Krazy:
I thought your use of void was deragatory also but it is definitely your opinion. I believe that being impaired by drugs and alcohol created a voidness in my life that I never want to return to. I also know that same impairment made me incredibly sensitive and defensive. You started this thread by voicing your opinion don't get mad and leave the board because other people have a different opinion. I don't always hear what I want to hear on this board. Thank God. If I only heard what I wanted to hear than I wouldn't have had the courage to change. I do believe that your post was quite possibly written because your way might not be working afterall. Don't leave before the miracle.
Rachel
Wow. Goinstrong, I'm not in AA/NA and am indifferent, but one thing I can say with some certainty is, you're in for a long bumpy road. You're nowhere close to clearheaded. This is more of a hypothesis than an opinion. You must understand that some of these people have some serious clean time under their belts, so they're doing something right considering that the success rate of staying sober is close to nil. They've seen your kind countless amounts of times. Keep your mouth shut and your ears open, that's my advice to you.
Well, we lost another one b/c there's re so many perfect people on here.
They learn as they stay and read - you don't have to beat them down after they only have 17 days - so that way rough - tough seemed not to work. I have said on some it does, on others, it doesn't. There's an easier way to get your points across and be heard.
Glad I had no part of that. I hope they find another board before losing their
17 days.
Jean
They learn as they stay and read - you don't have to beat them down after they only have 17 days - so that way rough - tough seemed not to work. I have said on some it does, on others, it doesn't. There's an easier way to get your points across and be heard.
Glad I had no part of that. I hope they find another board before losing their
17 days.
Jean
Jean:
It has nothing to do with being perfect. Recovery is about life and death. If somebody had Coronary Heart Disease and said I will give up the cigarettes but I'm still going to eat a high fat diet, do you think it is okay? Addiction is a disease and it kills people everyday because of denial.
Rachel
i agree Rachel....
the topics that have come up are life and death...just because people with longer clean times repeat them are not a reflection on the users...just proven fact, in most cases
I haven't seen anyone here come out and say that they are perfect, they are just repeating what has proven in program to work...and not work
the topics that have come up are life and death...just because people with longer clean times repeat them are not a reflection on the users...just proven fact, in most cases
I haven't seen anyone here come out and say that they are perfect, they are just repeating what has proven in program to work...and not work
"If somebody had Coronary Heart Disease and said I will give up the cigarettes but I'm still going to eat a high fat diet, do you think it is okay? Addiction is a disease and it kills people everyday because of denial."
Brilliantly f***ing stated, Rachel.
Brilliantly f***ing stated, Rachel.
matt,
am i wrong to assume your posts about this sounds like your mad or are you just that passionate about your program? just curious i am not sure how to take you and it would help me better understand where you and your program is coming from.
terrianne
am i wrong to assume your posts about this sounds like your mad or are you just that passionate about your program? just curious i am not sure how to take you and it would help me better understand where you and your program is coming from.
terrianne
No, I would never give them cigarettes but if I caught them smoking, I wouldn't kick them out of the house, either by making them feel like they are such bad people, not good enough for our board.
This is my board, too and I want all of the addicts out there on it, clean ot not,
I want them to post if they can barely see the monitor. They are asking for help, not lectures when they come here.
Going Strong posted to CG only, then a lot of people jumped her telling her how wonderful CG is, she/he wouldn't do it that way. Cowgirl did not respond to her.
I think Cowgirl is wonderful too, to the ones who need that kind of post.
I couldn't have done it that way. I listened to the u'standing people on the board and they helped me. I was able to ignore the rest but when I came here, only one judged me. Thank God I have at least 4 months behind me - I was so raw when I found this site - I had almost given up, Had I posted and just been told how wonderful one person is and that I was all wrong, I would have left, too.
Does no one u'stand? Some people can't do it the hard nosed way? I couldn't have. If I had still been in my 30's addiction, I would have rebelled. This last time, I would have just run like crazy.
Simple logic:
THE SAME DOESN'T WORK FOR EVERYONE,
how many times do I have to say that?
If you don't agree, that's fine, I believe in a world where we all get to have our own opinions.
I just hate to lose someone - that is not a good thing, hope no one is celebrating that.
Jean
This is my board, too and I want all of the addicts out there on it, clean ot not,
I want them to post if they can barely see the monitor. They are asking for help, not lectures when they come here.
Going Strong posted to CG only, then a lot of people jumped her telling her how wonderful CG is, she/he wouldn't do it that way. Cowgirl did not respond to her.
I think Cowgirl is wonderful too, to the ones who need that kind of post.
I couldn't have done it that way. I listened to the u'standing people on the board and they helped me. I was able to ignore the rest but when I came here, only one judged me. Thank God I have at least 4 months behind me - I was so raw when I found this site - I had almost given up, Had I posted and just been told how wonderful one person is and that I was all wrong, I would have left, too.
Does no one u'stand? Some people can't do it the hard nosed way? I couldn't have. If I had still been in my 30's addiction, I would have rebelled. This last time, I would have just run like crazy.
Simple logic:
THE SAME DOESN'T WORK FOR EVERYONE,
how many times do I have to say that?
If you don't agree, that's fine, I believe in a world where we all get to have our own opinions.
I just hate to lose someone - that is not a good thing, hope no one is celebrating that.
Jean
Jean:
I guess it all comes down to perception. I don't think anyone was trying to make anyone feel bad. I don't think anyone was telling someone to not be part of the board, clean or otherwise and I certainly don't see anyone being happy over someone leaving, ever.
Rachel
Jean,
I am not perfect, and neither insinuate nor claim that I am. Just because someone is warned that something they are doing is not..prudent..is not a slam on their character or trying to show superiority. People are trying to have others avoid making the same mistakes they did and that doesn't mean always only saying "good" (whatever that means) things. Trying, vainly at times, to make it a bit easier for the next one.
Rachel said it best that whatever was said must have really struck a chord. As far and "gentle" versus "rough" goes, how were people "rough"? And who decides what is "gentle" versus "rough"? The person hearing the advice/feedback?
I am assuming that this person doesn't do AA/NA. No biggie, but if she did, and if she had a sponsor worth their salt, what she might hear from them would make this look like a picnic.....
I know people who, as it were, just quit. No AA or NA, or other programs. They have healthy productive lives. But I will say that they are some pretty tough customers. For them, it is all willpower and thought/behavior modification and those that can't quit are weak...or really don't want to...or irresponsible...etc...
Some of them still use alcohol recreationally, I don't, and neither of us thinks much of it. I was merely stating the most prudent course of action. I respect their choices and they mine. I will also state that they also didn't drink early in recovery.
As I have said before, there is nothing I can say to make anyone use or quit, whether it is drugs.....or this board.....
I am not perfect, and neither insinuate nor claim that I am. Just because someone is warned that something they are doing is not..prudent..is not a slam on their character or trying to show superiority. People are trying to have others avoid making the same mistakes they did and that doesn't mean always only saying "good" (whatever that means) things. Trying, vainly at times, to make it a bit easier for the next one.
Rachel said it best that whatever was said must have really struck a chord. As far and "gentle" versus "rough" goes, how were people "rough"? And who decides what is "gentle" versus "rough"? The person hearing the advice/feedback?
I am assuming that this person doesn't do AA/NA. No biggie, but if she did, and if she had a sponsor worth their salt, what she might hear from them would make this look like a picnic.....
I know people who, as it were, just quit. No AA or NA, or other programs. They have healthy productive lives. But I will say that they are some pretty tough customers. For them, it is all willpower and thought/behavior modification and those that can't quit are weak...or really don't want to...or irresponsible...etc...
Some of them still use alcohol recreationally, I don't, and neither of us thinks much of it. I was merely stating the most prudent course of action. I respect their choices and they mine. I will also state that they also didn't drink early in recovery.
As I have said before, there is nothing I can say to make anyone use or quit, whether it is drugs.....or this board.....
Cowgirl has not answered the post because she is having her carpets cleaned and can't access the board...
and last I checked, others could post even if the thread was not intended for them...
anyone who is involved in NA/AA knows that what she said is a fact, plain and simple...
if i hadn't let the things she and others told me sink in and put them into practice i would probably still be using...
and last I checked, others could post even if the thread was not intended for them...
anyone who is involved in NA/AA knows that what she said is a fact, plain and simple...
if i hadn't let the things she and others told me sink in and put them into practice i would probably still be using...
Terrianne,
I'm definitely passionate about my program. I get mad when I see people getting upset with "old timers" for telling it like it is because they may not like the message. Addiction isn't a moral failing; it isn't a result of a character deficiency; it is a disease that kills the vast majority of the people it gets hold of. Those blessed few who have make it into the rooms, or to this board, are incredibly fortunate and lucky, because without recovery, they will probably die from this disease. Those are the facts. So those of us who come here should always remember that our primary purpose is to help each other not die from this disease.
Love,
Matt
PS In case I've never said it, I have nothing but the utmost like and respect for you!
I'm definitely passionate about my program. I get mad when I see people getting upset with "old timers" for telling it like it is because they may not like the message. Addiction isn't a moral failing; it isn't a result of a character deficiency; it is a disease that kills the vast majority of the people it gets hold of. Those blessed few who have make it into the rooms, or to this board, are incredibly fortunate and lucky, because without recovery, they will probably die from this disease. Those are the facts. So those of us who come here should always remember that our primary purpose is to help each other not die from this disease.
Love,
Matt
PS In case I've never said it, I have nothing but the utmost like and respect for you!
I don't know if this is relevant or not. But when I was in rehab at 15 years old, they were VERY hard-nosed. For example, I was wearing some shirt with some cute little kiddie picture on it and my counselor made me go change. Her logic..."You have an adult disease. It's time to grow up." Man, I hated that hard a** approach. I felt like they were ganging up on me and just hated me. I fought and struggled. When I finally quit fighting it, I started to see their compassionate side. They were in the business of saving lives. And they knew that most, if not all, of us wouldn't stay sober...especially because of our ages. But they planted a seed or, in their words, wrecked my using. "Their" way got me serious. I got out after 6 weeks, kept attending meetings, and stayed sober for 6 months. Obviously, I didn't stay sober but that was my own fault. I quit working my program.
So, I know it is easy to get defensive. But I also know that behind the tough-love is more caring and compassion than you would ever expect from a group of strangers. And that is what amazes me.
So, I know it is easy to get defensive. But I also know that behind the tough-love is more caring and compassion than you would ever expect from a group of strangers. And that is what amazes me.
matt,
thanks for clearing that up, i admire and have the ut most respect for you as well. especially for your devotion to yourself, your program and your fellow addicts in recovery and the ones still struggling. keep up the fantabulous work my friend : )
terrianne
thanks for clearing that up, i admire and have the ut most respect for you as well. especially for your devotion to yourself, your program and your fellow addicts in recovery and the ones still struggling. keep up the fantabulous work my friend : )
terrianne
Jodi:
Thanks for that :-) I know that for me, when I ceased fighting everything and everybody, my life changed. When i was new in AA, back in '85, I was told I didn't know s*** about staying clean. I was told to sit down, shut up and listen. If they wanted to know how to get loaded they would ask me.
Rachel
We just can't lock them up here, and none of us are professionals. We have to find a way to want them to stay. When I founf this board on 5/31, I was thrilled, I had hope. I remember when we were welcomed and some were still taking pills and would tell what they wre taking and then would tell the date they planned on stopping.
It just doesn't seem to be like that anymore.
I know CG wouldn't want a thread about her if it meant losing someone who needed our help, whatever help - not chastising them.
Let's get them first and then they may listen.
Jean
It just doesn't seem to be like that anymore.
I know CG wouldn't want a thread about her if it meant losing someone who needed our help, whatever help - not chastising them.
Let's get them first and then they may listen.
Jean
When I found this board it was Cowgirl, Bob and None4me who responded to my posts and gave me hope. They were living clean and sober. They had what I wanted. Nobody needed to make me stay here because I wanted to be clean more than I wanted to get loaded.
Rachel
there is no way of sorting people by who can take it and who can't....
it's a ludicrous idea at best...
all that the people from NA and AA are doing is the passing the message...whether it falls on deaf ears or not....
if people ceased passing the message on, this program would not have survived, nor helped untold amounts of Addicts/Alchoholics...
This has been going on since the 30's, evidently it has worked for many or it still wouldn't be around
it's a ludicrous idea at best...
all that the people from NA and AA are doing is the passing the message...whether it falls on deaf ears or not....
if people ceased passing the message on, this program would not have survived, nor helped untold amounts of Addicts/Alchoholics...
This has been going on since the 30's, evidently it has worked for many or it still wouldn't be around
I just graduated from re-hab last week, it has been 27 days since I last took any pills. (vicodin/soma).
One thing they did tell me was, although I never had a problem with alcohol (I only dramk once maybe twice a year), it stimulates an associated pleasure pathway similar to opiates and will eventually wake up those dorment receptors, causing cravings........I don't want cravings especially this early in recovery. So giving up alcohol is easy for me......in any event, self medicating is self medicating no matter what the drug of choice. If I was drinking to escape or augment my life it wouldn't take long to get back to my drug of choice.
Paul
One thing they did tell me was, although I never had a problem with alcohol (I only dramk once maybe twice a year), it stimulates an associated pleasure pathway similar to opiates and will eventually wake up those dorment receptors, causing cravings........I don't want cravings especially this early in recovery. So giving up alcohol is easy for me......in any event, self medicating is self medicating no matter what the drug of choice. If I was drinking to escape or augment my life it wouldn't take long to get back to my drug of choice.
Paul
Janet:
You continuously make me smile :-)
Rachel
