Im copying this post, with some additions, because I feel strongly about this and wonder if others can see this side of thinking...................
Those of us who post with views other than NA feel we are dismissed as if we have no right posting by many (not all) here. There are those who are full of bs who oppose NA as Sharon noted but there are those who are not. PLEASE if we learn anything it is to be open to all ideas, and never to be afraid to stand up for what works - including NA -which works for so many (but not all). I certainly hope Cowgirl comes back and continues her support for NA as well as listen to others with different success stories. I liken it to weight watcher's, probably the most sensible weight loss program out there, but just simply not for everyone. Working the program DOES work, but some people simply are just not made to follow it. There is an OA out there as well (overeaters anonymous) again - NOT for everyone, but has its share of success stories.Thats all there is to it. But by all means, I believe NA should continue to be touted by those it has helped in the hopes it will be what works for others. Same as other methods..... We all like our stew a bit differently :)
Hey Donnatwo,
My name is Darin and I am a recovering addict. In all of my recovery time I have never done an NA/AA meeting. For this I was told that I had NO hope of staying on the road to recovery and come Feb/06 I will have 6yrs clean. Everything is not for everybody. On this road we travel in differnt directions, but we are all trying to get to the same place.With whatever works to get a person clean, all that matters is just that:THEY ARE CLEAN! All the best to you!
Darin
My name is Darin and I am a recovering addict. In all of my recovery time I have never done an NA/AA meeting. For this I was told that I had NO hope of staying on the road to recovery and come Feb/06 I will have 6yrs clean. Everything is not for everybody. On this road we travel in differnt directions, but we are all trying to get to the same place.With whatever works to get a person clean, all that matters is just that:THEY ARE CLEAN! All the best to you!
Darin
I love this board...
Soo happy i found it
It was destiny!!!!!
Keep it up!!!
Ali
Soo happy i found it
It was destiny!!!!!
Keep it up!!!
Ali
I agree with you Donna about everybody should have equal respect here, whether you use the 12 step program or you don't. I think what would save arguements around here is if everybody just shared what worked for them and leave it at that. No feed back for others who share on what worked for them.
I've found people getting offended if somebody doesn't take their suggestions. I say it's up to them whether they take the suggestion or not. Just don't take it so personally, as I've seen people here do. Let it go.
I've found people getting offended if somebody doesn't take their suggestions. I say it's up to them whether they take the suggestion or not. Just don't take it so personally, as I've seen people here do. Let it go.
i like to hear how it works for people who dont go to meetings. at meetings they say if you dont follow their suggestions or dont get to enough meetings you will relapse. That is a lot of pressure for me and it scares me and i would start freaking out if i didnt get to a meeting. so hearing that it works for others puts me at ease. thank you!
Hey Donna, hope all is well. This debate really helped my recovery as I use bits and pieces of everybody's opinion. I do not work the twelve steps but I do go to meetings, just not NA meetings. I never would've gone to a meeting four months ago but my thinking started to get lackadaisical and desperate times called for desperate measures so I listened to the wisdom of CG, Rachel, Matt, Kat, Sharon etc and felt that they were working very strong recovery programs and I liked and valued them as people so I started to attend meetings. They were bang on with me. Nobody should be attacked for their brand of recovery but I do believe people should be called out when they are spreading poison and detrimental info, eg( Taking ex to help your recovery is one that comes to mind). As for me, these meetings that I attend are fabulous with people I'm comfortable with and small in size. I don't see how it can be negative in any way, shape or form. So when people make fun of me for attending meetings or comments like "go to a meeting" are thrown at me, I take offence, not because I care what they think, but they're attaching a stigma to meetings that might consequently save someone's life. As well, stigmas shouldn't be attached to any path to sobriety. I believe that working a program works. Whether that be NA or a program like I'm doing or therapy, whatever, any program. I don't believe you can achieve lifelong sobriety with just ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away. Even Bikeman, who works a strong recovery, (and I'd put my money on him to succeed) has some sort of personal program in place. He's aware and he fixes the problems. Tim, as well, works a very strong program and he's no longer a 12 stepper but works a program. I know for a fact that many people need the steps in order to achieve sobriety, contrary to what the "doctor" says. The doctor is the only one dismissing certain avenues to achieve sobriety which I opine is irresponsible, considering he's a "proffesional". Even people like Rae who doesn't work the steps, doesn't dismiss them, she just dismisses them for herself. Sorry for the length.
Take care Donna.
I might add that there are way too many stereotypes about NA going around. Like Firesign's above. I'm absolutely not blaming you Fire as you're inquiring to what happens at meetings but the people that don't inquire develop a stereotype that can't be erased and that's defined as ignorance.
Take care Donna.
I might add that there are way too many stereotypes about NA going around. Like Firesign's above. I'm absolutely not blaming you Fire as you're inquiring to what happens at meetings but the people that don't inquire develop a stereotype that can't be erased and that's defined as ignorance.
Firesign
Personally I think that is unfair that someone who is claiming to help you would put that much preasure of you about it. I have tapered down myself and am still doing well. I think 12 steps works for a lot of people that need that discipline but by no means is that the only way. James Frey didn' t use them, I've gotten off other drugs without using them, ... some people just need their own self confidence and self control as motivation. I get mad at my addiction, tell myself I won't let it consume me, and I'm a strong enough person to where it hasn't since I have realized that. I wish you the best and hope you get through things the best way you can.
Stacey
Personally I think that is unfair that someone who is claiming to help you would put that much preasure of you about it. I have tapered down myself and am still doing well. I think 12 steps works for a lot of people that need that discipline but by no means is that the only way. James Frey didn' t use them, I've gotten off other drugs without using them, ... some people just need their own self confidence and self control as motivation. I get mad at my addiction, tell myself I won't let it consume me, and I'm a strong enough person to where it hasn't since I have realized that. I wish you the best and hope you get through things the best way you can.
Stacey
Stacey:
How long have you been clean?
Rachel
I've went from taking 8-10 10mg every day for a year to only taking my prescribed dose of 3-4 5mg for the past 2 weeks. I finally got fed up with it, I was seeing if I could actually do it without going back but I've done great so far.
I did coke for 4 months solid about 4 years back and finally kicked that habit when I got out of the relationship I was in. However, to me pills are a lot different than cocaine. I feel they are more difficult, but I love a challenge.
Stacey
I did coke for 4 months solid about 4 years back and finally kicked that habit when I got out of the relationship I was in. However, to me pills are a lot different than cocaine. I feel they are more difficult, but I love a challenge.
Stacey
Donna-The ironic thing about recovery in NA/AA is that we begin to open our minds and spirits to everything.I dont know how that message gets so turned around.If it wouldnt have been for my involvement in the program I would have never started looking around for some other things.Its really how I started checking out "A Course In Miracles","Buddhism" and even yoga.I think its real important for people to come on here and share things they have learned in other places.I even think programs like Nova on PBS can say things about recovery.
When I started surfing was when I really connected to a Higher Power.It wasnt at a meeting.Ive gotten some real intense feelings before at the Menil Museum in Houston.There is something really powerful in there.
When I started surfing was when I really connected to a Higher Power.It wasnt at a meeting.Ive gotten some real intense feelings before at the Menil Museum in Houston.There is something really powerful in there.
Stacey,
Sorry I missed the part about your tapering. Good for you. I was one who could never do that.
Rachel
Donna,
I hope that you are not referring to me in your post as saying that others who don't believe in NA are full of BS. If so, please show me where I said that. What I did say was that the poster known as Dante IMHO is posting a load of crap. That is "my opinion" about what he is saying only. I welcome any and all kinds of recovery and I've said that many times before on here. Its not how you get there........its that you got there. You will never see me pushing anything down anyone's throat. I feel strongly about NA but I lead by example .........to me that is what the program is about. But if someone is posting info that is simply untrue and may be dangerous to someone's recovery then I will speak out.
Sharon
I hope that you are not referring to me in your post as saying that others who don't believe in NA are full of BS. If so, please show me where I said that. What I did say was that the poster known as Dante IMHO is posting a load of crap. That is "my opinion" about what he is saying only. I welcome any and all kinds of recovery and I've said that many times before on here. Its not how you get there........its that you got there. You will never see me pushing anything down anyone's throat. I feel strongly about NA but I lead by example .........to me that is what the program is about. But if someone is posting info that is simply untrue and may be dangerous to someone's recovery then I will speak out.
Sharon
I used to be a professional helicopter pilot . Put me in the cockpit of a 747 and I would not have the slightest idea on how to even start the engines .Flipper was a professional hockey player .I doubt that he would be very good on figure skates .My point being that though the good DR. may be a shrink hardly makes him the expert on addiction .Especially seeing so many opposing views by other doctors in the same field .
I respect his views not because he is a doctor but because he is no more or less like the rest of us , an addict. I agree with Flipper in that when somone uses their profession as a sounding board , it is unprofessional and quite frankly , dangerous .
I personally have only been to one NA meeting in my life .I have been however to more AA meetings than I could count . It is the way I chose and it has served me well for the past 8 months . Before I stopped going to those meetings , they had served me well for 12 years .
I have no problem with different ideas on how to stay clean . I just know what works for me so I will continue to carry that message . What blows me away Donna are the same type of people that you are reffering to who bash a 12 step program when they don't have any kind of program other than , "I just won't use ".
When people come in here they are looking for help .I have witnessed several times where somone suggests a meeting and the next thing you know they are under attack .
In essence , I agree with you Donna .It should be made clear however that it goes both ways. Rob
I respect his views not because he is a doctor but because he is no more or less like the rest of us , an addict. I agree with Flipper in that when somone uses their profession as a sounding board , it is unprofessional and quite frankly , dangerous .
I personally have only been to one NA meeting in my life .I have been however to more AA meetings than I could count . It is the way I chose and it has served me well for the past 8 months . Before I stopped going to those meetings , they had served me well for 12 years .
I have no problem with different ideas on how to stay clean . I just know what works for me so I will continue to carry that message . What blows me away Donna are the same type of people that you are reffering to who bash a 12 step program when they don't have any kind of program other than , "I just won't use ".
When people come in here they are looking for help .I have witnessed several times where somone suggests a meeting and the next thing you know they are under attack .
In essence , I agree with you Donna .It should be made clear however that it goes both ways. Rob
I don't usually discuss this subject. I am incapable of debating this issue because I completly believe in the power of a 12-step program. I also believe that NA is absolutly not for everyone. Both sides of this ongoing debate have valid points.
In my opinion, the problem is not NA or the lack therof. The problem is that sometimes people do not respect the views of others. Both NAer's and non NAer's do this. They "stand up for what they believe in." That's fine, but if you do it when someone else is standing up for what they believe in, it can get ugly.
Flipper said if someone is spreading poison and detrimental info (taking ex will help you recover) that he/she will jump in and say something. I think we can all agree that taking ex is detrimental to recovery. However, my opinion of detrimental and your opinion of detrimental may not be the same. This is just an example, I am not directing this toward Flipper.
Just a thought, Atlas
In my opinion, the problem is not NA or the lack therof. The problem is that sometimes people do not respect the views of others. Both NAer's and non NAer's do this. They "stand up for what they believe in." That's fine, but if you do it when someone else is standing up for what they believe in, it can get ugly.
Flipper said if someone is spreading poison and detrimental info (taking ex will help you recover) that he/she will jump in and say something. I think we can all agree that taking ex is detrimental to recovery. However, my opinion of detrimental and your opinion of detrimental may not be the same. This is just an example, I am not directing this toward Flipper.
Just a thought, Atlas
Hi. My name is Melissa and Im a dope addict.
NA / AA ?
Tried it. Gave it an honest 6 month try.
err... ok.. yeah, that didnt work for me.
I met many people in the program who had years of sobriety in their lives and
THEY could not have done it with out AA or NA.
Kudos to them. Truthfully.. the program works for those who need that
type of help to stay sober.
Some of us, either dont work well with that type of program.. or ... can do it
in other ways.
I have been off heroin and cocaine for 10+ years.
NA only around for 6 months of that time.
For me it wasnt the key.
For others it is.
I think, what is most important is that people who want to be sober TRY many diffrent ways, or devote themselves to NA/ AA because what ever works.. gives the same end result.. Sobriety. And that is all we need.
NA / AA ?
Tried it. Gave it an honest 6 month try.
err... ok.. yeah, that didnt work for me.
I met many people in the program who had years of sobriety in their lives and
THEY could not have done it with out AA or NA.
Kudos to them. Truthfully.. the program works for those who need that
type of help to stay sober.
Some of us, either dont work well with that type of program.. or ... can do it
in other ways.
I have been off heroin and cocaine for 10+ years.
NA only around for 6 months of that time.
For me it wasnt the key.
For others it is.
I think, what is most important is that people who want to be sober TRY many diffrent ways, or devote themselves to NA/ AA because what ever works.. gives the same end result.. Sobriety. And that is all we need.
Hey guys. I am out of the loop. Who is "the Dr."?, if you don't mind my asking.
Carol,
Its under the post by Dante. He claims to be a psychiatrist.
Sharon
BTW, good to see you posting.
Its under the post by Dante. He claims to be a psychiatrist.
Sharon
BTW, good to see you posting.
Carol:
Good to see you.
Kysharon, I was not referring to you at all. I was referring to a remark "Sharon" made about some who knock NA that are full of bs about their own recovery and I agree with her. I just dont think ANY method should be knocked (any reasonable method that doesnt include exctasy of course) My point was that Cowgirl and others should not stop posting because their way was knocked, and those who did knock her way should stop already. She is successful with NA as are many, and others are successful without it. I did not need NA to make me look further into myself. Rather I started counted myself lucky that I caught it in time and realized I needed other HEALTHY things to take the place of the pills. Similar I suppose to what NA has helped others to see. It seems people are still here DEFENDING or KNOCKING instead of simply SUPPORTING all helpful methods........................................................
Why can't we accept and respect what works fro some doesn't works for others?
We are all of a differeant make up.
I believe thatN/A - A/A works for some - I respect that and I'm happy for them.
I felt I needed other ways besides this board even though this board got me started and off the pills, I never wanted to go back to lots of pills.
I have been awake since 1:45 and hard to think to type. I prefer to answer my emails but I would so love to put this to bed as Donna said, if possible.
I started going to revovery meetings at my Church on Monday and will be there again on Monday evening. Felt very comfortable.
Also, Psychiatrist did call me back with a choice of 2 therapists and I was asleep this week - b/c I have only slept all night 3 nights due to OA, not even the Fibro. I will return call on Monday.
I am making an appt with my Ortho Surgeon on Mon - try and get these knees taken care of.
Until then IF IT WORKS FOR YOU, DO IT!.Hust ignore the negative people.
If s'thing works for someone else. be happy for them - no threat like - "you may be clean now and maybe a month but not forever." That's what I got - I have learned to ignore so much. Are any of us promised forever, that is what am N/A person told me - had 2 bad experienes with N/A and A/A, not tramatic, just bad and of no help at all. Had I been an alcoholic, I would have probably left and gotten drunk, it was that bad. So, I like my way and it seems to be working for me so my friends are happy for me.
With this being a recovery board, I am happy for anyone who has found their way, however that may be.
Love to all,
Jean
We are all of a differeant make up.
I believe thatN/A - A/A works for some - I respect that and I'm happy for them.
I felt I needed other ways besides this board even though this board got me started and off the pills, I never wanted to go back to lots of pills.
I have been awake since 1:45 and hard to think to type. I prefer to answer my emails but I would so love to put this to bed as Donna said, if possible.
I started going to revovery meetings at my Church on Monday and will be there again on Monday evening. Felt very comfortable.
Also, Psychiatrist did call me back with a choice of 2 therapists and I was asleep this week - b/c I have only slept all night 3 nights due to OA, not even the Fibro. I will return call on Monday.
I am making an appt with my Ortho Surgeon on Mon - try and get these knees taken care of.
Until then IF IT WORKS FOR YOU, DO IT!.Hust ignore the negative people.
If s'thing works for someone else. be happy for them - no threat like - "you may be clean now and maybe a month but not forever." That's what I got - I have learned to ignore so much. Are any of us promised forever, that is what am N/A person told me - had 2 bad experienes with N/A and A/A, not tramatic, just bad and of no help at all. Had I been an alcoholic, I would have probably left and gotten drunk, it was that bad. So, I like my way and it seems to be working for me so my friends are happy for me.
With this being a recovery board, I am happy for anyone who has found their way, however that may be.
Love to all,
Jean
