Why would anyone believe that an addiction is for life? Receptor cells that receive chemical transmitters are capable of relearning appropriate types and levels of chemicals that pass through the dendrites. But that doesn't seem to be the issue for most psychologists, psychiatrists, chemical dependency counselors, or even judges who believe in the 12 step program. Abstinence is their only plea, how sad, because it just doesn't cure. At best you end up with a life time membership to AA, NA, OEA, SMA, GA, and so on.
Humans have a love/hate relationship with feelings. Our inadequacies of dealing with feelings are why we look for outside pleasures to disregard ourselves. Just look at why you started using in the first place, it was a feeling, most likely overwhelming. And the truth was, you didn't know what to do with that feeling. You probably found it hard to breath, or maybe you thought you'd explode if you let yourself get that angry. Maybe someone abandoned you and all of a sudden you felt like a speck smaller than pepper in the midst of the universe. Maybe you lost your child and by the time reality hit, the casket had been in the ground for a month and you've realized how powerless we all are over death.
I'm sorry for all these feelings and the rest as well, they hurt tremendously, but they give us valuable information about ourselves. You won't burst feeling them, you won't go crazy and kill someone if you let the entire feeling take its course and accept that you are human. You won't shrivel up and die, in fact you'll blossom, you'll gain wisdom, and courage, and earn the right to say I am NOT an addict, I know how to feel my feelings.
Shower,
Based on the content of your grand total of 2 posts to this site, I'm assuming that you've never had a problem with substance abuse? Especially since you refer to "you addicts" or "when you started using drugs" instead of "I" or "we"
But more importantly, there is much science that proves that addiction IS a disease that can not be cured. Do you know many people that considered themselves addicts, went through a recovery program, and are now "casual" or "recreational" users? If so, more power to them, and I encourage you to have them share their success stories on this board.
Based on the content of your grand total of 2 posts to this site, I'm assuming that you've never had a problem with substance abuse? Especially since you refer to "you addicts" or "when you started using drugs" instead of "I" or "we"
But more importantly, there is much science that proves that addiction IS a disease that can not be cured. Do you know many people that considered themselves addicts, went through a recovery program, and are now "casual" or "recreational" users? If so, more power to them, and I encourage you to have them share their success stories on this board.
I dont feel deprived at all.I also dont have any life time membership with any group.I came to a place of peace with the fact that I am an addict and will never be able to use again.As a result,I incorporated many pleasurable alternatives in my life that give me more satisfaction than drugs ever did.What does it matter how I got there?NA,AA,therapy,spiritual work,whatever.The results are a freedom I never knew possible.If I bought into your line of reasoning,I could embrace that torture all over again.
I am around people who can drink and some can use drugs without it ever causing problems in their life.I believe they have a completely different genetic make-up than me.I dont care or obssess why they can do it and I cant anymore.I dont even want to.I am truly happy without it.
I agree with the post above me,It sounds like you talk from lack of experience and more from a cerebal place.Later
I am around people who can drink and some can use drugs without it ever causing problems in their life.I believe they have a completely different genetic make-up than me.I dont care or obssess why they can do it and I cant anymore.I dont even want to.I am truly happy without it.
I agree with the post above me,It sounds like you talk from lack of experience and more from a cerebal place.Later
Shower - you wrote:
"Abstinence is their only plea, how sad, because it just doesn't cure."
You failed, however, to let us in on what DOES cure. Were you saying that simply feeling those feelings will "cure" us from the desire to abuse drugs? How grand!
How long will it take for my receptors to re-learn what is an appropriate amount of drugs to take? That will be great news, then I can start ordering narcotics on the internet again!
"Abstinence is their only plea, how sad, because it just doesn't cure."
You failed, however, to let us in on what DOES cure. Were you saying that simply feeling those feelings will "cure" us from the desire to abuse drugs? How grand!
How long will it take for my receptors to re-learn what is an appropriate amount of drugs to take? That will be great news, then I can start ordering narcotics on the internet again!
Shower Im sorry but I feel that you are way off on this.Even after the physical side of addiction is fixed theres the mental part.The part that keeps you craving more.For some they can over come that easy enough for other like myself I know that those cravings will be with me tempting me for the rest of my life.I think maybe you should educate yourself more about this subject & the real people involved before you make a statement like that.....mj
ps GOODMORNING BETSY
ps GOODMORNING BETSY
shower..
just got here and imagine my surprise when reading your post... seems like you mix medical research, science and some psychology all in one but as a few pointed out .. while you point and say how sad our lifetime membership in NA/AA blah blah blah... the cure blah... your fail to say what in your estimation is the cure..
let me let you in on one of the major falisies of your medical science aurgument ... thanks to the technilogies of functional PET scan imagining.. they have been able to prove what most learned addiction specialists have known for many many years....that once an addict becomes an addict.. that need on a psychological level get fixed into the pleasure pathways as well as the pathways that are survival pathways... once we get clean and those pathways that were extra attachments to the survival pathways.. ie need for food water shelter, the will to live.. those extra ones created by the drug and addict lie domant as long as we remain clean.... but the cravings start within the pleasure pathway for the psychological feeling then it moves to the phychological/physical survivial pathway telling us that if we dont use we will die.. (people often report that though while deep in active using... ) but the feeling of overwhelming desire is there even more than sex or food at times... so those pathways once created never become uncreated.... as for your receptor theory that is true of the chemical imbalance and tolerance to a small degree but says absolutely nothing in the way of cure and addiction being a disease... period.....
now my question for you is simple... are you an addict? .. are you close to an addict?... why do you seem soooo bitter regarding you phrase..'lifetime membership" in NA/AA or whatever your words were verbatium... seems to me that I wonder what the purpose of your post is.. to try to derail someones recovery ..
I have been clean a few years... and I know a little something about recovery and the medical science behind it... believe me if there was a reason that I could hang my hat on the say this wasnt for life or that I wasnt really an addict or that I could control it... I would have found it... but there simply isnt.. and the sooner any addict admits it and gets it down deep in there being and moves forward from there just that much sooner will they break free from this DISEASE OF ADDICTION that is for life....
God Bless
Teresa
just got here and imagine my surprise when reading your post... seems like you mix medical research, science and some psychology all in one but as a few pointed out .. while you point and say how sad our lifetime membership in NA/AA blah blah blah... the cure blah... your fail to say what in your estimation is the cure..
let me let you in on one of the major falisies of your medical science aurgument ... thanks to the technilogies of functional PET scan imagining.. they have been able to prove what most learned addiction specialists have known for many many years....that once an addict becomes an addict.. that need on a psychological level get fixed into the pleasure pathways as well as the pathways that are survival pathways... once we get clean and those pathways that were extra attachments to the survival pathways.. ie need for food water shelter, the will to live.. those extra ones created by the drug and addict lie domant as long as we remain clean.... but the cravings start within the pleasure pathway for the psychological feeling then it moves to the phychological/physical survivial pathway telling us that if we dont use we will die.. (people often report that though while deep in active using... ) but the feeling of overwhelming desire is there even more than sex or food at times... so those pathways once created never become uncreated.... as for your receptor theory that is true of the chemical imbalance and tolerance to a small degree but says absolutely nothing in the way of cure and addiction being a disease... period.....
now my question for you is simple... are you an addict? .. are you close to an addict?... why do you seem soooo bitter regarding you phrase..'lifetime membership" in NA/AA or whatever your words were verbatium... seems to me that I wonder what the purpose of your post is.. to try to derail someones recovery ..
I have been clean a few years... and I know a little something about recovery and the medical science behind it... believe me if there was a reason that I could hang my hat on the say this wasnt for life or that I wasnt really an addict or that I could control it... I would have found it... but there simply isnt.. and the sooner any addict admits it and gets it down deep in there being and moves forward from there just that much sooner will they break free from this DISEASE OF ADDICTION that is for life....
God Bless
Teresa
Tersea just saying good morning & I hope you are doing well.Hope you had a great weekend....mj
thanks mj..
my weekend was ok.. and it is over that is all i can say and I am grateful for that..
glad to hear that you are doing well..
Teresa
my weekend was ok.. and it is over that is all i can say and I am grateful for that..
glad to hear that you are doing well..
Teresa
Thanks.My voice is getting better day by day...Ill be yelling at the girls before long...have a great day...mj
Shower, I feel you are way off on this, and you truly cannot learn about addiction from a book, unless it was written by addicts. Abstinence does cure for some, you cannot put all addicts into one category and say this doesn't work. Because it does, I am sorry, I think you mean well, it is just you have no clue regarding addiction to pills, and I for one am not in a lifetime of meetings. Kim
Mdgirl.
forgive me.... how long have you been clean and from what?
teresa
forgive me.... how long have you been clean and from what?
teresa
I think 'shower' just quoted some book her parents bought for her word for word and decided to type it out here. I wouldnt read or look into it too much. The person hasnt even replied at all... Probably gone to get high or something.
Don't worry about it guys/gals.. Just a waste of time.
Don't worry about it guys/gals.. Just a waste of time.
good morning... kiwi..... Hope all well... and your right ... dont go gettin used to hearin that..lol...
Teresa
Teresa
Or maybe it's a cry for help from someone that is very confused......
I get the part about when and why I first used (that's the only part I get) and I actually remembered those feelings when I was reading it. It was that feeling of being overwhelmed. I was so young, married and had just had a baby. Of course lots of people get married young and have babies but for me it was an excuse to be numb. I had no tools to deal with life....
Morning kids...
Love
Cowgirl
I get the part about when and why I first used (that's the only part I get) and I actually remembered those feelings when I was reading it. It was that feeling of being overwhelmed. I was so young, married and had just had a baby. Of course lots of people get married young and have babies but for me it was an excuse to be numb. I had no tools to deal with life....
Morning kids...
Love
Cowgirl
of course you are right cowgirl as far as the cry for help goes but... often times I fail to see how obviously inflammatory posts or in real life.. inflammatory statements and manipulations are ligitiment cries if you will .... I dont respond well to that sort of thing... never did before I was an addict .. didnt while using.. and obviously dont now... if someone wants to know something.. ask.. if they want confirmation of what they think they know... speak factually and honestly .. and let the chips fall... if they want help they ask for that too... I fail how coming to a recovery board and having read post as she state i believe she did .. that she was doing any of those things by her posts... again I fail to see what the real reason for her post was...
I am sorry I dont share at times you level of compassion or patience but .. thats what makes us different and friends ... ( I hope..lol..) if someone comes accross as having all the answers i am inclined to share my nuggets of wisdom with them....
good morning.. and thanks for calling me a kids.. I feel like an old woman these days with the change in the weather here... back really pi**ing me off... but hey thats life right?..
Teresa
I am sorry I dont share at times you level of compassion or patience but .. thats what makes us different and friends ... ( I hope..lol..) if someone comes accross as having all the answers i am inclined to share my nuggets of wisdom with them....
good morning.. and thanks for calling me a kids.. I feel like an old woman these days with the change in the weather here... back really pi**ing me off... but hey thats life right?..
Teresa
Isn't the saying "once an addict, always an addict"! My addiction can go from drugs, to shopping, to booze, to even some silly game on the computer I can't get away from. That's are personality and unfortunately we were born with it.
kansas..
I dont think that phrase actually applies to everything concievable in life or to all types of addicts in the strictest sense of the word... for instance .. I absolutely hate to shop... i hate it... so I dont ever see myself being addicted to shopping.. but.. I will always be addicted to pills... period.. if I take them again.. I will be off.. even for ligitimate reasons.. my body and brain will not know.. 'hey that was for real pain. so we dont have to get excited...'... but I see your reasoning.. addiction often comes from a pesonality trait or characterist that makes us what to run or numb out.. maybe hide from feelings or substitute something for the hole we feel... so that is what these things do.. gambling releases endorphins that are natural 'high' chemicals... so that is just an example..
as for being born with it... I think some are born with it but I also think that some are not.. it is the old question of nature v. nurture... I think in my case I have both.. but i also know others that clearly have no family history genetic wise but were in a situation such as rape or spousal abuse that created a place where they wanted to numb and enter mr. loratab.... so there is two schools of thought.. i personally think it can be both or either... but truth is .. it really doesnt matter much.. the symptoms are the same.. and the outcome is the same.. the only reason why it matters to some is they like to say.. well it wasnt my fault it is genetic... it makes some feel better...
Treatment is the same too...
I can never take drugs successfully again... not in my control... once an addict always an addict.. and i guess if we dont watch anything that we find unusually pleasurable can turn to an addiction esp if we have that tendancy but it isnt an absolute...
Thanks for sharing your thoughs..
Teresa
I dont think that phrase actually applies to everything concievable in life or to all types of addicts in the strictest sense of the word... for instance .. I absolutely hate to shop... i hate it... so I dont ever see myself being addicted to shopping.. but.. I will always be addicted to pills... period.. if I take them again.. I will be off.. even for ligitimate reasons.. my body and brain will not know.. 'hey that was for real pain. so we dont have to get excited...'... but I see your reasoning.. addiction often comes from a pesonality trait or characterist that makes us what to run or numb out.. maybe hide from feelings or substitute something for the hole we feel... so that is what these things do.. gambling releases endorphins that are natural 'high' chemicals... so that is just an example..
as for being born with it... I think some are born with it but I also think that some are not.. it is the old question of nature v. nurture... I think in my case I have both.. but i also know others that clearly have no family history genetic wise but were in a situation such as rape or spousal abuse that created a place where they wanted to numb and enter mr. loratab.... so there is two schools of thought.. i personally think it can be both or either... but truth is .. it really doesnt matter much.. the symptoms are the same.. and the outcome is the same.. the only reason why it matters to some is they like to say.. well it wasnt my fault it is genetic... it makes some feel better...
Treatment is the same too...
I can never take drugs successfully again... not in my control... once an addict always an addict.. and i guess if we dont watch anything that we find unusually pleasurable can turn to an addiction esp if we have that tendancy but it isnt an absolute...
Thanks for sharing your thoughs..
Teresa
Hi,
Well, thats some post. So I'm guessing, once we identify what we're running from or the feelings we're trying to stuff or ignore, and realize we're ok and work on these things, it's then ok to take drugs again?
Controlled using? What is that exactly? Is that like, I'm gonna take drugs, but not enough to get high? Or, I'll just get high once in a while for fun?
Either way I ask, whats the point? Why, if everthing is ok, would anyone wanna get high anyway? For fun? Wheres the logic in that? What exactly would be more fun to do high that one can't do clean and or sober? What is wrong with living clean and sober in A.A., N.A. or whatever? What is wrong with making friends with and hanging with people that are also clean and or sober?
Why is Abstinence a sad thing? That statement alone leads me to think you can't stand the thought of not taking a drink or drug. Why is that? What is it about you that makes you think Abstinence is a sad thing? Just wondering.
Take care............Bob
Well, thats some post. So I'm guessing, once we identify what we're running from or the feelings we're trying to stuff or ignore, and realize we're ok and work on these things, it's then ok to take drugs again?
Controlled using? What is that exactly? Is that like, I'm gonna take drugs, but not enough to get high? Or, I'll just get high once in a while for fun?
Either way I ask, whats the point? Why, if everthing is ok, would anyone wanna get high anyway? For fun? Wheres the logic in that? What exactly would be more fun to do high that one can't do clean and or sober? What is wrong with living clean and sober in A.A., N.A. or whatever? What is wrong with making friends with and hanging with people that are also clean and or sober?
Why is Abstinence a sad thing? That statement alone leads me to think you can't stand the thought of not taking a drink or drug. Why is that? What is it about you that makes you think Abstinence is a sad thing? Just wondering.
Take care............Bob
Theresa, I was basically talking about myself not about everyone on the board. Those are my problems as I thought I stated. Yes, they are showing that addiction does run in your genes. That's why some people can take drugs or do anything they want and never go overboard. Did you not have anyone in your family that was an addict? These are just things I've read and heard about addiction. I'm not going to blame my father for making me the way I am, because I did it to myself, even after watching him die over screwing his body up.
I went back and read your post again and I think you're right on the "rape" and something bad happening in someones life, so probably you right on that. It's just what I have learned. Thanks for your thoughts too!
