I probably shouldn't be posting this, as I don't have much time to hang around and chat, but this is really bothering me, and I need some input.
I have a close friend in real life who is an addict and has been struggling to stay clean. She and I have always been 100% honest with each other about our use, or so I thought. I found out today that she relapsed 3 weeks ago, and although I have talked to her almost daily, she didn't tell me.
I had a suspicion today and asked her what was up, and she told me the whole story. She said she hadn't told me before because she didn't want it to be a trigger for me. I understand that reason to a certain degree, but at the same time, I am upset that she hasn't been honest with me, of all people! Just knowing she relapsed isn't going to make me crave. Constant discussion of her dosage, and how high she is, etc. would have been a trigger.
I know as an addict, like the rest of us, she is prone to lie. I did it, you did it, we all do it. But for some reason, I thought our friendship, our pact to always be truthful, would always override the need to lie to one another.
I am not angry. I am very sad that she is going through this, again. And I am perhaps being selfish for being hurt by her not telling me sooner. Should I be?
Or should I just chalk it up to addict behavior and forget it? I really love her, and want to get past this, but now I feel like I can never trust her again. Is that wrong of me?
Any input would be much appreciated! I will be around for a little while if you have any suggestions. Thanks!
Hey Carol,
I think you may have answered you own questions....It is the nature of the beast, them lies go with the territory. I can put it this way why would mine still feel the need to at times lie when he f*cks up. I mean really at this point what is the reasoning behind it, I know the worst of the worst......His answer because he feels guilty, and like a sh*t.....You know in her eyes she may feel like she let you down as well as Bad feels he does me.
I find this very interesting and looking forward to see what others say. May help give me some insight into somethings.....
Try not to take this to personal.....
You have a great night....
Love,
Tina
Oh had to edit you're changing she may be picking up on that as well....
I think you may have answered you own questions....It is the nature of the beast, them lies go with the territory. I can put it this way why would mine still feel the need to at times lie when he f*cks up. I mean really at this point what is the reasoning behind it, I know the worst of the worst......His answer because he feels guilty, and like a sh*t.....You know in her eyes she may feel like she let you down as well as Bad feels he does me.
I find this very interesting and looking forward to see what others say. May help give me some insight into somethings.....
Try not to take this to personal.....
You have a great night....
Love,
Tina
Oh had to edit you're changing she may be picking up on that as well....
Tina, The difference is, I am an addict, too. I have been where she is, and completely understand. I know that you understand it better than any non-addict alive, but there is still a difference. She knows I have done some of the lowest things ever, and I have lied to everyone I know, except her.
I don't think that makes a difference......I really don't especially with you doing so good, on a roll so to speak. Don't you see the lies started recently, you are stronger than ever. You are different, that is a good thing. Wonder how much she picks up on that, if she sees the changes.....
I really believe this is deeper than the lies. What are her plans, is she going to get clean soon, stay out on a run.....
Hey did you actually ask her why she lied.....hell I would have.
I really believe this is deeper than the lies. What are her plans, is she going to get clean soon, stay out on a run.....
Hey did you actually ask her why she lied.....hell I would have.
Oh,you know I asked her. Absolutely. It was because of it being a trigger for me, she said.
I think what you said makes a lot of sense. We have always been partners in crime, and that is changing now. I just didn't want to see it like that, because I didn't want to think that would make her see me any differently, but maybe she does, and I suppose that is a good thing.
Again, I hate to make any of this about me, because she is in serious trouble with her addiction, and we should be concentrating on that, not my feelings. In the real world, we are doing just that. But I needed to work through these feeling of betrayal I am feeling without dwelling on them with her.
Thanks for your input, you helped me. I am so tired tonight, I can't think clearly for myself, so thanks for doing it for me. LOL
Got your pics, but haven't downloaded them yet. It takes so long on my dial up connection. I have to go and be a mom now. Have a nice night!!!
Hey Carol,
Maybe she is embarrassed because of the relapse and didn't want to tell you? Or, maybe she doesn't really want to stop right now and thought if she told you would get on her to stop? These are some of the reasons I've lied in the past, or kept it from others.
Maybe she is embarrassed because of the relapse and didn't want to tell you? Or, maybe she doesn't really want to stop right now and thought if she told you would get on her to stop? These are some of the reasons I've lied in the past, or kept it from others.
The whole crux of addiction is that pills come first, always. If they didn't there wouldn't be a problem.
When she relapsed, the pills came befoe your friendship - simple as that. Move on :)
When she relapsed, the pills came befoe your friendship - simple as that. Move on :)
Carol..
I know it is so difficult to be honest, while using, because of the sense of shame and letting a friend down. I had friends that lied to me about not using heroin, anymore, and than a year later--one hung herself (because she couldn't kick the habit), and the other O.D.'ed. I thought I should have done more, but all you can do is support your friends through the rough times.
My regards,
deirdre
I know it is so difficult to be honest, while using, because of the sense of shame and letting a friend down. I had friends that lied to me about not using heroin, anymore, and than a year later--one hung herself (because she couldn't kick the habit), and the other O.D.'ed. I thought I should have done more, but all you can do is support your friends through the rough times.
My regards,
deirdre
I wouldn't take it personally, Carol. We lied to our parents, spouses and kids and God knows how much we love them.
My running buddy for most of my life and closest confidant was the hardest thing for me to walk away from when I got clean. We have some contact now.
It sounds to me like your friend wanted to protect you in her own way. That's more than I can say for mine. She felt abandoned and hated my recovery. In time she developed a certain respect for it and once even attended a meeting with me.
However, if I went back out into the life, she'd welcome me with open arms. She'd love it for us to take right back up where we left off. On some level I understand this and don't hold it against her.
I will always love her dearly. It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear one day that she has died.
Take comfort in this gesture from your friend as oppossed to seeing it as a betrayal. She could have done worse.
Love, Kat
My running buddy for most of my life and closest confidant was the hardest thing for me to walk away from when I got clean. We have some contact now.
It sounds to me like your friend wanted to protect you in her own way. That's more than I can say for mine. She felt abandoned and hated my recovery. In time she developed a certain respect for it and once even attended a meeting with me.
However, if I went back out into the life, she'd welcome me with open arms. She'd love it for us to take right back up where we left off. On some level I understand this and don't hold it against her.
I will always love her dearly. It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear one day that she has died.
Take comfort in this gesture from your friend as oppossed to seeing it as a betrayal. She could have done worse.
Love, Kat
Carol
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. You know it sounds like you are really close to her and I'm guessing you two would do anything to help one another. Let me ask you something. If you needed to talk to someone and you called her in the middle of the night, I'll bet she would sit and talk to you as long as you needed her to. Treasure that friendship. Why didn't she tell you??? Not sure but I know as addicts when it comes to drugs,,,,,dis-honesty comes with the territory.
If she was not honest with you about anything else, then I think you should be hurt but you know what these pills can make you do. It would have also been very easy for her to tell you she JUST relapsed but she didn't. She told you it was three weeks ago and that alone should tell you something about her.
I hope you can help her. Just seeing how well you're doing should be a big inspiration for her. You know all you can do is be there for her when she needs you. I thank God that I had people there for me and never gave up on me. I don't know where I'd be if they had.
Love ya Carol
Frank, aka Surfer Dude
Carol..why do you think that you are so special that she should tell you she relapsed? Do you think that because of your friendship she shouldn't act like an addict to you, "of all people?" Don't take it personal. It's not about you.
First of all, you are that special, so don't take that wrong. But you have got to remember that stinkin thinkin as addicts. We justify, we decieve, we lie. Doesn't matter who we hurt. We have no conscience when it comes to using. Could be she didn't want you to know because she wasn't done using for awhile and knew you would take the fun out of it.
I'm just guessing on all of this, but I know how I operated. Didn't matter how close I was to someone. Look what I didn't tell my husband for over a year and he is my best friend and we have always been honest about everything else.
Just my 2 cents.
PS..I just saw on another thread where you thought I was being touchy...wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn't. Everything was and is just fine! Sorry if it came across that way....
First of all, you are that special, so don't take that wrong. But you have got to remember that stinkin thinkin as addicts. We justify, we decieve, we lie. Doesn't matter who we hurt. We have no conscience when it comes to using. Could be she didn't want you to know because she wasn't done using for awhile and knew you would take the fun out of it.
I'm just guessing on all of this, but I know how I operated. Didn't matter how close I was to someone. Look what I didn't tell my husband for over a year and he is my best friend and we have always been honest about everything else.
Just my 2 cents.
PS..I just saw on another thread where you thought I was being touchy...wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn't. Everything was and is just fine! Sorry if it came across that way....
oh gosh - i know this will take me 45 mins, to type (and i won't edit - just like last night when i sad 10 "tears" instead of 10 years <eg>); however - here goes...
you said carol:
"Oh,you know I asked her. Absolutely. It was because of it being a trigger for me, she said."
that's the biggest line of bull hockey i've heard in a long time! she didn't tell you because she ain't doing the next right thing and when we don't do the next right thing, we can always rely on those 2 condiments of guilt and shame to bring a little seasoning to the soup.
when we take the first step, "we admitted we were powerless over prescription drugs, that our lives had become unmanageable."
hey sweet carol - not only am i powerless over the drugs i ab/used, i am powerless over the drugs anyone else ab/uses. and since working the steps, i have empowered myself with a power that is much greater, kinder, and benevolent than any drug ever brought me! her actions cannot hurt you unless you allow them to. you may feel some disappointment but look at what you are dealing with - an addict who is living in active addiction and we all know just how cunning, baffling, and powerful the disease of addiction is! inspect what you expect,
i had a "friend", my "cohort in crime" (isn't that a weird description of a friend - especially since i no longer participate in behavior that could remotely be associated as criminal?) that i had to let know, in no uncertain terms, how powerless i am over the drugs i ab/used as well as the drugs she ab/uses. i did throw in there that there is solution to this insanity and if she wanted to take my hand and trudge with me through this solution, all she has to do is grab it - it's her's for the taking. well...she chose not to grab it and i had to learn how to love her from afar.
fast forward a few 24 hours later - she did reach out and we now share a friendship that supercedes any friendship that we thought existed when we were living in active addiction. i'm equally grateful that i left a door open to her for recovery, as much as i am grateful that i allowed her and myself to live our own lives as we see fit.
this recovery stuff...
'tis a gift.
sammy
you said carol:
"Oh,you know I asked her. Absolutely. It was because of it being a trigger for me, she said."
that's the biggest line of bull hockey i've heard in a long time! she didn't tell you because she ain't doing the next right thing and when we don't do the next right thing, we can always rely on those 2 condiments of guilt and shame to bring a little seasoning to the soup.
when we take the first step, "we admitted we were powerless over prescription drugs, that our lives had become unmanageable."
hey sweet carol - not only am i powerless over the drugs i ab/used, i am powerless over the drugs anyone else ab/uses. and since working the steps, i have empowered myself with a power that is much greater, kinder, and benevolent than any drug ever brought me! her actions cannot hurt you unless you allow them to. you may feel some disappointment but look at what you are dealing with - an addict who is living in active addiction and we all know just how cunning, baffling, and powerful the disease of addiction is! inspect what you expect,
i had a "friend", my "cohort in crime" (isn't that a weird description of a friend - especially since i no longer participate in behavior that could remotely be associated as criminal?) that i had to let know, in no uncertain terms, how powerless i am over the drugs i ab/used as well as the drugs she ab/uses. i did throw in there that there is solution to this insanity and if she wanted to take my hand and trudge with me through this solution, all she has to do is grab it - it's her's for the taking. well...she chose not to grab it and i had to learn how to love her from afar.
fast forward a few 24 hours later - she did reach out and we now share a friendship that supercedes any friendship that we thought existed when we were living in active addiction. i'm equally grateful that i left a door open to her for recovery, as much as i am grateful that i allowed her and myself to live our own lives as we see fit.
this recovery stuff...
'tis a gift.
sammy
Thanks to you all. I should have slept on all of this before I posted. With the new day comes rational thinking and an entirely new perspective on things.
Ofcourse I shouldn't make this about me, I already said that. And I am finished analzing her lies. Addicts lie, we all did it, and no, I am no more special than anybody else in her life when it comes to that. I know that she and I do have a special bond, and she knows it, too. She was just trying to protect me, and herself. It's pretty simple when I can put my hurt aside and look at it without emotion.
I will always leave the door open for her and my hand stuck out for her to grab whenever she is ready to take it and walk the road of recovery with me. In the meanwhile, I will listen to her and pray for her.
It wasn't so very long ago that I was where she is, and I know I might have done the same thing, and she would have still been there for me.
Carol, I'm sorry to hear about your friend and her lies. Maybe you could suggest the Suboxone to her and offer to take her to a meeting with you. I'm glad to hear that you are not giving up on her and that you somewhat understand why she lied to you. You are a great person and I think your friend realizes that too or she would not have told you anything about her using and just continued to lie. Take Care and Good Luck.
Love,
Pam
Love,
Pam
My Opinion, she loves and respects you so much,, she didn't want to let you down. And my guess is, if you really have a heart to heart she will tell you this, She let herself down, and is dealing with that, yet another let down ie YOU, would have made her feel worse. She knows what you are going through, and the love/bond is so strong, that she felt she had to lie.
Remember, she didn't have to tell you anything, look at it that way. It is about you and her, but at this time, it is about her mostly.
I have heard Mothers say time again, I will be there for my children regardless, but we as kids just do not want to let them down. this is no different. You love each other, and perhaps you can help her. You can and will.. :)
My guess is, she is relieved, and is waiting for you to tell her it is OK to tell her anything, regardless, she was only protecting you and herself.
Without going into details, my Mom and I were like sisters, I didn't tell her something once, that I knew would break her heart, and or think differently of me, she came to me and said.. 'honey, I knew all along'.. I am like HOW the hell did you know.. Moms know all.. From that day on, I never kept a thing from her. My feelings were, I didn't want to hurt her, it wasn't about hiding anything, it was about protection because I loved her so much and wanted that respect, as I knew she did all along.. Just didn't see it that way at the time. As I am sure your friend doesn't see now either. But will with your friendship..
B
Welcome back Fla girl..
Remember, she didn't have to tell you anything, look at it that way. It is about you and her, but at this time, it is about her mostly.
I have heard Mothers say time again, I will be there for my children regardless, but we as kids just do not want to let them down. this is no different. You love each other, and perhaps you can help her. You can and will.. :)
My guess is, she is relieved, and is waiting for you to tell her it is OK to tell her anything, regardless, she was only protecting you and herself.
Without going into details, my Mom and I were like sisters, I didn't tell her something once, that I knew would break her heart, and or think differently of me, she came to me and said.. 'honey, I knew all along'.. I am like HOW the hell did you know.. Moms know all.. From that day on, I never kept a thing from her. My feelings were, I didn't want to hurt her, it wasn't about hiding anything, it was about protection because I loved her so much and wanted that respect, as I knew she did all along.. Just didn't see it that way at the time. As I am sure your friend doesn't see now either. But will with your friendship..
B
Welcome back Fla girl..
Ya'll are all so right. She loves me, and the only reason she wasn't upfront was due to her cincern for me. Not too long ago, since I started Sub. in Aug., I told her that our talks about her using were a trigger for me. I had forgotten it, but she hadn't.
Anyway, she left today for Inpatient Rehab. She'll only be there a few days, and will come home with Sub. This is a HUGE step for her as she is like many of us who say "I can't go away! I have kids, the neighbors will find out, work will find out, etc., all the usual worries that us moms have. For her to cast aside all of the objections and check-in was very brave of her, and a big admission of her addiction. She has turned it all over to her HP and quit fighting alone.
I am very proud of her, scared for her, and optimistic. And I feel bad that I ever took the time to think about "me" in the middle of her crisis.
Thanks again for all your kind words. I am so grateful to have a bunch of honest, addict friends who understand these things and can help me get my head straight when it needs it.
Awesome news, Carol!!!
Love, Kat
Love, Kat
The part that you wrote about her saying..I can't go, I have kids, the neighbors will find out.... man, that brought back memories. Sometimes people say things on this board that takes me right back to where I started. I think I'm not suppose to forget this stuff.
Glad to hear she went, Carol and I'm betting your love, support and example got her there.
Cowgirl
Glad to hear she went, Carol and I'm betting your love, support and example got her there.
Cowgirl
Carol:
I have a friend I knew when I was sober in my 20's. She was clean about three years. She was very successful, graduated from USC, always had a great sales job. We lost touch. I heard from her a couple of weeks ago. She lost her job, she is being evicted and she can't go to her family anymore. Her dad is a retired Dr. I suggested she go into a recovery home. She said she can't because of her cat. The disease progressed, she's lost everything, she has no options and she is still making excuses. I haven't heard from her in about a week. My other friend just told me she is using again. She was clean about two weeks this time.
Rachel
I know that many of you have been through this yourselves, or with friends, but I haven't in a while, and I wanted to share the rest of this story with you.
My friend went to detox. They put her on Sub., and told her they would send her home with enough for one month. After 2 days, she told them she was ready to leave, with her Sub. The pressure of knowing her kids were here and there being taken care of by various friends, her husband was having a hard time dealing with 3 kids and his job, etc. made her anxious to get home.
Because of the fact that she has already been on Sub. for one month and relapsed, and all of the above stress issues, they told her she didn't need to go home and walk right back in to the same old life. Very smart people. They encouraged her to go to Inpatient Treatment,,,,,,,,, and she agreed! I am shocked, and thrilled.
This is a MAJOR break from the norm of denial for her, as it would be for many of us. To cast aside all the worries of EVERYONE in her life finding out about her addiction, because she knows her life hangs in the balance, is nothing short of a miracle for this yuppy, suburban SuperMom who I love dealry. They allowed her to come home for 24 hours to pack, and make arrangements at home, then she is going back today for 3 weeks. Amazing.
This is a huge wake-up call to me. If this can happen to her, it can surely happen to me. I am not out of the woods yet, I know, and it makes me want to become more vigilant in my recovery. I am no doubt addicted to the Sub. and would love to stay on it forever. I know I can't, and I am pretty nervous about how I am going to react when I have that crutch knocked away.
I am very excited and proud as I can be for my friend. She has truly decided to quit driving the bus, and she is not one who usually gives up control. This time she has done it completely. Please keep her in your prayers. Thanks!
