for a night or two then get back into sleeping normally again..but thats if you use it for 4-6 months kind of long term....short term, even for several weeks..its a great help ( you need to have at least 7 hours to devote to sleep though or you'll be tired..dont take it if you only have 4 or 5 hours to sleep...
The thing that i think Jewels mentioned above is true, once this is behind you you need to figure out why you wanted to numb your feelings so much..if you were using for emotional needs, you have to go back and dig down to figure that all out and let it go..otherwise the anxiety of suppressed emotional baggage will continue to manifest ; come to the surface; which may make you want to use again..
You can try NA as jewels suggested, or therapy...its a personal choice....but both are good alternatives to get to the root of why you used...
Hope that helps
Hugs
Ali
IIH, If you can please stay away from the Ambien. My doctor prescribed it to me for RLS and it is some dangerous s*** and very addictive. Becoming addicted to Ambien was just as bad as being addicted to Oxys. Please don't even consider it. Shantel
Shantell,
did you take it like it was prescribed and got addicted? Or do people abuse it like pills?
did you take it like it was prescribed and got addicted? Or do people abuse it like pills?
If used short term and as prescribed, do not get more than needed you will be fine. The key is not to abuse.
Most drugs have the risk of becoming dependent on them. So if you use them, use them to get you over the hump only.
I would suggest Trazodone, which is an older antidepressant that doctors use for sleep. In my opinion it works better than ambien. And it is non addictive, no chance of dependency, meaning no WD when you stop taking it.
or get otc herbs
http://www.1001herbs.com/valerian/
Most drugs have the risk of becoming dependent on them. So if you use them, use them to get you over the hump only.
I would suggest Trazodone, which is an older antidepressant that doctors use for sleep. In my opinion it works better than ambien. And it is non addictive, no chance of dependency, meaning no WD when you stop taking it.
or get otc herbs
http://www.1001herbs.com/valerian/
When I first started out on Ambien I was prescribed 1 10 mg. pill a night. They come either in 5mgs or 10. I took them as prescribed at first but even when I took them as prescribed I did crazy stuff during the night. Then after months of taking them I started abusing them and it was not a pretty sight. I was taking them along with Oxys and I am lucky to be alive today. IMO say far away from them. Shantel
I don't understand how someone would abuse ambien, doesn't it just make you go to sleep?
After I got off Ambien I started taking melatonion (sp) a sleep aid from GNC. Works well for me. Good luck. Shantel
IIH, Trust me. Ambien along with Oxys is not a good combination. It brought me to my knees. It's hard to explain. If I was running low on Oxys I would pop a couple of Ambiens during the day along with an Oxy and I was in my own little world. Actually, I should be thankful because the events that happened on a certain day while I was abusing both pills called for an intervention from my family and for that I am thankful. Shantel
i have both ambien cr and trazodone and after hearing the horror stories on this board about ambien cr and the true fact that is addictive i stopped using the ambien. i only use trazodone as needed now because i have been trying to quit sleep meds all together. so believe everyone when they say you dont even want to go down the ambien cr road, it has made me forget what i did when i fell asleep and i dont remember how i got to the bed!!! julie
IIh,
Are you seeing a doctor or a psychiatrist right now? Is there anyone helping monitor (like, regularly) what's going on? Because basically what needs to happen , I think, is that you need to see one person, lay it all out on the table, and figure out what the best course of action is. Flipping from med to med or being on a bunch of different meds probably isn't a good idea right now and working with someone who really knows their stuff (like an addiction psychiatrist), even if it's just a for a few visits, will help you sort out some of these medication issues.
Everyone on this board can give you a million different medications they've taken and reactions they have had, which is great, but it's a ton of information from a bunch of different sources, and it can be really hard to process, especially if you are in the middle of a difficult withdrawal. Does that make sense?
I just think it's really really really really important that you are working with someone medical who you trust, who knows everything about what's going on, and who is providing you with at least one source of reliable information (I'm not saying that all of us posting in this place isn't reliable or provides some great information, but we aren't specialists in "that" way :) ).
I just want you to be safe as you go through this.
SP
Are you seeing a doctor or a psychiatrist right now? Is there anyone helping monitor (like, regularly) what's going on? Because basically what needs to happen , I think, is that you need to see one person, lay it all out on the table, and figure out what the best course of action is. Flipping from med to med or being on a bunch of different meds probably isn't a good idea right now and working with someone who really knows their stuff (like an addiction psychiatrist), even if it's just a for a few visits, will help you sort out some of these medication issues.
Everyone on this board can give you a million different medications they've taken and reactions they have had, which is great, but it's a ton of information from a bunch of different sources, and it can be really hard to process, especially if you are in the middle of a difficult withdrawal. Does that make sense?
I just think it's really really really really important that you are working with someone medical who you trust, who knows everything about what's going on, and who is providing you with at least one source of reliable information (I'm not saying that all of us posting in this place isn't reliable or provides some great information, but we aren't specialists in "that" way :) ).
I just want you to be safe as you go through this.
SP
llh:
Congrats on day 12!!! You're surprised that someone would use a drug to make you go to sleep??? I can totally see that. I'll go anywhere else in my head if im not comfortable in my own head. Y'know what I mean? I think I seriously have the potenetial to get addicted to ANYTHING.. I've taken ambien - never abused it (yet), and appreciate the warning about it. It's supposed to be so safe, but remember - that's what they thought about oxy! There is a prescription drug for sleep that shows promise for safety because it mimic's the natural meletonin in the brain. I don't remember the name but it started with an "R". Earlier someone said something about benzo's & panic disorder. I was on xanex when I was youger - they worked fine - then one day I decided they were a crutch. I abruptly stopped them and had grand mal seizures. The good news is the seziures seemed to rewire by brain so for several years, no panic attacks, no benzo's. When they came back though, they came back with a vengenece. I was so afraid of xanax that for a while I just suffered. It started to affect my career, I started to think of using - like, anything at all - for relief. I went to a specialist and was straight up about all my issues and they put me on tranxene (same family) 4 X day. I never abused them (much to even my own surprise). Have a healty respect for the benzo's is all I can say. That's what almost took me out - and that's the only one I never abused. Now, I'm on paxil - no benzo's at all. My point (and I do have one) is they can be really helpful short-term, or maybe even long-term as long as it's medically supervised and the person taking them needs to know what they're really dealing with.
Congrats on day 12!!! You're surprised that someone would use a drug to make you go to sleep??? I can totally see that. I'll go anywhere else in my head if im not comfortable in my own head. Y'know what I mean? I think I seriously have the potenetial to get addicted to ANYTHING.. I've taken ambien - never abused it (yet), and appreciate the warning about it. It's supposed to be so safe, but remember - that's what they thought about oxy! There is a prescription drug for sleep that shows promise for safety because it mimic's the natural meletonin in the brain. I don't remember the name but it started with an "R". Earlier someone said something about benzo's & panic disorder. I was on xanex when I was youger - they worked fine - then one day I decided they were a crutch. I abruptly stopped them and had grand mal seizures. The good news is the seziures seemed to rewire by brain so for several years, no panic attacks, no benzo's. When they came back though, they came back with a vengenece. I was so afraid of xanax that for a while I just suffered. It started to affect my career, I started to think of using - like, anything at all - for relief. I went to a specialist and was straight up about all my issues and they put me on tranxene (same family) 4 X day. I never abused them (much to even my own surprise). Have a healty respect for the benzo's is all I can say. That's what almost took me out - and that's the only one I never abused. Now, I'm on paxil - no benzo's at all. My point (and I do have one) is they can be really helpful short-term, or maybe even long-term as long as it's medically supervised and the person taking them needs to know what they're really dealing with.
Morning IIh...I am so happy for you making it this far! good for you! what you are accomplishing is no small task! Be proud of yourself and try not to think to far into the future..
I have detoxed off oxcy and percs many times...I would get very impatient and felt that I should be feeling much better than I was......this is dangerous times and started me thinking "what the hell....just one to take the edge off"
If you are having those thoughts and are impatient...try to relax and pray! Prayer helped me tremendously....the depression is the worst...if you can get something for that..do it...please..your mind will be playing tricks on you.
I have been rx'd ativan to detox...and I have to say it helped so much...I took it very short term perhaps no more than 10 days....I so felt as if I was becoming dependant on it. Just be very careful...I think short term its helpfull....as long as your are cognisant of that!
Good job...keep posting and talking about it....that helps alot!
I have detoxed off oxcy and percs many times...I would get very impatient and felt that I should be feeling much better than I was......this is dangerous times and started me thinking "what the hell....just one to take the edge off"
If you are having those thoughts and are impatient...try to relax and pray! Prayer helped me tremendously....the depression is the worst...if you can get something for that..do it...please..your mind will be playing tricks on you.
I have been rx'd ativan to detox...and I have to say it helped so much...I took it very short term perhaps no more than 10 days....I so felt as if I was becoming dependant on it. Just be very careful...I think short term its helpfull....as long as your are cognisant of that!
Good job...keep posting and talking about it....that helps alot!
Kee Kee,
How long before you felt really good. i haven't even considered blowing it, but I am so impatient with the way I feel. I think my hormones are really messed up. I should have started my period about 2 weeks ago at about the same time I stopped the pills but didn't, I just started this morning and feel awful. I wonder if that was making me even more moody yesterday. Can you tell me when you really noticed a difference in the way you felt? This is the 14th day for me.I am still feeling like I will throw up if I eat very much. I haven't for a couple of days, just feel like it all the time. Right now I am not to depressed... but that has been hitting in the afternoon with a vengence.
L
How long before you felt really good. i haven't even considered blowing it, but I am so impatient with the way I feel. I think my hormones are really messed up. I should have started my period about 2 weeks ago at about the same time I stopped the pills but didn't, I just started this morning and feel awful. I wonder if that was making me even more moody yesterday. Can you tell me when you really noticed a difference in the way you felt? This is the 14th day for me.I am still feeling like I will throw up if I eat very much. I haven't for a couple of days, just feel like it all the time. Right now I am not to depressed... but that has been hitting in the afternoon with a vengence.
L
ilh, i am not sure who said it on here, but it makes so much sense, it is the same thing my doctor has asked me before, they said to look back 10 days ago, then last week, then yesterday compared to today.
Keep a journal of this journey, what you ate, how much sleep, how you feel etc. then I really think when you go back and read it, you will see the slow progression.
There is no time line for when you will feel back to normal. Just go with it and be proud of how far along you have come, this is terrific.
The one time I did go Cold Turkey from Codeine Tylenol #3, I can tell you that at week two I started to turn the corner, at about 30 days, I was feeling pretty good.
I was on however, prozac, klonopin , and trazodone. This was short term, I did the prozac and trazodone for about 4 - 6 months, of course the klonopin was for 2 weeks only. You really don't need it after that, but all combined helped me tremendously.
As long as you communicate with your doctor your feelings, together with a plan you can whip this thing.
Do not get me wrong, the WD was hell on earth, as you well know. Just ride it out.
You have committed to this and I am in awe of how committed you have been.
You have inspired me with your confidence and commitment.
Keep a journal of this journey, what you ate, how much sleep, how you feel etc. then I really think when you go back and read it, you will see the slow progression.
There is no time line for when you will feel back to normal. Just go with it and be proud of how far along you have come, this is terrific.
The one time I did go Cold Turkey from Codeine Tylenol #3, I can tell you that at week two I started to turn the corner, at about 30 days, I was feeling pretty good.
I was on however, prozac, klonopin , and trazodone. This was short term, I did the prozac and trazodone for about 4 - 6 months, of course the klonopin was for 2 weeks only. You really don't need it after that, but all combined helped me tremendously.
As long as you communicate with your doctor your feelings, together with a plan you can whip this thing.
Do not get me wrong, the WD was hell on earth, as you well know. Just ride it out.
You have committed to this and I am in awe of how committed you have been.
You have inspired me with your confidence and commitment.
Thanks Brooke
llh
Great advice from Brooke
How are you doing this Sunday...feeling a TAD better?? jouranl..journal..youve come SO far...im in total awe of you..
You mentioned being late for your period...that happened to me too while i went through withdrawal...i think its a combination of stress and hormones going whacko....
Your doing so great......
Watching the footbqall game this afternoon? I actually found a satelitte chanel that is live on WWJ wherever that is, but its live so we get the U.S. commercials.....yipee....we usually dont et those, they just feed us local Canadian commercials ( boo)
Got the hotdogs ready, popcorn, made jello shaped like little football amaretto shooters...so hopefully someone will come over..oh yeah and teriakki little drumstick guys are in the oven....
Hubby is very into football, so I have to fane some kind of enthusiasm foir him... his usual cohorts are all out of town so cant watch it together this year...poor guy....
I will have to do....
Hope you have a good afternoon honey..mark those happy moments...even happy seconds! they will come more and more..
Hugs
Ali
Great advice from Brooke
How are you doing this Sunday...feeling a TAD better?? jouranl..journal..youve come SO far...im in total awe of you..
You mentioned being late for your period...that happened to me too while i went through withdrawal...i think its a combination of stress and hormones going whacko....
Your doing so great......
Watching the footbqall game this afternoon? I actually found a satelitte chanel that is live on WWJ wherever that is, but its live so we get the U.S. commercials.....yipee....we usually dont et those, they just feed us local Canadian commercials ( boo)
Got the hotdogs ready, popcorn, made jello shaped like little football amaretto shooters...so hopefully someone will come over..oh yeah and teriakki little drumstick guys are in the oven....
Hubby is very into football, so I have to fane some kind of enthusiasm foir him... his usual cohorts are all out of town so cant watch it together this year...poor guy....
I will have to do....
Hope you have a good afternoon honey..mark those happy moments...even happy seconds! they will come more and more..
Hugs
Ali
