I have a friend whom attended my home group for years. He was there when I walked into what would become my home group for the first time. He was one of the first people to approach me when I would slink out of meetings without saying a word and without even making eye contact with anyone.
He had a ton clean time, more than I ever hoped to accumulate: 5 years. He spoke with eloquence and articulation and I used to listen, enthralled. I was so unable to order my chaotic thinking in those days. He had something that I wanted.
During my first year, he encouraged me to strike out on my own when I lost my job. What is the worse that can happen? He said. So you go bankrupt. I took his advice and went out on my own. His business went broke two weeks later and he went bankrupt. He went on to thrive in the economic boom of the 90s.
He is an accomplished guitar player, and even toured with some national acts. He inspired me to pick up a guitar for the first time in my life at age 44.
He is an amazing man. He was there the day that I learned that my mother had died. I attended his clean and sober bachelor party when he married.
I attended a mens big book meeting at his home for a while, but the cancer made it difficult for me to attend regularly. I learned that he was moving away from meetings an more toward a pure Buddhist spirituality.
Last year, I was in chemo, but decided to go ahead and withdraw from the pain meds. I called him up and asked him to be my sponsor. His experience as a recovering heroin addict was invaluable to me in setting up my taper schedule and learning what to expect. I spoke with him each day and I got clean. He has been a rock and an inspiration to me literally since my first month of recovery.
I wrote him a note over the weekend to update him on my explorations in jazz guitar. The student returneth to the master in search of praise.
I learned a shocking truth. He had some health issues and last fall began taking pain meds and apparently, after a period of time during which he deluded himself that he was taking them for pain, he realized that he was medicating his moods. He had walked into our home group, picked up a white chip and pledged 90 in 90.
He traded a 20 year bronze medallion for a plastic white chip because he knew he needed to return to basics. He realized that no matter how long we go since our last drink or drug, we cannot change the one essential aspect of our character: we are addicts. We can get a daily reprieve from our disease, but we never get cured.
He is still my hero. I have never admired him more.
August
Pain meds are dangerous for "us." As alchies, or pot heads, or heroin addicts, pain meds (for legitimate pain issues given to you by a medical proffessional that are still just drugs) we have to be oh so careful.
I always talk about the pain pills in aa.....more alchies need to know that they can take us out.
I heard an oldtimer once talk about pain meds after surgery. He said "if it was needed, I would take oxycontin again." Of course you would. On the third bottle, he might realize in his innermost self that he might need a white chip also.
I hope I just made sense.
Kerry
I always talk about the pain pills in aa.....more alchies need to know that they can take us out.
I heard an oldtimer once talk about pain meds after surgery. He said "if it was needed, I would take oxycontin again." Of course you would. On the third bottle, he might realize in his innermost self that he might need a white chip also.
I hope I just made sense.
Kerry
I always talk about my relapse on painpills also. For the exact reason Kerry is talking about. It starts out as harmless, innocuous and then you are caught up in something you have no idea of how you got there. My first sponsor has two years. She had 13 years when we met back in '86.
Rachel
Absolute proof positive...
This disease is
CUNNING, BAFFLING AND POWERFUL!
This disease is
CUNNING, BAFFLING AND POWERFUL!
Hi August,
Since your sponsor picked up a white chip, what does this mean? Can he still be your sponsor? Just curious to what happens in these situations.
Love,
Liz
Since your sponsor picked up a white chip, what does this mean? Can he still be your sponsor? Just curious to what happens in these situations.
Love,
Liz
Liz, generally, a sponsor will ask to be relieved of his sponsorship obligations. The general theory is that you cannot give away much until you have it, and following a slip, the best focus is to be placed on attending meetings, working the steps, finding a sponsor of your own, etc.
Now having said that, I will be having lunch with him next week, and I doubt that much will change in our relationship, unless he has really fallen into denial, and I doubt that since he stepped up to the plate and picked up a white chip. I will have a better feel for this after we spend some face to face time.
It does change a litte bit after a number of years in the program. In the beginning it is kind of a mentor relationship. After years with the steps, it becomes more of a peer relationship. Thus, he has been present for me in my times of crisis, and vice versa.
He will not ask, but I will simply be there for him should he choose to use me. Heck, he may find that I am there even if he does not choose to use me.
August
Now having said that, I will be having lunch with him next week, and I doubt that much will change in our relationship, unless he has really fallen into denial, and I doubt that since he stepped up to the plate and picked up a white chip. I will have a better feel for this after we spend some face to face time.
It does change a litte bit after a number of years in the program. In the beginning it is kind of a mentor relationship. After years with the steps, it becomes more of a peer relationship. Thus, he has been present for me in my times of crisis, and vice versa.
He will not ask, but I will simply be there for him should he choose to use me. Heck, he may find that I am there even if he does not choose to use me.
August
August,
I am so happy that your sponsor admitted again that he is poweress over this disease. I wish him only success in the future and with your help I know that he will succeed. Just another example of how this disease does not discriminate.......doesn't matter how many years one has......for all of us we just have today.
Bless you,
I am so happy that your sponsor admitted again that he is poweress over this disease. I wish him only success in the future and with your help I know that he will succeed. Just another example of how this disease does not discriminate.......doesn't matter how many years one has......for all of us we just have today.
Bless you,
Ive seen this happen many times in my history with NA/AA.
As someone else mentioned, we are all addicts and the only thing we have is a daily reprieve.This is one of the reasons I got a little indignant yesterday over a particular thread where someone was more or less boasting about their clean time.I have a great respect for my sponsor but I can also see that he is human and an addict.All it takes is a moment of invincibility to start up the madness.No one is immune.
Who knows whats in store for this guy? This could be something that changes his life for the better?Ive seen some people who needed that dose of humility to bring them back down to earth.They went on to stay clean and their programs and lives benefited from it.
Its a day at a time.Some keep accumulating many days.
As someone else mentioned, we are all addicts and the only thing we have is a daily reprieve.This is one of the reasons I got a little indignant yesterday over a particular thread where someone was more or less boasting about their clean time.I have a great respect for my sponsor but I can also see that he is human and an addict.All it takes is a moment of invincibility to start up the madness.No one is immune.
Who knows whats in store for this guy? This could be something that changes his life for the better?Ive seen some people who needed that dose of humility to bring them back down to earth.They went on to stay clean and their programs and lives benefited from it.
Its a day at a time.Some keep accumulating many days.
That was a very nice tribute, August. I have no less respect for the guy either -- he is not "less than" any other addict/alcoholic in the rooms, any more than he was "gretaer than" any other because of his 19 or so years. Some would say he can't be your sponsor anymore because he picked up a white chip -- the reasoning being that he can't really give "it" away if he doesn't have "it." I've read that statement on this Board, in fact. IMHO, that's a bunch of cr**, and it thinly disguises the kind of moral judgments in the rooms that keep many from not going back after a slip, or not sticking around if they do go back. He didn't lose anything (in my view); he gained valuable experience to pass on to someone else, and he's now leading by example. Thank God he was able to stop.
Your approach and reaction say a lot about you, in my humble opinion. You see that whether he's comfortable being your sponsor right now, and you with him, involves personal decisions made by individuals with a history with each other -- not by rules or blind dogma. Good for you, and fortunate for him.
Your approach and reaction say a lot about you, in my humble opinion. You see that whether he's comfortable being your sponsor right now, and you with him, involves personal decisions made by individuals with a history with each other -- not by rules or blind dogma. Good for you, and fortunate for him.
August wrote: "He realized that no matter how long we go since our last drink or drug, we cannot change the one essential aspect of our character: we are addicts."
I'll take that life sentence over the death sentence of active addiction any day of the week.
Please convey my congratulations to your sponsor.
Regards,
Gina
I'll take that life sentence over the death sentence of active addiction any day of the week.
Please convey my congratulations to your sponsor.
Regards,
Gina
Last February, I made a rare appearance at the home group that I attended for so many years. I picked up my chip and said hello to many old friends. Funny, we were all so young at some point.
I chatted with one of my early mentors in the programshe had an ungodly 7 years at a time when I doubted my ability to put together 24 hours. I told her that after I picked up a 10 year chip, I ceased trudging to the front of the room every year because it seemed self aggrandizing. I decided instead to simply pick up a chip every 5 years.
She took issue with this. She said that we do not pick up chips and speak of our clean time for our benefit. We do it to be a beacon of hope to others that they can live a clean and sober life.
There was a thread recently pointed out that a new addict will go to great lengths to justify a relapse, and over soothing a relapser, or miniminzing the significance of a relapse is enough to get an addict thinking in that direction. I know when I came in, I never expected to go more than about two weeks without a relapse. I had never managed to put together any significant time in the past, and saw no reason why this would be any different. I did however, accept the suggestion that I put off my relapse until tomorrow.
Here is my simple view on the matter: relapses are not OK, and no one here should plan on having one. You do not get a free relapse and any suggestion to the contrary is flawed. Yes, they happen and no one here has the right to condemn another for relapsingit happens, but it is most definitely not OK.
We do not slip. We generally make a conscious decision to go out and use and that act alone conclusively presumes that we are not living our Third Step. While hammering away at someone to the point of beating them down over a relapse is not very effective, it is equally inappropriate to attempt to sooth the issue out of existence.
I have seen lots of relapses in my time: in two instances, I recall that within three days of the relapse, the addict was found dead from suicide. In one instance, the addict wound up incarcerated for vehicular homicide. In more instances than I can count, the addict wound up without a job. I have seen a lot of marriages fail over relapses. For an addict to get it in his head that relapse is just part of the game is the very height of folly IMHO.
My sponsor relapsed because there was some aspect about his program that ceased to keep him sober. I did not delve into this but basically, he backed away from meetings because he became increasingly uncomfortable with the Judeo-Christian predominance of thought there. He felt that he could stay sober through his faith (Buddhism) alone. He was wrong. His strength, gained through years of working an amazing program, was to find the humility to admit that he was wrong, and to take immeidate steps to correct his course. That is what I admire, and that is why our relationship will not change much.
When we relapse, we do so because we are not working our program as it is suggested. If we work the program as suggested, we gain a temporary (i.e., 24 hour) repreive from the obsession to use. Sorry if any of you do not want to hear that, but it is my humble opinion, strongly expressed, that if we work the program with the totality of our hearts, minds and souls, we will not relapse. Half measures will keep us sober a couple of weeks, or months, or decades, but sooner or later, they fail us.
Those who have accumulated some time in the program should be encouraged to share this fact, and those of you with less continuous time than others would be well advised to listen to what these people have to say. I personally hope that each and every person who reads this some day celebrates 75 years of continuous sobriety.
I was told early on to stick with the winners. With the exception of this dear friend and the spouse of a friend of mine on the west coast, I realized that I cannot remember a single relapse occurring withing my closest orbit of friends, and within that orbit, I have less time than any of the others.
My screen name is August West. I got sober 15 years ago. I have never relapsed. I am proud of this, and I believe that I have a right to be proud. I will try not beat you all over the heads with it this or wear it as some kind of rank. After all, that would be inconsistent with what the program teaches me. By the same token, I have seen a lot of water flow under the bridge and I am not making this stuff up.
Yall can check back with me in another 15 years and see if it took. All I can be reasonably certain of is that I have no plans to pick up today.
August
I chatted with one of my early mentors in the programshe had an ungodly 7 years at a time when I doubted my ability to put together 24 hours. I told her that after I picked up a 10 year chip, I ceased trudging to the front of the room every year because it seemed self aggrandizing. I decided instead to simply pick up a chip every 5 years.
She took issue with this. She said that we do not pick up chips and speak of our clean time for our benefit. We do it to be a beacon of hope to others that they can live a clean and sober life.
There was a thread recently pointed out that a new addict will go to great lengths to justify a relapse, and over soothing a relapser, or miniminzing the significance of a relapse is enough to get an addict thinking in that direction. I know when I came in, I never expected to go more than about two weeks without a relapse. I had never managed to put together any significant time in the past, and saw no reason why this would be any different. I did however, accept the suggestion that I put off my relapse until tomorrow.
Here is my simple view on the matter: relapses are not OK, and no one here should plan on having one. You do not get a free relapse and any suggestion to the contrary is flawed. Yes, they happen and no one here has the right to condemn another for relapsingit happens, but it is most definitely not OK.
We do not slip. We generally make a conscious decision to go out and use and that act alone conclusively presumes that we are not living our Third Step. While hammering away at someone to the point of beating them down over a relapse is not very effective, it is equally inappropriate to attempt to sooth the issue out of existence.
I have seen lots of relapses in my time: in two instances, I recall that within three days of the relapse, the addict was found dead from suicide. In one instance, the addict wound up incarcerated for vehicular homicide. In more instances than I can count, the addict wound up without a job. I have seen a lot of marriages fail over relapses. For an addict to get it in his head that relapse is just part of the game is the very height of folly IMHO.
My sponsor relapsed because there was some aspect about his program that ceased to keep him sober. I did not delve into this but basically, he backed away from meetings because he became increasingly uncomfortable with the Judeo-Christian predominance of thought there. He felt that he could stay sober through his faith (Buddhism) alone. He was wrong. His strength, gained through years of working an amazing program, was to find the humility to admit that he was wrong, and to take immeidate steps to correct his course. That is what I admire, and that is why our relationship will not change much.
When we relapse, we do so because we are not working our program as it is suggested. If we work the program as suggested, we gain a temporary (i.e., 24 hour) repreive from the obsession to use. Sorry if any of you do not want to hear that, but it is my humble opinion, strongly expressed, that if we work the program with the totality of our hearts, minds and souls, we will not relapse. Half measures will keep us sober a couple of weeks, or months, or decades, but sooner or later, they fail us.
Those who have accumulated some time in the program should be encouraged to share this fact, and those of you with less continuous time than others would be well advised to listen to what these people have to say. I personally hope that each and every person who reads this some day celebrates 75 years of continuous sobriety.
I was told early on to stick with the winners. With the exception of this dear friend and the spouse of a friend of mine on the west coast, I realized that I cannot remember a single relapse occurring withing my closest orbit of friends, and within that orbit, I have less time than any of the others.
My screen name is August West. I got sober 15 years ago. I have never relapsed. I am proud of this, and I believe that I have a right to be proud. I will try not beat you all over the heads with it this or wear it as some kind of rank. After all, that would be inconsistent with what the program teaches me. By the same token, I have seen a lot of water flow under the bridge and I am not making this stuff up.
Yall can check back with me in another 15 years and see if it took. All I can be reasonably certain of is that I have no plans to pick up today.
August
August,
What I have found is that those that never relapsed tend to be the ones that are less forgiving.You are lucky and the exception.Dont let it go to your head.Ive never seen one person on here congratulate another for a relapse.Its easy to sit on a pedestal and judge.Someday you might have to step down.It doesnt always mean you have to relapse.
Oh man, can I relate to this one. I would have 12 years on September 17th, now I have 11 days. I had to do the same thing. Man it's hard but has to be done.
Belinda
Belinda
Great posts August. IMO, the biggest lie about "relapse being part of recovery" is that people think it's a loophole, and they forget that once they pick up, there's no gaurantee they'll make it back to the rooms, alive and in one piece. Yes, it's important to welcome back an addict who relapses, but then it's even more important to reinforce that it's NOT ok to relapse, and emphasize how lucky and rare it is that they make it back in one piece.
Wow, what a story and fortunatly one I don't hear too often.....
I think there needs to be more awareness about pain meds as far as AA goes. Because of my involvement in my women's AA group (I'm the only one there that isn't in alky) more women have come forward and admitted to using the pain meds to self medicate.
And that's only because I have such a big mouth.
xxx
CG
I think there needs to be more awareness about pain meds as far as AA goes. Because of my involvement in my women's AA group (I'm the only one there that isn't in alky) more women have come forward and admitted to using the pain meds to self medicate.
And that's only because I have such a big mouth.
xxx
CG
Great story, August. Thanks for telling it. I hope some of the newer posters read it and "get it".
I am a perfect example of the addict who was told relapse is just part of addiction and is OK. I saw the loophole early on and used it at my convenience. I lost another few months, but I learned a lot and I pray to not make that same mistake today.
Have a good day.
I think I must have misinterpreted your first e-mail, August. My respect for your friend is unchanged, though.
I had never heard that relapse is part of the process until I came to this board. I, too, was looking for any kind of loophole or trap door that would allow me to escape doing what others had done before me. What I know works, what I have witnessed and what I have lived. I agree with August 100% because that is my experience. I have friends who I have met on the Program who have 20 years sober. We met in the rooms 20 years ago. They were not looking for a loophole or a trap door like I was. My experience is, half measures availed me nothing, nil, nix. Half measures did not avail me half.
Rachel
Rachel
Cyagirl, welcome back in. You have returned and that is what counts.
I do think that there is a trap that people with time fall into where they are afraid of losing the social status within AA that comes with a lot of time. They want to be seen as the leader, the guru, etc. This is all addressed in the 4th step, and the relapse can be avoided by focusing on what need (social) the addict is seeking to satisfy through that status. As addicts each of us is prone to jumping up on that pedastal, and like humpty dumpty, each of us who does so is prone to taking a great fall. Hopefully, if we are working a decent program, the pedastal will not be so high that our fall includes a relapse.
I also think that those with pill issues should avoid AA meetings that are too into the entire "singleness of purpose" thing: After all, I have known lots that use that as a loophole. In my day, we called it the marijuana maintenance plan, but I think it applies doubly to pain med use.
I think the catch phrase that impacted me the most was said by a good friend of mine who still makes meetings after 25 years: "I know I have another drunk in me, but I am not sure I have another recovery in me." We have to be concerned that we might not make it back.
Gosh, I'm late, gotta go.
August
I do think that there is a trap that people with time fall into where they are afraid of losing the social status within AA that comes with a lot of time. They want to be seen as the leader, the guru, etc. This is all addressed in the 4th step, and the relapse can be avoided by focusing on what need (social) the addict is seeking to satisfy through that status. As addicts each of us is prone to jumping up on that pedastal, and like humpty dumpty, each of us who does so is prone to taking a great fall. Hopefully, if we are working a decent program, the pedastal will not be so high that our fall includes a relapse.
I also think that those with pill issues should avoid AA meetings that are too into the entire "singleness of purpose" thing: After all, I have known lots that use that as a loophole. In my day, we called it the marijuana maintenance plan, but I think it applies doubly to pain med use.
I think the catch phrase that impacted me the most was said by a good friend of mine who still makes meetings after 25 years: "I know I have another drunk in me, but I am not sure I have another recovery in me." We have to be concerned that we might not make it back.
Gosh, I'm late, gotta go.
August
We all see horror stories in recovery and this is the one that shook me up the most...
My first job after I got out of school was with a halfway house run by a couple. She was an ex heroin addict, he was an ex crack addict. I think they both had about 7 years clean. They had built their not for profit organization into about 9 houses for both men and women. They had grants from the county for the homeless, for addicts, and for people coming out of prison. If they applied for a grant they usually got it. I worked there a month but was very uncomfortable. It seemed like everything was a secret. They would go whisper in the next office and money matters were always hush hush. After about 6 weeks of working there, I had to quit. I just couldn't shake the uncomfortability.Just before I left I found a empty beer can in the bathroom trash that was explained away as someone's sister's.
A couple of months later the rumors started. They stopped providing food for the clients. They would show up in the middle of the night to throw people out. Clients were complaining like crazy. The county pulled their contract and the others followed. They were left with a few self pay clients who left shortly afterwards when the electric was turned off. Then rumors started that they had been using for quite a while. Rumors in AA are always around but these turned out to be true. They started popping up in jail for various misdemeanors on a regular basis. Then the felonies started. Today she is in prison and he is homeless. They lost all their properties and all credibility. This was within a year of using.
I feel so bad for them because they were doing so much good for so many people but this disease grabbed them again and won't let go. It reminds me it can happen to anyone if we get complacent. The good thing is when they are done they will be welcomed back with open arms. Thank God for AA/NA.
12 stepper
My first job after I got out of school was with a halfway house run by a couple. She was an ex heroin addict, he was an ex crack addict. I think they both had about 7 years clean. They had built their not for profit organization into about 9 houses for both men and women. They had grants from the county for the homeless, for addicts, and for people coming out of prison. If they applied for a grant they usually got it. I worked there a month but was very uncomfortable. It seemed like everything was a secret. They would go whisper in the next office and money matters were always hush hush. After about 6 weeks of working there, I had to quit. I just couldn't shake the uncomfortability.Just before I left I found a empty beer can in the bathroom trash that was explained away as someone's sister's.
A couple of months later the rumors started. They stopped providing food for the clients. They would show up in the middle of the night to throw people out. Clients were complaining like crazy. The county pulled their contract and the others followed. They were left with a few self pay clients who left shortly afterwards when the electric was turned off. Then rumors started that they had been using for quite a while. Rumors in AA are always around but these turned out to be true. They started popping up in jail for various misdemeanors on a regular basis. Then the felonies started. Today she is in prison and he is homeless. They lost all their properties and all credibility. This was within a year of using.
I feel so bad for them because they were doing so much good for so many people but this disease grabbed them again and won't let go. It reminds me it can happen to anyone if we get complacent. The good thing is when they are done they will be welcomed back with open arms. Thank God for AA/NA.
12 stepper
