In need of some real recovery talk - thought I'd post this and anyone who wants to chime in with their own ESH.
I've found in the last week since learning about my Mum's cancer has been like a fourth step for me in a lot of ways. I'm finding that my faults and flaws are being revealed to me a lot at the moment.
I am able to mentally snake back through certain problems in my life and see where my alcohol has either caused or contributed to the problem. Its been painful but very helpful to acknowledge my faults in all of this. Its also helped me see how much my drinking has harmed others.
I look at the troubles my drinking caused and I am reminded of the phrase in the big book "the alcoholic is like a tornado through the lives of others." (something like that).
I am also seeing how my drinking has damaged and narrowed my relationship with my Mum. She doesn't actually know I'm an alcoholic but I can see the damage from my own side. How closed off we have become from each other in the ways that count. I'm finding that a lot of childhood hurts are coming up right now too - things that happened between me and my parents and I am having to deal with those feelings and forgive myself and them.
Its only the beginning of a really long process, and its very painful and an emotional rollercoaster but in a weird way I'm enjoying it. Well perhaps that's the wrong word - I mean I'm enjoying learning about myself. I've learned a lot about myself in the last 7 days. It hasn't all been pretty but its given me so much incentive to stay sober because I want to be a better person.
You know I had a slip a couple of weeks ago so I am on 14 days right now and the obsession has been removed right now too which is a huge blessing in itself.
Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble I just needed to get all that out.
Idgie
It's said Steps 4 and 5 are the ones that separate the "men from the boys" ~ I balked on it and it was so hard to look at the stuff on paper....I had went to a Speaker meeting during the writing of my 4th Step and the Speaker shared about how he was to his children while drinking....that's exactly where I was on my 4th Step (my children) and I started to have a panic attack in the meeting and get the dry heaves....my Sponsor got me through it and a lot was revealed and it was very liberating....not easy, but so worth it. You're doing great!
Hi VWGirl
thanks for sharing. Isn't it funny the way things work? I went to a meeting last night, was an ID meeting but it ended up revolving mostly around step 4 - seems like that stuff was on a lot of people's minds.
I shared some stuff at the meeting and it was very painful and humiliating to admit to some of it out loud but to do anything less would have been lying to myself.
You know this is the first time in 20 years almost that its not about "me". As an alcoholic who drinking it has always been about me. Now I'm learning how to put someone else first - should be a no brainer really but I'm stunned how those old habits keep coming back and I have to keep changing my focus from "me" and my reactions and problems back on to my Mum and what she needs.
This is a huge character defect that's going to need a lot of work.
Idgie
thanks for sharing. Isn't it funny the way things work? I went to a meeting last night, was an ID meeting but it ended up revolving mostly around step 4 - seems like that stuff was on a lot of people's minds.
I shared some stuff at the meeting and it was very painful and humiliating to admit to some of it out loud but to do anything less would have been lying to myself.
You know this is the first time in 20 years almost that its not about "me". As an alcoholic who drinking it has always been about me. Now I'm learning how to put someone else first - should be a no brainer really but I'm stunned how those old habits keep coming back and I have to keep changing my focus from "me" and my reactions and problems back on to my Mum and what she needs.
This is a huge character defect that's going to need a lot of work.
Idgie
Gidday Idgie
My love to you and your mum.
When i was drinking the world revolved around me good or bad.
Now i am sober there is a whole new world out there that doesnt want to hear my sympathy angle etc, etc
My mum knows i call myself an alcoholic, yet she still blames herself for all that is wrong in my life or anyone else she knows. A lot of my old habits are learnt and the learning is generational, with each generation putting there spin on it.
No matter how much i tell my mum i love her and that she was a great mum she still thinks she is sh#t. So all i can do is tell her i love her every day and make sure that the part of me that replicates my mum learns from all this and breaks the cycle.
Thanks for posting Idgie
Light and love Zac
My love to you and your mum.
When i was drinking the world revolved around me good or bad.
Now i am sober there is a whole new world out there that doesnt want to hear my sympathy angle etc, etc
My mum knows i call myself an alcoholic, yet she still blames herself for all that is wrong in my life or anyone else she knows. A lot of my old habits are learnt and the learning is generational, with each generation putting there spin on it.
No matter how much i tell my mum i love her and that she was a great mum she still thinks she is sh#t. So all i can do is tell her i love her every day and make sure that the part of me that replicates my mum learns from all this and breaks the cycle.
Thanks for posting Idgie
Light and love Zac
Hi Zac
thanks for sharing - yup all this parent/child stuff is a trip isn't it?
Its like you take a thread and follow it through the tangled course of your own and other's emotions not knowing where it may lead.
the funny thing is I didn't have a clue about my own sefl-absorption until I stopped drinking - now I see it in other active alcoholics and it makes me shiver a bit because I realise how that's exactly what I was like (often still am) and how unattractive it is to see someone like that.
Sheesh no wonder so many of us end up sitting at home alone drinking - who'd want to be around such selfishness?
Well the great thing about being sober is I can be aware of that stuff, and work on it and call a halt when that behaviour starts creeping in again.
An OSM said in the meeting last night that for him, working the program meant, each day trying to do just a little better than the day before.
I really liked that.
Idgie.
thanks for sharing - yup all this parent/child stuff is a trip isn't it?
Its like you take a thread and follow it through the tangled course of your own and other's emotions not knowing where it may lead.
the funny thing is I didn't have a clue about my own sefl-absorption until I stopped drinking - now I see it in other active alcoholics and it makes me shiver a bit because I realise how that's exactly what I was like (often still am) and how unattractive it is to see someone like that.
Sheesh no wonder so many of us end up sitting at home alone drinking - who'd want to be around such selfishness?
Well the great thing about being sober is I can be aware of that stuff, and work on it and call a halt when that behaviour starts creeping in again.
An OSM said in the meeting last night that for him, working the program meant, each day trying to do just a little better than the day before.
I really liked that.
Idgie.
Uh, I know what you mean about the realisation of how self centred you are. It is a weird one to deal with. I still am very self centred, I am not sure I know how not to be it has gone on for so long. After one year sober though I am now feeling better in myself so hopefully I can become less selfish in the next years!
Love to you and your mom Idgie.
Love to you and your mom Idgie.
Hey Everyone!
Idgie, yep I know what you mean about meetings, it's like I get in a "spot", get to a meeting and hear exactly what I need to hear! I had so much wreckage to clear up when I first got sober, so I am still cleaning up my past....and even this past year in sobriety I acted out, I really get the meaning of Steps 10, 11 and 12 at an all new level now. Keep up the great work!
Idgie, yep I know what you mean about meetings, it's like I get in a "spot", get to a meeting and hear exactly what I need to hear! I had so much wreckage to clear up when I first got sober, so I am still cleaning up my past....and even this past year in sobriety I acted out, I really get the meaning of Steps 10, 11 and 12 at an all new level now. Keep up the great work!
Hey VWGirl thanks for the gee-up I need it.
I'm really struggling today. I'm NOT going to drink but I'm just strugging with life today, really down, don't feel good.
However, its Friday and that's good news! I have a big hiking trip planned for tomorrow so hopefully I'll feel better getting in the outdoors and some exercise.
take care all until Monday
Idgie.
I'm really struggling today. I'm NOT going to drink but I'm just strugging with life today, really down, don't feel good.
However, its Friday and that's good news! I have a big hiking trip planned for tomorrow so hopefully I'll feel better getting in the outdoors and some exercise.
take care all until Monday
Idgie.
Idgie...
Try and enjoy yourself this weekend...stay open and see the miracles...
I'm just starting on my 4th step so even though there is fear present, there is relief to know that I have women to help me through this....
You're in my prayers....
xoxo
Stacey
Try and enjoy yourself this weekend...stay open and see the miracles...
I'm just starting on my 4th step so even though there is fear present, there is relief to know that I have women to help me through this....
You're in my prayers....
xoxo
Stacey
Hi Idgie! You are such an inspiration and do you realize how far you have come? Wow, you definitely show me how to do it one day at a time!
Guess what? I plan to go on hiking trip with a group from AA on the 24th ~ I hope I don't back out, I really don't like any form of exercising except going to sober dances, lol!
Guess what? I plan to go on hiking trip with a group from AA on the 24th ~ I hope I don't back out, I really don't like any form of exercising except going to sober dances, lol!
Hey all
wow what a tough weekend. Made it through though. The hiking was great, VWGirl many in my group are in their 60s and 70s and put me to shame!! It was great fun though, the weather was perfect, the views were lovely and it was so peaceful out in the bush.
Still heaps of 4th step stuff bubbling to the surface all the time. Last night my brain just when through the chronology of all these interactions with my family, all these incidents kept coming back to me, times when I had behaved or spoken inappropriately and all of a sudden I've got this huge list of aunts, uncles and cousins to make amends to.
Its quite bizarre how all this stuff keeps surfacing. Its good to face it all though, acknowledge it and then work on forgiving myself for it all.
I am also having to face a lot of reality about my extended family, I'd always sort of held on to a fantasy relationship about them all before, this is forcing me to look at how all our relationships really are. Its quite scary how completely out of touch with reality I have been, for so many years and in so many ways.
wow what a tough weekend. Made it through though. The hiking was great, VWGirl many in my group are in their 60s and 70s and put me to shame!! It was great fun though, the weather was perfect, the views were lovely and it was so peaceful out in the bush.
Still heaps of 4th step stuff bubbling to the surface all the time. Last night my brain just when through the chronology of all these interactions with my family, all these incidents kept coming back to me, times when I had behaved or spoken inappropriately and all of a sudden I've got this huge list of aunts, uncles and cousins to make amends to.
Its quite bizarre how all this stuff keeps surfacing. Its good to face it all though, acknowledge it and then work on forgiving myself for it all.
I am also having to face a lot of reality about my extended family, I'd always sort of held on to a fantasy relationship about them all before, this is forcing me to look at how all our relationships really are. Its quite scary how completely out of touch with reality I have been, for so many years and in so many ways.
Hey Idgie
One thing i have found with amends is as long as i am sober that is a start for amends to be working already in others lives. Also a lot of the amends i have made have happened over time and when circumstances and conversation have allowed the amends to flow instead of me rockin on up when i am ready to make amends and the other party may not. And again sometimes the amends and its enormity are only that in my head and the person i am making amends to says what the f are you talking or more to the point worrying about and yes sometimes the amends has been small in my mind but big for the affected party.
Time/spirituality/faith and there being no such thing as coincidence all work together to make most amends a cleansing experience.
As i said Idgie being sober is already making amends via the ripple affect.
Keep up the good work and when you are alone in your head acknowledge the willingness that you have to sort whatever is bothering you.
Light and love Zac
One thing i have found with amends is as long as i am sober that is a start for amends to be working already in others lives. Also a lot of the amends i have made have happened over time and when circumstances and conversation have allowed the amends to flow instead of me rockin on up when i am ready to make amends and the other party may not. And again sometimes the amends and its enormity are only that in my head and the person i am making amends to says what the f are you talking or more to the point worrying about and yes sometimes the amends has been small in my mind but big for the affected party.
Time/spirituality/faith and there being no such thing as coincidence all work together to make most amends a cleansing experience.
As i said Idgie being sober is already making amends via the ripple affect.
Keep up the good work and when you are alone in your head acknowledge the willingness that you have to sort whatever is bothering you.
Light and love Zac
Idgie...
Thank you for sharing what you are going through...Your post is helping me so much to know I'm not alone and I'm having some of the same things happening with me...There are a lot of old things coming to the surface, remembering things of the past but I have faith in others to know that this step maybe difficult at times but it is cleansing and by going through it, I will only be stronger in my recovery so today, I am learning to take it easy, work on it but not to dwell on it and I am grateful that I have come as far as I have and I am willing to look at these things and want to change myself....this is a miracle all by itself...
Thanks again, Idgie...you are an inspiration...
(((hugs)))
Stacey
Zac...thanks for sharing and guiding us...you are a doll! xoxo
Thank you for sharing what you are going through...Your post is helping me so much to know I'm not alone and I'm having some of the same things happening with me...There are a lot of old things coming to the surface, remembering things of the past but I have faith in others to know that this step maybe difficult at times but it is cleansing and by going through it, I will only be stronger in my recovery so today, I am learning to take it easy, work on it but not to dwell on it and I am grateful that I have come as far as I have and I am willing to look at these things and want to change myself....this is a miracle all by itself...
Thanks again, Idgie...you are an inspiration...
(((hugs)))
Stacey
Zac...thanks for sharing and guiding us...you are a doll! xoxo
Hi Stacey
Yes it helps to know we are not alone. You are a big inspiration too. Getting honest with myself is the key for my recovery so I am forcing myself to put it all out there.
I must say I cringe a lot of times when I post, even though its the internet and you all don't know me from Adam its still hard? Why is that?
Anyhoo, I know I must get honest - I think that has been a lot of what has held me back from staying sober in the past. So like it or not its all coming out! LOL.
Zac
your posts are always full of wisdom - its so true isn't it? We can't read the minds of others. I am not at a place to be actively making amends right now, but I am becoming aware of the amends that have to be made. And I know my actions right now are all a part of that process.
When I first went to AA I thought amends meant going and saying you are sorry to someone you hurt. But I understand now its so much more than that. I can make amends to my husband just by being sober and by letting him see through my life that a sober life is better than a drunk one.
Amends are actually very complicated aren't they? hmmm I'd be interested in hearing other thoughts on this.
love to all
Idgie.
Yes it helps to know we are not alone. You are a big inspiration too. Getting honest with myself is the key for my recovery so I am forcing myself to put it all out there.
I must say I cringe a lot of times when I post, even though its the internet and you all don't know me from Adam its still hard? Why is that?
Anyhoo, I know I must get honest - I think that has been a lot of what has held me back from staying sober in the past. So like it or not its all coming out! LOL.
Zac
your posts are always full of wisdom - its so true isn't it? We can't read the minds of others. I am not at a place to be actively making amends right now, but I am becoming aware of the amends that have to be made. And I know my actions right now are all a part of that process.
When I first went to AA I thought amends meant going and saying you are sorry to someone you hurt. But I understand now its so much more than that. I can make amends to my husband just by being sober and by letting him see through my life that a sober life is better than a drunk one.
Amends are actually very complicated aren't they? hmmm I'd be interested in hearing other thoughts on this.
love to all
Idgie.
I still have amends to make...but like Zac described all of us can make a living amends by staying sober one day at a time...I always check in with my Sponsor before I make an amends....usually the way I want to do it is much more complicated than it has to be.....this has been a really good thread! I'm learning a lot!
I like the idea of making amends for sure. The only problem is for me that;
a) I don't see all the people I used to hang round with. It is not appropriate for me to go back into those circles for the certainty I couldn't stay sober.
b) A few of the things I managed to do back in those days are stashed in a corner of my mind because they are awful and I couldn't possibly bring them out into the open. No way. They are things that could only happen in the dark.
When I read the steps I thought great, but then got to the point of telling one person all your evils. That is where I stumble. I can't do that and I can't face the people involved. It isn't cowardice, it is just awful stuff.
I am making amends as far as I can in my own way, with my parents, sister and her husband.
The horror stays in my memory.
a) I don't see all the people I used to hang round with. It is not appropriate for me to go back into those circles for the certainty I couldn't stay sober.
b) A few of the things I managed to do back in those days are stashed in a corner of my mind because they are awful and I couldn't possibly bring them out into the open. No way. They are things that could only happen in the dark.
When I read the steps I thought great, but then got to the point of telling one person all your evils. That is where I stumble. I can't do that and I can't face the people involved. It isn't cowardice, it is just awful stuff.
I am making amends as far as I can in my own way, with my parents, sister and her husband.
The horror stays in my memory.
Hey All
Awesome thread and self honesty that goes with it
Gidday Lacey
There are amends that so far only me and god know of in my life and that is the way it must stay and i found by writing the amends down and then burning the paper and watching the smoke rise it gave me something to see, also i have come across the problem of amends that i know nothing about as when the wrong doing was done i was in blackout and have no memory of what was meant to of happened.
All i can do is stay sober and not add to my amends list knowingly, also amends as it says in the steps should only be done were it will not harm myself or others.
There are instances were i have ripped people off that i will never see again so when i can i repay in kind by making a donation to something if i stole money or donating my time if i stole there enegy or wasted there time.
Try not to dwell on the past just learn from it positively and remember from it if the stinkin thinkin starts up.
We all have pasts that is why for me the amends i made to myself and god are so important and as it has been said by staying sober that is the greatest start of any amends making.
Hey Idgie the cringe factor when i post is because i fear that someone outside of recovery will find what i write and put it up in lights at work etc, why do i fear the truth because that is what i write, i fear that they will see the part of me that hurts and is suseptable to being hurt. And also a part of me still lives the legend i used to be, in my own mind as well as othersLMAO, this is why it is called recovery because i am still recovering till the day i die.
Light and love Zac
Awesome thread and self honesty that goes with it
Gidday Lacey
There are amends that so far only me and god know of in my life and that is the way it must stay and i found by writing the amends down and then burning the paper and watching the smoke rise it gave me something to see, also i have come across the problem of amends that i know nothing about as when the wrong doing was done i was in blackout and have no memory of what was meant to of happened.
All i can do is stay sober and not add to my amends list knowingly, also amends as it says in the steps should only be done were it will not harm myself or others.
There are instances were i have ripped people off that i will never see again so when i can i repay in kind by making a donation to something if i stole money or donating my time if i stole there enegy or wasted there time.
Try not to dwell on the past just learn from it positively and remember from it if the stinkin thinkin starts up.
We all have pasts that is why for me the amends i made to myself and god are so important and as it has been said by staying sober that is the greatest start of any amends making.
Hey Idgie the cringe factor when i post is because i fear that someone outside of recovery will find what i write and put it up in lights at work etc, why do i fear the truth because that is what i write, i fear that they will see the part of me that hurts and is suseptable to being hurt. And also a part of me still lives the legend i used to be, in my own mind as well as othersLMAO, this is why it is called recovery because i am still recovering till the day i die.
Light and love Zac
Good stuff Zac. I like the idea of making amends in different ways, like burning the details on paper and stuff. That is a good release, rather than holding on to the guilt.
Thanks for that.
Thanks for that.
Great Topic Idgie,
Hi Stacey, Vw, Lacey and Zac......I haven't been posting to much but this thread really got me thinking. I don't follow the twelve steps as most of you do but this really hit something inside of me.
Lacey I too suffer with making amends. I too need to leave some things in the past. A while back I emailed VW Girl and she explained the amends to me. I was holding on to sooo much guilt thinking that I HAD to tell everything to everyone. Now I realize that some of the things I wanted to admit to were only because I would feel better. It would only cause other people pain and probably cause me more shame. Deep in my heart I know that all those I affected know that it was me. The typical things that come with addiction.
The stealing for me is what I hold most of the guilt about. I didn't even realize that I have already made amends for all of it in my own way. What you said Zac about doing nice things or volunteering ect. is exactly what I have been doing for the last 7 years. I have been clean from speed 7 years next month. While I was doing speed is when I did 99% of my shameful things.
I did many unspeakable things when drunk too. I still have the same friends that I had when I was drinking....the only difference now is that I am sober and they are not. I realize also now that I am sober, that most of my friends are alcholics. They still like to bring things up that I used to do when drunk. I used to get mad but I am learning to laugh at the crazy stuff I used to do.
Not sure where I read it but VW girl wrote that she used to write down things on sticky notes so she would remember the next day. I can't tell you how many times I did that. Only to wake up the next day and have no idea what any of the notes meant. Spent most of sundays not answering the phone because everyone that I drunk dialed the night before was calling me back. Crazy but common I believe.
I hope you all are having a peaceful day! Thanks to all of you that have helped me remain sober and in the day.
Idgie I hope that there has been some positive news with your Mum. Know that I am praying for you and your family every morning and night.
XXOO Valarie
Hi Stacey, Vw, Lacey and Zac......I haven't been posting to much but this thread really got me thinking. I don't follow the twelve steps as most of you do but this really hit something inside of me.
Lacey I too suffer with making amends. I too need to leave some things in the past. A while back I emailed VW Girl and she explained the amends to me. I was holding on to sooo much guilt thinking that I HAD to tell everything to everyone. Now I realize that some of the things I wanted to admit to were only because I would feel better. It would only cause other people pain and probably cause me more shame. Deep in my heart I know that all those I affected know that it was me. The typical things that come with addiction.
The stealing for me is what I hold most of the guilt about. I didn't even realize that I have already made amends for all of it in my own way. What you said Zac about doing nice things or volunteering ect. is exactly what I have been doing for the last 7 years. I have been clean from speed 7 years next month. While I was doing speed is when I did 99% of my shameful things.
I did many unspeakable things when drunk too. I still have the same friends that I had when I was drinking....the only difference now is that I am sober and they are not. I realize also now that I am sober, that most of my friends are alcholics. They still like to bring things up that I used to do when drunk. I used to get mad but I am learning to laugh at the crazy stuff I used to do.
Not sure where I read it but VW girl wrote that she used to write down things on sticky notes so she would remember the next day. I can't tell you how many times I did that. Only to wake up the next day and have no idea what any of the notes meant. Spent most of sundays not answering the phone because everyone that I drunk dialed the night before was calling me back. Crazy but common I believe.
I hope you all are having a peaceful day! Thanks to all of you that have helped me remain sober and in the day.
Idgie I hope that there has been some positive news with your Mum. Know that I am praying for you and your family every morning and night.
XXOO Valarie
Hi Val...
It's good to see you around...thanks for sharing, I needed to read that...
Stick around...you have such positive input here and after reading your post, I realized just how much I do miss reading your words...
You have a peaceful day too...xoxo
(((hugs)))
Stacey
It's good to see you around...thanks for sharing, I needed to read that...
Stick around...you have such positive input here and after reading your post, I realized just how much I do miss reading your words...
You have a peaceful day too...xoxo
(((hugs)))
Stacey
