At the recovery home in 1989 I heard a newcomer say he needed a lobotomy .
The group leader said "Well, you can get one but it won't help!" ......
I often wondered (as an alcoholic/addict) what it would be like to spend a week in a normal person's head/heart/body/soul -
I can tell you that if you are a normal person YOU DO NOT WANT to spend a week in mine !
To become normal/sane/serene seemed IMPOSSIBLE to my diseased mind and I didn't want to even attempt it (fear of failure/fear of success)
It took all my strength (physical/emotional/mental/spiritual) just to sit at a meeting.
But I continued to "will myself" to daily meetings (not self-will myself away) and over time things improved in-spite of me as I fought recovery tooth & nail.
One thing has happened over the years (decades) that I am coming to experience -
and that is The Grace of God
I am given a new life that I don't understand (but I'm learning) and don't deserve.
The consequences of drinking drugging is suffering and death.
The consequences of surrendering to AA is (normal) life and freedom.
Why would an alcoholic/addict not "choose" recovery ?? - because we're SICK (not sane)
All the best.
Bob R.
Pappa Bear -'smile'
that quote made me chuckle, which I don't usually do on this forum. So many people struggling to understand addiction, to learn not to enable.
Girl's I will keep praying for both of your boys! I wish I could find mine and grab his ear and say this is it, do it! But at 35 I really think he won't listen to anything :).
Paula, listen to NY it will be a lifetime commitment, and I hope Z is ready for it, I am not sure he is ready he is going to fight and complain and emotional blackmail as much as he can.
So be prepared to say no! good luck!
xx
Sue
that quote made me chuckle, which I don't usually do on this forum. So many people struggling to understand addiction, to learn not to enable.
Girl's I will keep praying for both of your boys! I wish I could find mine and grab his ear and say this is it, do it! But at 35 I really think he won't listen to anything :).
Paula, listen to NY it will be a lifetime commitment, and I hope Z is ready for it, I am not sure he is ready he is going to fight and complain and emotional blackmail as much as he can.
So be prepared to say no! good luck!
xx
Sue
Hey all my friends
It's been an awful day. I drove 4 hours to see my son (mainly to get a prescription filled)
He is in the Christian place but after 3 days he told me that this is not for him. "he doesn't do God"
I stood firm and told him that we have done everything else ... This is it. He begged for something, anything else...and I stood firm
He can't smoke, can't do his drugs, girlfriend broke up......and extremely depressed.
I held it together but lost it when I left. He may jump the fence and leave. Nothing I can do!!
This really sucks!!! Why can't my son have a good job, a car, a good girl, ?????
Deep breath... Serenity prayer... Prayer
Keep us in your thoughts please !!!Not the best day!
PAULA
It's been an awful day. I drove 4 hours to see my son (mainly to get a prescription filled)
He is in the Christian place but after 3 days he told me that this is not for him. "he doesn't do God"
I stood firm and told him that we have done everything else ... This is it. He begged for something, anything else...and I stood firm
He can't smoke, can't do his drugs, girlfriend broke up......and extremely depressed.
I held it together but lost it when I left. He may jump the fence and leave. Nothing I can do!!
This really sucks!!! Why can't my son have a good job, a car, a good girl, ?????
Deep breath... Serenity prayer... Prayer
Keep us in your thoughts please !!!Not the best day!
PAULA
I am so sorry Paula! I am praying that Z will stay the course and do what he needs to do. Been there myself, when Chris left two programs of rehab that we thought would be his turning point, but fact is, they have to want it and in my case, it was me that wanted it for him.
Yes-- serenity prayers says it all! Hang in there --you have done all you could and more than you should.
Praying for you and Z!
(((Hugs)))
Yes-- serenity prayers says it all! Hang in there --you have done all you could and more than you should.
Praying for you and Z!
(((Hugs)))
Paula-
I know it was hard. I know it was painful. Im sending you a huge hug!!!!!
But you did a fantastic job under harsh emotional circumstances. You didn't lose your cool. You didn't scream, bargain or enable when your son was losing his mind...and use fear against you. You go, girl!!!! High five to you!!!
Your son learned a lot. He learned that he can't push certain buttons anymore on you. He learned that you love him but have boundaries. He learned that he has choices. He can stay in the Christian place and work the program or he can be homeless and smoke to his heart's desire. (And I smoke so I know quitting is no easy task.). I'm praying that he chooses to stay and work the program.
It's okay to cry. Cry for the dreams you have for your child that he may not realize bc of his addiction. Cry for the loss of your pre addiction son. Cry Bc he is struggling with this retched disease. But also shed a few tears of joy...even if it is only for tonight... You know where he is; you know that he is safe; you know that he's not using. Also, shed a tear of hope Bc like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, he has everything he needs to face and battle his addiction. He just has to realize it...and want it.
Be good to yourself Paula. Be patient with your son and yourself. Praying for you and Z!!!
Lynn
Xoxo
I know it was hard. I know it was painful. Im sending you a huge hug!!!!!
But you did a fantastic job under harsh emotional circumstances. You didn't lose your cool. You didn't scream, bargain or enable when your son was losing his mind...and use fear against you. You go, girl!!!! High five to you!!!
Your son learned a lot. He learned that he can't push certain buttons anymore on you. He learned that you love him but have boundaries. He learned that he has choices. He can stay in the Christian place and work the program or he can be homeless and smoke to his heart's desire. (And I smoke so I know quitting is no easy task.). I'm praying that he chooses to stay and work the program.
It's okay to cry. Cry for the dreams you have for your child that he may not realize bc of his addiction. Cry for the loss of your pre addiction son. Cry Bc he is struggling with this retched disease. But also shed a few tears of joy...even if it is only for tonight... You know where he is; you know that he is safe; you know that he's not using. Also, shed a tear of hope Bc like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, he has everything he needs to face and battle his addiction. He just has to realize it...and want it.
Be good to yourself Paula. Be patient with your son and yourself. Praying for you and Z!!!
Lynn
Xoxo
Hey friends
Lynn, I've been praying for you. I'm so happy you still are here with us. I need all the advice I can get. Thanks for the hug
Duchess, I pray for you! Take care of yourself and know that your son loves you.
Today was so hard. Breaks my heart to see my sons eyes so sad. I think "where did we go wrong?"
I'm sure he was depressed and added manipulation to see if he could push the button with me.
I didn't cry. I was strong and told him how difficult it is to see him killing
Himself and that now he needs to let God help.
When I walked out..... I lost it. I've been so alone but my mom and sister just moved back from Georgia ... They were in the car waiting and helped me calm down.
After I brought the prescriptions I didn't want to see him again so I left at the front for him.
He saw me walking to the car and put it hands up like what's up.. I yelled and told him I love you so much. Stay strong and have faith. He could tell I was crying and kind of shook his head. I think he said he loved me too.
Whew... I just ate an egg roll, Reese's cup and a bowl of ice cream. Soon I'm going on a diet. Lol
Hugs
PAULA
Lynn, I've been praying for you. I'm so happy you still are here with us. I need all the advice I can get. Thanks for the hug
Duchess, I pray for you! Take care of yourself and know that your son loves you.
Today was so hard. Breaks my heart to see my sons eyes so sad. I think "where did we go wrong?"
I'm sure he was depressed and added manipulation to see if he could push the button with me.
I didn't cry. I was strong and told him how difficult it is to see him killing
Himself and that now he needs to let God help.
When I walked out..... I lost it. I've been so alone but my mom and sister just moved back from Georgia ... They were in the car waiting and helped me calm down.
After I brought the prescriptions I didn't want to see him again so I left at the front for him.
He saw me walking to the car and put it hands up like what's up.. I yelled and told him I love you so much. Stay strong and have faith. He could tell I was crying and kind of shook his head. I think he said he loved me too.
Whew... I just ate an egg roll, Reese's cup and a bowl of ice cream. Soon I'm going on a diet. Lol
Hugs
PAULA
Wow....such courage!! Believe me when I say that when you dropped those prescriptions without going back in...and he saw you....his mind started reeling. He KNOWS you are serious THIS TIME. This is a HUGE turning point. HUGE. Lets now pray he stays the course...at least you know YOU didnt participate in YOUR addiction. He has NO OPTION but to change his thinking now. GREAT JOB!!!!
It is hard to see them sad. That's why we ended up in the enabling position
I hope he stays there.
The meds they give when a person is in early recovery is a little confusing to me. I think they are or should be temporary. anxiety, sleep, depression?
Sorry you had to drive all the way there to pickup and bring the meds...
Keep praying. Tell Zach this is temporary. It is needed for him to go thru to get to the next step of taking care of himself and not using crack anymore.
....
I hope he stays there.
The meds they give when a person is in early recovery is a little confusing to me. I think they are or should be temporary. anxiety, sleep, depression?
Sorry you had to drive all the way there to pickup and bring the meds...
Keep praying. Tell Zach this is temporary. It is needed for him to go thru to get to the next step of taking care of himself and not using crack anymore.
....
Paula,
I know how hard it must be to feel like you were walking away from your son, but you were helping him to become more accountable for his actions.
I have two boys and they have both struggled with addiction issues. My oldest also had serious mental health issues - I thought he was making some headway and was on the road to recovery with less than 4 months left of court ordered treatment for his serious mental health diagnosis. He was living in a supervised living home/apartment, was taking place in a partial hospitalization program when he checked into a motel to have a drink and take some Percocet where he overdosed. I used to see him every weekend when he got through with his day, take him out to dinner, have him over for dinner, and we'd text back and forth every day. I didn't see that coming. It broke my heart and it really doesn't get that much easier.
My other son had a very bad opiate addiction that started with pain pills after a knee injury and 2 surgeries as a teenager. He went to a therapeutic boarding school his junior year (which I am still paying off for the past 10 years) and started to use again about a week after he came home. He left home when he was 17 because he thought we were going to send him off again. I figured my job as a parent was to keep him alive and in one piece until he became an adult, so I worried, waited and drove all around town in my off hours looking for him. Once he turned 18 and wanted to come home we told him he needed to find a way to support himself. He joined the army and LOVED it. We thought he found something that he loved and would be successful at. He received early promotions and was in Iraq when he suffered a seizure, so they sent him back to the states. I was secretly so relieved because I knew he wasn't in a war zone any longer, but he had this horrible survivors guilt. He started using again and we went through hell several different ways. He started a methadone program, met someone, got married and was starting to work. My oldest son's death really affected him and he started to decompensate once more.
My daughter in law found a rehab place and he started that in July. My son went in order to save his marriage. After he had been there for about 2 weeks, he was still having bad withdrawals and wanted me to come get him so he could spend the night at my house for one night. That enabling part of me almost said yes - But instead I told him no and he said he would call one of his friends (who also deals) and stay with him instead. It really made me angry that he was trying to blackmail me. He did call that friend who "helpfully" offered some heroin to relieve the withdrawals, but my son decided against it. He made the decision to say no. He ended up staying and so far, has been about 60 days clean. He is still with the program but in a lower level of care. I am grateful for each day that he is clean. I talk to him and I know he isn't under the influence of anything.
I guess the point of this long,rambling message is that we need to let our sons/daughters make the decision to use/not use or stay/not stay. It hurts and they may suffer as a result, but the decision is theirs, no matter how much we as parents want to swoop in and keep them from harm. I know it was hard for you to see this, but you did the right thing.
I know how hard it must be to feel like you were walking away from your son, but you were helping him to become more accountable for his actions.
I have two boys and they have both struggled with addiction issues. My oldest also had serious mental health issues - I thought he was making some headway and was on the road to recovery with less than 4 months left of court ordered treatment for his serious mental health diagnosis. He was living in a supervised living home/apartment, was taking place in a partial hospitalization program when he checked into a motel to have a drink and take some Percocet where he overdosed. I used to see him every weekend when he got through with his day, take him out to dinner, have him over for dinner, and we'd text back and forth every day. I didn't see that coming. It broke my heart and it really doesn't get that much easier.
My other son had a very bad opiate addiction that started with pain pills after a knee injury and 2 surgeries as a teenager. He went to a therapeutic boarding school his junior year (which I am still paying off for the past 10 years) and started to use again about a week after he came home. He left home when he was 17 because he thought we were going to send him off again. I figured my job as a parent was to keep him alive and in one piece until he became an adult, so I worried, waited and drove all around town in my off hours looking for him. Once he turned 18 and wanted to come home we told him he needed to find a way to support himself. He joined the army and LOVED it. We thought he found something that he loved and would be successful at. He received early promotions and was in Iraq when he suffered a seizure, so they sent him back to the states. I was secretly so relieved because I knew he wasn't in a war zone any longer, but he had this horrible survivors guilt. He started using again and we went through hell several different ways. He started a methadone program, met someone, got married and was starting to work. My oldest son's death really affected him and he started to decompensate once more.
My daughter in law found a rehab place and he started that in July. My son went in order to save his marriage. After he had been there for about 2 weeks, he was still having bad withdrawals and wanted me to come get him so he could spend the night at my house for one night. That enabling part of me almost said yes - But instead I told him no and he said he would call one of his friends (who also deals) and stay with him instead. It really made me angry that he was trying to blackmail me. He did call that friend who "helpfully" offered some heroin to relieve the withdrawals, but my son decided against it. He made the decision to say no. He ended up staying and so far, has been about 60 days clean. He is still with the program but in a lower level of care. I am grateful for each day that he is clean. I talk to him and I know he isn't under the influence of anything.
I guess the point of this long,rambling message is that we need to let our sons/daughters make the decision to use/not use or stay/not stay. It hurts and they may suffer as a result, but the decision is theirs, no matter how much we as parents want to swoop in and keep them from harm. I know it was hard for you to see this, but you did the right thing.
Hey Jen, Ny and Mtgirl
Thank you for the messages
I drove home today (I'm about 4 hours away from Zach)
My heart hurts! I know I did the right thing but it doesn't really help.
I just want to go home and tell my fianc but he's not very supportive.
We are seeing a counselor soon. I know I have put my son first but I also need
Support from the person that is suppose to love me.
Mygirl...what age was your son when he OD?
I am so sorry. Zach has been in the hospital at least 6-8 times. I am losing track of the rehabs And sober living homes. I pray one day my son will get it.
Have a great day friends
Hugs
PAULA
Thank you for the messages
I drove home today (I'm about 4 hours away from Zach)
My heart hurts! I know I did the right thing but it doesn't really help.
I just want to go home and tell my fianc but he's not very supportive.
We are seeing a counselor soon. I know I have put my son first but I also need
Support from the person that is suppose to love me.
Mygirl...what age was your son when he OD?
I am so sorry. Zach has been in the hospital at least 6-8 times. I am losing track of the rehabs And sober living homes. I pray one day my son will get it.
Have a great day friends
Hugs
PAULA
Mtgirl - I am sorry you lost your oldest son. I can imagine it was a shock and surprise. I would feel that way about my son. he is mostly clean since January. some small relapses. I think he is doing OK, is working, renting a room. so it would be a surprise, but not impossible if he od'd.
Cherish the quality time you had with your son. He probably felt best about that time when he was clean and having dinner with you.
paula - keep at it. I hope Z stays with the program. I can understand it is hard for him. but it is temporary, and you can not do it for him anymore. It sounds like your Mom's location is close to him? Will he try to manipulate her? your sister or brother?
let us know how things are going.... Good Luck, keep praying!
Cherish the quality time you had with your son. He probably felt best about that time when he was clean and having dinner with you.
paula - keep at it. I hope Z stays with the program. I can understand it is hard for him. but it is temporary, and you can not do it for him anymore. It sounds like your Mom's location is close to him? Will he try to manipulate her? your sister or brother?
let us know how things are going.... Good Luck, keep praying!
Hi Paula, NY and everyone else - I hope that your son continues to stay at the Christian home. He might have some doubts but as long as he makes the decision to stay, even on a daily basis, that's good.
You asked how old my son was when he died - he was 27. So so handsome and a gentle, beautiful soul. I read somewhere (I think it was Bill Moyers' son who is an addict in recovery) said that the drugs "filled a hole in his soul." It makes me sad to think he was hurting like that.
NY and Paula and others, I hope that your sons & daughters find that "spark", that thing that awakens their senses and makes them feel alive, like art, or a sport or something that makes them feel whole again without the need for drugs & alcohol.
You asked how old my son was when he died - he was 27. So so handsome and a gentle, beautiful soul. I read somewhere (I think it was Bill Moyers' son who is an addict in recovery) said that the drugs "filled a hole in his soul." It makes me sad to think he was hurting like that.
NY and Paula and others, I hope that your sons & daughters find that "spark", that thing that awakens their senses and makes them feel alive, like art, or a sport or something that makes them feel whole again without the need for drugs & alcohol.
I heard an alcoholic oldtimer say "I came to AA with a hole in my soul"
"How big was it ??" asked the newcomer...
"Just about God size" said the oldtimer.
All the best to the addicts and their families, friends (hostages).
Bob
"How big was it ??" asked the newcomer...
"Just about God size" said the oldtimer.
All the best to the addicts and their families, friends (hostages).
Bob
Update and would love some feedback
So, Zach has been in the Christian place for 7 days. He called me today and told me that this is just not his thing. He said he still wants to be sober but doesn't feel like reading biblical versus Is helping him.
Before he went in, I had another friend that said not to push him into this setting. This was coming from an addict who has been clean several years.
Zach is asking to go to IOP and live in sober living or even go to another place that is bare minimum that's a 12 step program. He's also a smoker so on top of the Christian setting he's at...he can't smoke either. I'm sure that's hard. I'm not a smoker so I don't know.
I'm not enabling. I told him he is a adult and needs to figure it out.
I will support and love him but I'm not getting stuck in the middle of his addiction anymore.
He has alittle money that his dad left him so would I be enabling him if he decides to go to a sober living and IOP??!
Thanks everyone
I would appreciate your prayers
Hugs
Paula
So, Zach has been in the Christian place for 7 days. He called me today and told me that this is just not his thing. He said he still wants to be sober but doesn't feel like reading biblical versus Is helping him.
Before he went in, I had another friend that said not to push him into this setting. This was coming from an addict who has been clean several years.
Zach is asking to go to IOP and live in sober living or even go to another place that is bare minimum that's a 12 step program. He's also a smoker so on top of the Christian setting he's at...he can't smoke either. I'm sure that's hard. I'm not a smoker so I don't know.
I'm not enabling. I told him he is a adult and needs to figure it out.
I will support and love him but I'm not getting stuck in the middle of his addiction anymore.
He has alittle money that his dad left him so would I be enabling him if he decides to go to a sober living and IOP??!
Thanks everyone
I would appreciate your prayers
Hugs
Paula
It's a hard one, Paula.
I know, in the beginning, I had to do most EVERYTHING that I didn't want to do to stay in the 90 day recovery program.
Simply put - I went into the recovery home and said "I'll do anything to get sober !!"
So they slid a 12 Step card in front of me and said "Let's start with this".
I looked at the card and said "I ain't doing this s#!t "
It was my very nature to rail against the very thing(s) that would benefit me -
Do you know what I mean ??
How bad can life be when he is being looked after and cared for - and all he has to do is read a few bible pages !! Like that is going to hurt something ??!!
I would have him do 90 days at the Christian Center and then move into full time AA/NA after he has humbly thanked the Pastor for his time and effort.
HE DOES NOT GET TO CHOOSE WHAT IS GOOD FOR HIM - HE MAKES BAD CHOICES !!
He doesn't even know what is good for him.
No money ! No excuses ! No backing down !
That being said. It is (IMHO) more important for him to be in 12 Step than Bible camp.
We AAs have a little saying "Church will save your soul - AA will save your life"
All the best.
Bob
I know, in the beginning, I had to do most EVERYTHING that I didn't want to do to stay in the 90 day recovery program.
Simply put - I went into the recovery home and said "I'll do anything to get sober !!"
So they slid a 12 Step card in front of me and said "Let's start with this".
I looked at the card and said "I ain't doing this s#!t "
It was my very nature to rail against the very thing(s) that would benefit me -
Do you know what I mean ??
How bad can life be when he is being looked after and cared for - and all he has to do is read a few bible pages !! Like that is going to hurt something ??!!
I would have him do 90 days at the Christian Center and then move into full time AA/NA after he has humbly thanked the Pastor for his time and effort.
HE DOES NOT GET TO CHOOSE WHAT IS GOOD FOR HIM - HE MAKES BAD CHOICES !!
He doesn't even know what is good for him.
No money ! No excuses ! No backing down !
That being said. It is (IMHO) more important for him to be in 12 Step than Bible camp.
We AAs have a little saying "Church will save your soul - AA will save your life"
All the best.
Bob
Ditto....what PB said. He doesn't want to read bible verses? Really...boo hoo. Read bible verses or live on the street...
PBear - sounds like good advice. I think it is important to hold Z to something before getting what HE wants. That has been a hard lesson for my son (27yrsold).
immediate gratification. Some addicts have issues with wanting what they want not and not being able to see the long term effects/benefits. If you can get him to stay 90 days and then move to a facility, it sounds like a good plan to me. It will give you time to research a place that will be able to carry Z forward with little to no help from you.
I think it is going to be a long road. my son is still not 100% clean, and he is older and was not using for that many years, so I thought it would be easier for him.... guess it is harder than I think to quit .....
Thank you all for your postings.
immediate gratification. Some addicts have issues with wanting what they want not and not being able to see the long term effects/benefits. If you can get him to stay 90 days and then move to a facility, it sounds like a good plan to me. It will give you time to research a place that will be able to carry Z forward with little to no help from you.
I think it is going to be a long road. my son is still not 100% clean, and he is older and was not using for that many years, so I thought it would be easier for him.... guess it is harder than I think to quit .....
Thank you all for your postings.
"It will give you time to research a place"
Z will have to develop the ability (through commitment to AA/NA and following the direction of sponsor/oldtimers) to finding HIS OWN path to a better life.
You don't have to (can't) find it for him and the sooner you let him flounder and learn the sooner he will start to grow up.
All the best.
Bob
Z will have to develop the ability (through commitment to AA/NA and following the direction of sponsor/oldtimers) to finding HIS OWN path to a better life.
You don't have to (can't) find it for him and the sooner you let him flounder and learn the sooner he will start to grow up.
All the best.
Bob
My son was in a Christian based sober living home and lasted 1 week. Said the same thing your Zach said. Didn't like all the praying! Also, the smoking was an issue as he is a heavy smoker. He begged me to come and get him and said he had a halfway house to go to. I caved and took him there and he lasted there 3 months. Said he called it (the street the halfway house was on) "The Dirty MIle." Moved out and in with a woman drug addict. Well ,you know the rest of the story. Been 4 years ago and he is now living with his third woman friend ( for some reason they support him financially).
We have no contact with him at present since he verbally assaulted us and because we won't give him money or enable him.
I guess that is the price we pay for detaching, but at least I know I am not enabling him to continue his lifestyle and drug habit--
Praying for you and your Zach!
(((HUGS)))
We have no contact with him at present since he verbally assaulted us and because we won't give him money or enable him.
I guess that is the price we pay for detaching, but at least I know I am not enabling him to continue his lifestyle and drug habit--
Praying for you and your Zach!
(((HUGS)))
Can he not go to meetings while there? would Pastor dude not allow it ? Perhaps he could ask for the big book or the NA book to read with the scriptures. ..just curious. ..im a smoker too btw...he can't smoke at all ? Or can he go outside? ...
