>You could use a different program, yours is not working.<
Common 12 stepper mistake, if I don't understand it, it must not be working.
Ever consider that bottling up anger is not the cure? The real problem with the 12 steps is that although they are a way to quit using, they do not address the underlieing issues which created the desire/need to use in the first place. If you go through all the steps and are still as broken as when you started using, can you really say you are "cured?" You yourself said in a recent post that its more than running dry, it requires an attitude adjustment.
>Common 12 stepper mistake, if I don't understand it, it must not be working<
... where in the heck does that come from? -I don't understand the anger.
Why trash me? Why trash a sucessful program? It may not be for you, that's fine. Just what is your program? If it's working for you great, I'll support it! For your info a 12 step program treats the whole person. It has to do with Honesty. You certainly do address the reasons for using. and this is put into practice in our daily lives. The program is a process, a process for complete recovery.
But as I have said before a 12 step program is one of the paths. The important thing; if you want to stop your addictive behaviors, you ask for help. And is that not what some of us are here for, to help people get well?
... where in the heck does that come from? -I don't understand the anger.
Why trash me? Why trash a sucessful program? It may not be for you, that's fine. Just what is your program? If it's working for you great, I'll support it! For your info a 12 step program treats the whole person. It has to do with Honesty. You certainly do address the reasons for using. and this is put into practice in our daily lives. The program is a process, a process for complete recovery.
But as I have said before a 12 step program is one of the paths. The important thing; if you want to stop your addictive behaviors, you ask for help. And is that not what some of us are here for, to help people get well?
myAKA-
It's not anger, its just an observation. I have yet to meet a 12 stepper who thinks there is any other way. Then they wonder why people consder it a religion?
What is my way?
From post #16 on this thread-(just before jojo's angry one)
{>Hippie refers to sacred time which you are probably one of the ones that adores that concept. I have no idea what he means by that<
Then you haven't been paying attention, go re-read the thread "Whatever works is good (edited)." I know you have already read it once, you posted on it.}
It would seem you, like August before you would rather ignore or discount anything outside of the 12 step program. Perhaps that is the source of the confusion.
I hope our common goal is to help anyone who comes to this board get better. That is why I answered the question by refering the questioner to AA and NA. And followed up with a post of an even easier way to access the information.
If you would care to have an intellegent discussion, I suggest you do your research before you enter the debate, as I learned to do way back in high school. And so I sign off as I have many times before-
Whatever works is good.
The only way to quit is to quit.
It's not anger, its just an observation. I have yet to meet a 12 stepper who thinks there is any other way. Then they wonder why people consder it a religion?
What is my way?
From post #16 on this thread-(just before jojo's angry one)
{>Hippie refers to sacred time which you are probably one of the ones that adores that concept. I have no idea what he means by that<
Then you haven't been paying attention, go re-read the thread "Whatever works is good (edited)." I know you have already read it once, you posted on it.}
It would seem you, like August before you would rather ignore or discount anything outside of the 12 step program. Perhaps that is the source of the confusion.
I hope our common goal is to help anyone who comes to this board get better. That is why I answered the question by refering the questioner to AA and NA. And followed up with a post of an even easier way to access the information.
If you would care to have an intellegent discussion, I suggest you do your research before you enter the debate, as I learned to do way back in high school. And so I sign off as I have many times before-
Whatever works is good.
The only way to quit is to quit.
i have been to many hundreds of AA meetings and have never seen anything rammed down anyone's throat, it is a program of attraction not promotion, simple slogan that is totally true. Also, in my many hundreds of AA meetings, most long ago when AA saved my life from alcoholism, I NEVER, not even once, saw such "trite" behavior as I have repeatedly observed on this forum. In AA, people go around the room, say what they wish, no one EVER EVER EVER feels the need to condemn, accuse or degrade another person. INever! more than I can say for some of this crowd.
And hippie, you behavior with the poor soul who made their first post was inexcusable! The person coming here for help, mentioned they were in the casino industry, as an aside, nothing to do with their problem, just some information, and you had to attack their carreer and their path in life. Whatsoever for?? The words speak for themselves.
And hippie, you behavior with the poor soul who made their first post was inexcusable! The person coming here for help, mentioned they were in the casino industry, as an aside, nothing to do with their problem, just some information, and you had to attack their carreer and their path in life. Whatsoever for?? The words speak for themselves.
Seems to be a lot of ARROGANCE flying around here. Is any of this helping anyone?
Let's forget the past of this board, there is nothing that can change it, 12 steps works for some and some it does not, Sacred time is something a dude in Indiana decided to come up with and get his 15 minutes of fame from a message board none the less.; and it worked for one person on here and she is thankful.
There are lots of coping skills we could all benefit from that would be helpful to share but IMAO bickering, accusing, digging up past resentments, etc. etc. is not one of them.
I can kiss everyones a** and gladly will, if that will make it all better, but this is ridiculous, please save it for the pain pill board or email, this has been a friendly board.
while I am all for a good debate, attacks are unecessary. Questioning and defining our techniques is one thing, but this is insane.
Let's forget the past of this board, there is nothing that can change it, 12 steps works for some and some it does not, Sacred time is something a dude in Indiana decided to come up with and get his 15 minutes of fame from a message board none the less.; and it worked for one person on here and she is thankful.
There are lots of coping skills we could all benefit from that would be helpful to share but IMAO bickering, accusing, digging up past resentments, etc. etc. is not one of them.
I can kiss everyones a** and gladly will, if that will make it all better, but this is ridiculous, please save it for the pain pill board or email, this has been a friendly board.
while I am all for a good debate, attacks are unecessary. Questioning and defining our techniques is one thing, but this is insane.
jamv-
really can't argue with any of that.
hc-
You really do need to pay attention though, that was not her first post. And I wasn't attacking her carreer or her choices in life, mearly suguesting that if she felt giving up the MJ which she seems to think helps with her OCD was not an option at this point, there might be other ways to deal with that situation.
Whatever goes on at AA or NA is one thing. People who are convinced that thier way is the only way is another, wether it's 12 steps, their flavor of 'higher power' or political agenda. I never have said there is only one way to quit, never will. I simply ask the same courtesy from the other posters.
really can't argue with any of that.
hc-
You really do need to pay attention though, that was not her first post. And I wasn't attacking her carreer or her choices in life, mearly suguesting that if she felt giving up the MJ which she seems to think helps with her OCD was not an option at this point, there might be other ways to deal with that situation.
Whatever goes on at AA or NA is one thing. People who are convinced that thier way is the only way is another, wether it's 12 steps, their flavor of 'higher power' or political agenda. I never have said there is only one way to quit, never will. I simply ask the same courtesy from the other posters.
:) jo
Wow! I just came to see the wizard...
but I do know that you listen to the people who have been around awhile, isn't "hang with the winners" one of the things we learn from many different sources? I do know this for me-stay away from the newbie advice, That is like me giving advice to myself, right?...been there, done that, did not work!
I post because I need to build relationships with people who know what I am going thru, I don't have any advice. We do all have a different way of taking the journey to see the wizard. Thanks for being here, really, oh and TOTO, I don't want to see what is behind the curtain right now.LOL
but I do know that you listen to the people who have been around awhile, isn't "hang with the winners" one of the things we learn from many different sources? I do know this for me-stay away from the newbie advice, That is like me giving advice to myself, right?...been there, done that, did not work!
I post because I need to build relationships with people who know what I am going thru, I don't have any advice. We do all have a different way of taking the journey to see the wizard. Thanks for being here, really, oh and TOTO, I don't want to see what is behind the curtain right now.LOL
-hippienerd wrote
>Then you haven't been paying attention, go re-read the thread "Whatever works is good (edited)." I know you have already read it once, you posted on it.}
It would seem you, like August before you would rather ignore or discount anything outside of the 12 step program. Perhaps that is the source of the confusion<
To clarify I did not post on that thread, but I did read it. Where does scared time address treatment of the whole person? You are quick to accuse many, as well as myself, of discounting other paths. Do you not read our posts? I've not done any of that. Seems some of us are defending ourselves and our program from you and jojo. Attack, attack seems to be your mantra.
-hardcharger wrote
>In AA, people go around the room, say what they wish, no one EVER EVER EVER feels the need to condemn, accuse or degrade another person. INever! more than I can say for some of this crowd.<
Here,here, there are some ego's here.
-jamv wrote
>Let's forget the past of this board, there is nothing that can change it, 12 steps works for some and some it does not, Sacred time is something a dude in Indiana decided to come up with and get his 15 minutes of fame from a message board none the less.; and it worked for one person on here and she is thankful.
There are lots of coping skills we could all benefit from that would be helpful to share but IMAO bickering, accusing, digging up past resentments, etc. etc. is not one of them.<
Thanks for the sanity! I did not come here to create discord. I wish to be helpful and with 5 years of clean living, I'm sure I can be of some help.
>Then you haven't been paying attention, go re-read the thread "Whatever works is good (edited)." I know you have already read it once, you posted on it.}
It would seem you, like August before you would rather ignore or discount anything outside of the 12 step program. Perhaps that is the source of the confusion<
To clarify I did not post on that thread, but I did read it. Where does scared time address treatment of the whole person? You are quick to accuse many, as well as myself, of discounting other paths. Do you not read our posts? I've not done any of that. Seems some of us are defending ourselves and our program from you and jojo. Attack, attack seems to be your mantra.
-hardcharger wrote
>In AA, people go around the room, say what they wish, no one EVER EVER EVER feels the need to condemn, accuse or degrade another person. INever! more than I can say for some of this crowd.<
Here,here, there are some ego's here.
-jamv wrote
>Let's forget the past of this board, there is nothing that can change it, 12 steps works for some and some it does not, Sacred time is something a dude in Indiana decided to come up with and get his 15 minutes of fame from a message board none the less.; and it worked for one person on here and she is thankful.
There are lots of coping skills we could all benefit from that would be helpful to share but IMAO bickering, accusing, digging up past resentments, etc. etc. is not one of them.<
Thanks for the sanity! I did not come here to create discord. I wish to be helpful and with 5 years of clean living, I'm sure I can be of some help.
myAKA-
If attack, attack is my mantra then why would I post ways to get information about 12 step programs? It's not the program I have a problem with, as I said before, it's the folks who push it as the only answer. Hopefully we can now lay this to rest. If you are not august, or even if you are, you are welcome as far as I am concerned, but I will dispute any notion that there is only one way to get clean.
I know you did not post on that thread, I did a cut and paste from my response to hardcharger, and he did.
I don't think any set of rules can work for everyone, and if you look at my resposes you will see I have said several times that recovery beyond quitting is an individual thing. The path of a person to recovery is as individual as the path that brought them to using in the first place, but that is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it but I would appreciate it if you would at least respect it. One thing they all do have in common is finding the source of the reasons for the drug use, and dealing with them.
I don't claim to have all the answers, heck every time I do find one it only generates more questions. Besides if it were that simple, I'd just start a thread, and bump it up to the top every week or so. Or write a self help book.
If attack, attack is my mantra then why would I post ways to get information about 12 step programs? It's not the program I have a problem with, as I said before, it's the folks who push it as the only answer. Hopefully we can now lay this to rest. If you are not august, or even if you are, you are welcome as far as I am concerned, but I will dispute any notion that there is only one way to get clean.
I know you did not post on that thread, I did a cut and paste from my response to hardcharger, and he did.
I don't think any set of rules can work for everyone, and if you look at my resposes you will see I have said several times that recovery beyond quitting is an individual thing. The path of a person to recovery is as individual as the path that brought them to using in the first place, but that is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it but I would appreciate it if you would at least respect it. One thing they all do have in common is finding the source of the reasons for the drug use, and dealing with them.
I don't claim to have all the answers, heck every time I do find one it only generates more questions. Besides if it were that simple, I'd just start a thread, and bump it up to the top every week or so. Or write a self help book.
>Hopefully we can now lay this to rest. If you are not august, or even if you are, you are welcome as far as I am concerned, ...<
I don't know who august is, nor do I care. Seems this person has cause people to be quite paranoid.
>... but I will dispute any notion that there is only one way to get clean....<
Again I haven't read anything to threaten that statement, certainly not recently.
>... don't think any set of rules can work for everyone, and if you look at my resposes you will see I have said several times that recovery beyond quitting is an individual thing. The path of a person to recovery is as individual as the path that brought them to using in the first place, but that is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it but I would appreciate it if you would at least respect it. <
Again, I certainly do respect individuality and I certainly respect your opinion. -As long as anger is not personally directed at me or anyone else here, or at any recovery program
>...One thing they all do have in common is finding the source of the reasons for the drug use, and dealing with them...<
Thank you, these are the statements of a caring person.
>I don't claim to have all the answers, heck every time I do find one it only generates more questions.<
That's the truth, we all seek knowledge.
I don't know who august is, nor do I care. Seems this person has cause people to be quite paranoid.
>... but I will dispute any notion that there is only one way to get clean....<
Again I haven't read anything to threaten that statement, certainly not recently.
>... don't think any set of rules can work for everyone, and if you look at my resposes you will see I have said several times that recovery beyond quitting is an individual thing. The path of a person to recovery is as individual as the path that brought them to using in the first place, but that is my opinion, you don't have to agree with it but I would appreciate it if you would at least respect it. <
Again, I certainly do respect individuality and I certainly respect your opinion. -As long as anger is not personally directed at me or anyone else here, or at any recovery program
>...One thing they all do have in common is finding the source of the reasons for the drug use, and dealing with them...<
Thank you, these are the statements of a caring person.
>I don't claim to have all the answers, heck every time I do find one it only generates more questions.<
That's the truth, we all seek knowledge.
Good luck Mr. B!
I'm just here looking for the wizard...
I'm just here looking for the wizard...
OOOps. sorry about that. I was not signed in. Excuse double post please, don't really know what I am doing. LOL
Ok, can we all just give a group hug now??
are the men done with the pissing contest,???
Jo he claims he isnt august or know who august is. Now we have no way of knowing. Personally I would like to say this. I dont care who you are. IF August is reading of IF august is posting it would not be the first time a person has posted as someone else.
I butted heads a few times at first with August, several people have and he never claimed to be an easy going person. However, he at least came to me on the board an apologized for any personal frustration he threw my way, or line of fire I got caught in. Humility is hard, but amirable in my book, something I havent seen in any of these guys around here thus far. My disappointment would be that he left this board in frustration after developing some positive relationships and offering to support me from a different perspective and he did this KNOWING that I did not do the 12 steps. So this was a big STEP for him. I made some post requesting his email and got no response. As I said I would be very disappointed to know that he would be posting as someone else and blew me off like that supposedly for his own well being I understand, but hanging out and not letting us know he is here, well I guess people are people and he would have his reasons. Maybe I was too trusting? I hope that is not the case.
are the men done with the pissing contest,???
Jo he claims he isnt august or know who august is. Now we have no way of knowing. Personally I would like to say this. I dont care who you are. IF August is reading of IF august is posting it would not be the first time a person has posted as someone else.
I butted heads a few times at first with August, several people have and he never claimed to be an easy going person. However, he at least came to me on the board an apologized for any personal frustration he threw my way, or line of fire I got caught in. Humility is hard, but amirable in my book, something I havent seen in any of these guys around here thus far. My disappointment would be that he left this board in frustration after developing some positive relationships and offering to support me from a different perspective and he did this KNOWING that I did not do the 12 steps. So this was a big STEP for him. I made some post requesting his email and got no response. As I said I would be very disappointed to know that he would be posting as someone else and blew me off like that supposedly for his own well being I understand, but hanging out and not letting us know he is here, well I guess people are people and he would have his reasons. Maybe I was too trusting? I hope that is not the case.
jamv-
I not sure what you consider humilty, apparently admitting I don't have the answers doesn't count. Nor does refering people to a program I don't believe in. Nor does the fact that I came here not to find some new treatment or path but to prove to myself and perhaps someone else that I was different. None of that ended up mattering, and doesn't now.
But I am tired of being attacked, and of having to cover the same ground over and over, of having my motives doubted and my methods questioned by people who seem so intent on seeing things through the prisim of their own predjudice that they don't even bother to read what is posted and misquote me back to myself. So I leave it to you professionals and those with years of clean time under your belts to make these folks who want to quit better. I have better things to do. Enjoy.
I not sure what you consider humilty, apparently admitting I don't have the answers doesn't count. Nor does refering people to a program I don't believe in. Nor does the fact that I came here not to find some new treatment or path but to prove to myself and perhaps someone else that I was different. None of that ended up mattering, and doesn't now.
But I am tired of being attacked, and of having to cover the same ground over and over, of having my motives doubted and my methods questioned by people who seem so intent on seeing things through the prisim of their own predjudice that they don't even bother to read what is posted and misquote me back to myself. So I leave it to you professionals and those with years of clean time under your belts to make these folks who want to quit better. I have better things to do. Enjoy.
Please! You have no idea what this is doing to me! We had such a good thing going & now everyone is fighting & talking about leaving. Please, Hippie dont leave! & I dont want AKA to leave either. I love/loved August & I also wish there was room for him here again to. He is the reason I even started posting on this board & I will never forget his inspiration to me. Jamv, I want you to know that August was very giving in his time & help but he got discouraged & I don't blame him for that. I just wish I could have done better & then maybe I would have a yrs clean time & he would still be here, but it didnt work out that way. All I can do is try to make him proud now & hope that he is reading this. It had nothing to do with you personally Jamv but once you let people in & you are hurt by them even inadvertantly, one tends to back off & thats what happened here. I hope everyone can put there hard feeling aside & just continue sharing in our recovery as we have been. AKA, I am sorry you got caught up in all this & if you would like to know who August is you can just read back. He helped alot of us here & also got under some peoples skin. I hope you continue to stick around & see that we are a fun & caring bunch. Who knows maybe August will bless us with his presence & then you'll see for yourself.
Love to Everyone,
aea
Love to Everyone,
aea
