I might not be high, and I might be feeling better, but I am still putting pills into my body. The pills might not be oxy, but I cant help but to feel as if I am just substituting a lesser of 2 evils.
Atlas Alot of people feel that way about it.I guess it depends on you.For me Id rather take my 3 subs a day conpared to the 20 Ultram I was taking.For me its the FIRST time in 20 years Im not abusing what Im taking.I can understand why you feel that way but you plan on weaning off it right?With that said I would say no your not just switching addictions.You are usen the Sub as a tool to get clean.someone on here at one time reassured me that even though I take Sub Im not abusing my DOC so therefore I am clean....Hope this helps..mj
What Molly said!
sub is an opiate antagonist - so yah, it's still a pill. BUT In my case it was a miracle pill, because I got clean off pills with it - with no withdrawals. How much are you taking?
skeeter, I'm taking 12 mg. per day.
MJ, I plan on coming off sub. Have you ever been tempted to abuse it? I worry that I will be tempted to abuse it. After all, isn't that what addicts do?
MJ, I plan on coming off sub. Have you ever been tempted to abuse it? I worry that I will be tempted to abuse it. After all, isn't that what addicts do?
Sub is an agonist-antagonist...properties of both. It was my friend's DOC and it has the abuse potential of any agonist-antagonist....my DOC for most of my addiction was Nubain...agonist-antagonist. It only has antagonist properties with a pure agonist. It is still a narcotic, just make sure you do taper off of it because at some point you will have to increase the dose for the same effect, just like any other narcotic. There is no drug you can take to really be drug free. That is just life. I tried them all...all of the pure agonists and all of the agoinst-antagonists and there are MANY besides sub out there. CAS.
Hi Atlas:
For me it has been a life saver. It does not make me feel euphoric. Just enabled me to get off all the Oxy and percs with minimal withdrawal.
Its not about the Pill. IMO--its what you do after starting the suboxene. Aftercare AA Therapy building a support system.
Jeff
For me it has been a life saver. It does not make me feel euphoric. Just enabled me to get off all the Oxy and percs with minimal withdrawal.
Its not about the Pill. IMO--its what you do after starting the suboxene. Aftercare AA Therapy building a support system.
Jeff
What is the difference between an agoinst and an agoinst-antagonist?
Get off Drugs
this migh answer some of your questions.......Shel
this migh answer some of your questions.......Shel
An agoinist is a pure opiate like morphine, heroin, oxycontin, demerol, fentanyl, codine, darvocet, percocet...The pure antagonist Narcan, Naltrexone(same thing) is given to people who have taken too many narcotics and is used in rapid detox usually...it completely displaces the narcotics and send you into instant WDS. The class known as agonist-antagonists has properties of both and was developed to reduce abuse potential, but in reality it has the same abuse potential. Talwin, Nubain, Buprenex or Buprenorphine is the injectible form of Sub and has been around for a very long time. If you use a pure opiate or agonist with the agonist-antagonists you will have some WDS, but not like you would with a pure antagonist. They are all classified under narcotics together because Sub is, in fact a narcotic. This information is taken from medical reference books that I own. I am a medical professional. These are not my opinions or something I pulled out of my own head. Sub is a narcotic and that is why it stops the WD symptoms, any narcotic would stop WDs, though, but Sub can be taken under the tongue and the others are purely injectables. I got Sub YEARS ago in Mexico, but I was an agonist-antagonist junkie and then moved to pure agonists like oxy and heroin. They all can lead back down the same road. The point is to use it short term to taper off it and get all of the narcotics out of your body. That is all there is to it. Sub is not new in any way. The drug companies just found a new way to market an old drug. CAS.
IMO, If it is prescribed by your doctor and you are not abusing it, and you are using it as a tool to get clean, then I feel like you are still clean... What ever it takes what ever road you take to recovery, is the right way, if you use it to get clean and sober and stay clean and sober..It takes what it takes for each person... Love ya..
I will give you an opinion, though. The only drug that can help you with WDs that IS NOT a narcotic is Clonidine the blood pressure med. Why isn't this given for WDs? Why don't you ask about it. I will tell you that part of it is that we still want our narcotics. I know because I am a junkie just like you. Clonidine supreses the sympathetic nervous system, which is where the WDs are coming from. Is it really the WDs we are afraid of or being without narcotics? If it is truly WDs that you are afraid of then let me know how the Clonidine works for you. I have used Cloninde in the past when I was running out of drugs, but had NO intention of quitting..I was just waiting to get more, but it worked great for me, my boyfrind and my ex-husband...so I know it works and I know it's a great way to go for pure fear of WDs. We have to examine what our fears really are, you know. I quit CT and didn't use Clonidine because it was time for me to feel the WDs and face the fear head on. Sometimes facing the fear is less painful than running away from it or trying not to feel it. I hit rock bottom and threw away my shovel so I couldn't keep digging for a deeper rock bottom...I would have been digging my own grave at that point. I only say this stuff because I know what you're thinking, I know what you're going through and I care so much about anyone suffering with addiction. CAS.
Atlas goodafternoon.To answer your question,of course being an addict I was very tempted to abuse it.Having tried it I felt totally crappy so it makes it easy NOT to abuse it.I think with me I was/am in the habit of having a habit so that kinda messed with my mind.As I keep saying the sub is a great tool,but our minds also need to????reprogram I guess.I was so use to thinking like an addict that my mind would mess with me at time & try to make me think I needed more pills.Being an addict Im sure Id abuse Prune Juice if I thought Id get a buzz,so try to get as much extra support(this board,meetings,therapy)to give you that added support...mj
Everyone, Thanks for the information and support. I am just realizing that most of my recovery is mental. Until now, I thought if I could just get past w/d I would be okay. I don't know why I thought that was all there is to it since I have stopped using c/t before, only to turn around and start using again. How quickly I could forget suffering thru w/d. But at that time I was not making an effort to stop using, I just ran out of pills. Each time this happened I convinced myself, as I started a new round of pills, that this time I would keep my usage under control. I thought if I don't go overboard I won't get sick. Each time was worse than the time before. I kept remembering the earlier days when I was "only" taking 100 mg of hydro per day max. I used to be able to take the hydro like that for weeks and then just stop without experiencing horrible w/d. Only fatigue and sneezing for a couple of days. I never thought I would get in so deep, and once I was I denied how bad it really had become. The point of all this is that I now know my mind needs intensive care, and this board has helped me to realize that. I feel that this realization is progress.
Also, I have purchased buprenorphine in Mexico before. I had no idea that it was an agoinist-antagoinist. I would not have even known what that meant until today. I just knew it was a narcotic so therefore I wanted it. Luckily, it never sent me into w/d. The last time I was in Mexico was just a few weeks ago. I was planning to quit pills while I was there. Mexico does not have oxycodone so I knew I wouldn't be using that. I tapered down as best I could before I left for a week. After a couple of days in moderate w/d I found a farmacia with buprenorphine. I spent a ton of money and got as much as I could and took it all before I left Mexico. I didn't know that it was suboxone. I felt ok for 2 days after it was gone. I thought my addiction was kicked. Then, I started getting w/d and cravings again and started on the oxy again. CAS, you just explained the big mystery for me. From there I used oxy right up until last Wed. when I went to the sub clinic. In the last 4 days i have learned so much about sub from here and from the website. I now feel I can make informed decisions about using it. I wish the clinic would have given me some of this info.
For now my plan is:
Stay on my current dosage for a few weeks until I have received counseling and gone to a few meetings.
Taper slowly and continue therapy and meetings.
Read this board because it helps me.
Try to give back to the board because the support and compassion I have received has been priceless, and it would make me happy if I can help just one person.
I have already cut off all my suppliers and informed my doctors.
Try to accomplish as much as I can on all the days I feel good. That way, if I have a bad day I won't have to spend it working.
Be thankful that I am no longer killing myself with oxy.
Listen to others who have been there.
Am I forgetting anything? If so, please let me know because I NEVER want to turn back.
Thank you, everyone.
Also, I have purchased buprenorphine in Mexico before. I had no idea that it was an agoinist-antagoinist. I would not have even known what that meant until today. I just knew it was a narcotic so therefore I wanted it. Luckily, it never sent me into w/d. The last time I was in Mexico was just a few weeks ago. I was planning to quit pills while I was there. Mexico does not have oxycodone so I knew I wouldn't be using that. I tapered down as best I could before I left for a week. After a couple of days in moderate w/d I found a farmacia with buprenorphine. I spent a ton of money and got as much as I could and took it all before I left Mexico. I didn't know that it was suboxone. I felt ok for 2 days after it was gone. I thought my addiction was kicked. Then, I started getting w/d and cravings again and started on the oxy again. CAS, you just explained the big mystery for me. From there I used oxy right up until last Wed. when I went to the sub clinic. In the last 4 days i have learned so much about sub from here and from the website. I now feel I can make informed decisions about using it. I wish the clinic would have given me some of this info.
For now my plan is:
Stay on my current dosage for a few weeks until I have received counseling and gone to a few meetings.
Taper slowly and continue therapy and meetings.
Read this board because it helps me.
Try to give back to the board because the support and compassion I have received has been priceless, and it would make me happy if I can help just one person.
I have already cut off all my suppliers and informed my doctors.
Try to accomplish as much as I can on all the days I feel good. That way, if I have a bad day I won't have to spend it working.
Be thankful that I am no longer killing myself with oxy.
Listen to others who have been there.
Am I forgetting anything? If so, please let me know because I NEVER want to turn back.
Thank you, everyone.
Sounds like a good plan to me. Also, you have to add in there to be patient with yourself, you didn't get addicted overnight and it will take some time.
And get some exersize. It will help you happy chemicals get back to normal, and you will feel much better. Even if you don't feel like it, a long walk can make a great difference in your day.
Peace.
kerry
And get some exersize. It will help you happy chemicals get back to normal, and you will feel much better. Even if you don't feel like it, a long walk can make a great difference in your day.
Peace.
kerry
Hi Atlas;
You sound like you have a very good plan in place.
IMO the besides the obvious issue's of building a strong support system was for me changing my diet. I went from a junk eater to vitamins healthy foods and most important exercise. These are essential elements IMO for anyone to succeed as when we used we abused the $hit out of our bodies.
You sound great Atlas --Have a good night--Jeff
You sound like you have a very good plan in place.
IMO the besides the obvious issue's of building a strong support system was for me changing my diet. I went from a junk eater to vitamins healthy foods and most important exercise. These are essential elements IMO for anyone to succeed as when we used we abused the $hit out of our bodies.
You sound great Atlas --Have a good night--Jeff
Atlas you sound like you have a very positive attitude.I think that is going to benefit you through this.You may have weak moments but if you can bounce back this this kind of outlook I have no doghts that you are going to do GREAT.Hope you have a good nite Im off to carve a pumpkin....mj
Thanks MJ. I hope so. Have fun pumpkin carving.
Atlas..others have told you this, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents. It's no different than any other med that you would take and not abuse when prescribed my a dr. If you're not taking it to abuse it, you're clean. I've read so much about it and if I had known about it when I got clean, I probably would have taken it too. I could never get past the withdrawals, don't know why the last time was so different. You're fine. Are you doing anything for support other than this board?
cowgirl
cowgirl
Naltrexone and Narcan aren't actually the same thing, they are close but different.
Naltrexone (aka Revia) is used as an abstinence therapy. It can be taken sublingually or via subcutaneous implant. It is also used in Rapuid Detox.
Naloxone (Narcan) is used to treat opiate overdose and only works IM or IV. It is also used to "challenge" for the presence of opiates. It is Naloxone that is found in Suboxone tablets.
Naltrexone (aka Revia) is used as an abstinence therapy. It can be taken sublingually or via subcutaneous implant. It is also used in Rapuid Detox.
Naloxone (Narcan) is used to treat opiate overdose and only works IM or IV. It is also used to "challenge" for the presence of opiates. It is Naloxone that is found in Suboxone tablets.
