I'm a voracious reading, so much time to kill in Dr's offices. I think I read a book about addiction, and it was after that whole Winonia Rider thing, I thought is she crazy, it's not like she doesn't have the $. The doc who wrote the book said it was because of opiate addiction ( remember - she had percs & Oxy, or whatever). So at that time I was younger and more niave in my addiction, so I was able to say: "see, I'm not so bad"....Guess what? Now I am so bad, I have no record, I don't do things like this! Didn't do things.... And if not even stuff I need, It's crazy s*** like magazines, makeup, once a $20.oo bottle of extra virgin olive oil - I DON'T EVEN COOK! I know why she did it now though, and it's what the book said. you do it to feel. I'm so numb, that it gives me a little buzz. And when I do it, it's like I'm on autopilot. I say no more, find myself in the store, something catches my eye, Bam, in the purse. Did anyone else do this? I feel like I'm the sickest one.here or anywhere. Me & winonia Rider. Any one heard of this? How do I stop, I can't even cotrol what I do for Gods sake. I can't even control what I do!
Lola....I did it too.It's just another addiction.It's not that unusual and I even think about doing it in sobriety.
That's why you keep hearing that same mantra.....It's not about the drugs but the source.Our minds are not operating right.
It's a physical,mental and spiritual disease.If we don't work on the solution,we always be trying to fill that void with drugs,alcohol,sex,shoplifting,gambling etc..
You're not a bad person trying to get good.
You're a sick person trying to get well.The twelve steps,therapy or any other way you can start to change your way of thinking is the key.
Good Luck
That's why you keep hearing that same mantra.....It's not about the drugs but the source.Our minds are not operating right.
It's a physical,mental and spiritual disease.If we don't work on the solution,we always be trying to fill that void with drugs,alcohol,sex,shoplifting,gambling etc..
You're not a bad person trying to get good.
You're a sick person trying to get well.The twelve steps,therapy or any other way you can start to change your way of thinking is the key.
Good Luck
http://psychologytoday.com/conditio...ons/klepto.html
Lola,
There's a link to information about shoplifting. It's a disease, listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, just like addiction is. I think stealing completely useless items, like your olive oil, is par for the course.
Have you considered seeking counseling for this and your addiction? This board is great, but it's not enough. We need to find F2F support. And if you're behaving in ways that will get you in trouble with the law, it's time to get help.
Tim is right. What we have is not a moral condition. It's a disease.
Gina
Lola,
There's a link to information about shoplifting. It's a disease, listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, just like addiction is. I think stealing completely useless items, like your olive oil, is par for the course.
Have you considered seeking counseling for this and your addiction? This board is great, but it's not enough. We need to find F2F support. And if you're behaving in ways that will get you in trouble with the law, it's time to get help.
Tim is right. What we have is not a moral condition. It's a disease.
Gina
Hey Tim:
Your'e always there with such a good response. I was just responding to what you said to me in: Help, help..What a relief its not just me (and Winonia), that makes me feel so much better. You still think about it in recovery? But you don't do it. Did you do it before addiction? Thanks for saying I'n not a bad person trying to get better, I'm a sick person trying to get well
Your'e always there with such a good response. I was just responding to what you said to me in: Help, help..What a relief its not just me (and Winonia), that makes me feel so much better. You still think about it in recovery? But you don't do it. Did you do it before addiction? Thanks for saying I'n not a bad person trying to get better, I'm a sick person trying to get well
Hey Gina:
Shoplifting is in the DSM 111R if that's the latest. Are you kidding? Thanks for the link. Yes I've considered consoling it's not possible right now, although within the next month or two it should be. Hopefully, I'll hold on til then. This forums helps so, so, much. I'm so glad I found it! No one else knows about the shoplifting, not even my closest friend for 20 years. Especially, my closest friend.
Shoplifting is in the DSM 111R if that's the latest. Are you kidding? Thanks for the link. Yes I've considered consoling it's not possible right now, although within the next month or two it should be. Hopefully, I'll hold on til then. This forums helps so, so, much. I'm so glad I found it! No one else knows about the shoplifting, not even my closest friend for 20 years. Especially, my closest friend.
Lola,
You're very brave to talk about it then. I think you might find that when you tell your closest friends all your "dirty" little secrets, it won't matter to them. What'll matter to them is that you're working on healing -- and ratting out your disease is a large part of healing.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't have shoplifted over time, but I had my own ways of trying to feel. I used to buy all sorts of useless things. If I couldn't decide between three colors of a sweater, I'd get all of them and hide them from my husband. There was the thrill of the acquisition and the thrill of the secrecy -- like I was getting away with something. The pleasure lasted maybe a day.
I think it's less important to look at what we did -- who needs that kind of shame -- than why we did it. Therapy's been invaluable in my recovery. I'm glad you'll have the chance to go yourself soon.
Love,
Gina
P.S. DSM-IV: Code 305.5 Opioid Abuse; 312.32 Kleptomania
You're very brave to talk about it then. I think you might find that when you tell your closest friends all your "dirty" little secrets, it won't matter to them. What'll matter to them is that you're working on healing -- and ratting out your disease is a large part of healing.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't have shoplifted over time, but I had my own ways of trying to feel. I used to buy all sorts of useless things. If I couldn't decide between three colors of a sweater, I'd get all of them and hide them from my husband. There was the thrill of the acquisition and the thrill of the secrecy -- like I was getting away with something. The pleasure lasted maybe a day.
I think it's less important to look at what we did -- who needs that kind of shame -- than why we did it. Therapy's been invaluable in my recovery. I'm glad you'll have the chance to go yourself soon.
Love,
Gina
P.S. DSM-IV: Code 305.5 Opioid Abuse; 312.32 Kleptomania
Lola-There are lots of things I think about doing today that I don't do anymore.We come in to the program generally beat up.There are places my addiction took me to that I'm not proud.The difference is today I don't feel shame about it.
After I got a sponsor and started working the steps,those clouds of secrets and shame I carried around started abating.But in the same instance,I had to start changing my behavior.
I can't steal,lie and cheat today without facing the consequences and believe me,facing those clean and sober is a lot more painful than when you're f*cked up.LOL
I would have stolen pills from my dying mother in my disease.I had no moral boundries.It doesn't mean I'm a bad person.I was acting out in my disease.
I also believe I have to make amends for my bad behavior...past and present.
Some call it Karma,some call it divine retribution.In the program it's called working the 8th and 9th steps.
Stick around Lola and listen to others who have been there.You're not alone or unique.You also don't have to do this alone.
After I got a sponsor and started working the steps,those clouds of secrets and shame I carried around started abating.But in the same instance,I had to start changing my behavior.
I can't steal,lie and cheat today without facing the consequences and believe me,facing those clean and sober is a lot more painful than when you're f*cked up.LOL
I would have stolen pills from my dying mother in my disease.I had no moral boundries.It doesn't mean I'm a bad person.I was acting out in my disease.
I also believe I have to make amends for my bad behavior...past and present.
Some call it Karma,some call it divine retribution.In the program it's called working the 8th and 9th steps.
Stick around Lola and listen to others who have been there.You're not alone or unique.You also don't have to do this alone.
I really commend your honesty Iola. To admit stuff like that tells alot about how far you've come. No more secrets...very cool.
I shoplifted stupid s*** as a kid, but guess it wasn't something that ever presented itself when using. Doesn't mean I wasn't capable.
I shoplifted stupid s*** as a kid, but guess it wasn't something that ever presented itself when using. Doesn't mean I wasn't capable.
Wow lola, so glad you wrote that do you know I had forgotten that I had done that. I was with my 2 year old son and as I got out of the store I young kid grabs my arm and says come with me they had it all on tape. but I was still trying to deny it. He decided to give me a break telling me not to come into the store for a year, I never went back and never stole again. I was never more ashamed in my life with my two year old saying whats wrong Mommy. I never told anyone but that is one addiction I beat but I wonder if I hadn't hit rock bottom if I would have. So thanks for making me think of a small victory. I will take them where I can get them.
Roxy
Roxy
Lola,
I have deinitely done it too. I think they are all part of the same drive to fill a hole that we feel like we have (or at least for me). Or part of the impulse control stuff. Or wanting to feel some kind of rush. I don't know, but it's weird, and I'm not surprised that there are so many of us that have done it.
That's all...
I'm trying to give myself a small break from feeling ashamed about everything (but maybe that's just more denial), but addictive behaviors don't just stop with our DOC, and that's just a fact...
I know Tim has lots to say about this because he's been doing the steps for so long, but those are just my little thoughts.
SP
I have deinitely done it too. I think they are all part of the same drive to fill a hole that we feel like we have (or at least for me). Or part of the impulse control stuff. Or wanting to feel some kind of rush. I don't know, but it's weird, and I'm not surprised that there are so many of us that have done it.
That's all...
I'm trying to give myself a small break from feeling ashamed about everything (but maybe that's just more denial), but addictive behaviors don't just stop with our DOC, and that's just a fact...
I know Tim has lots to say about this because he's been doing the steps for so long, but those are just my little thoughts.
SP
Hi lola,
I'm Bob, I don't post or read here very much anymore but I was hanging out at home today and popped in to see whats goin' on and your post caught my eye.
No your not the only one. I did the same thing. Stole things for no reason, pointless items. It was the rush and the instant gratification I got of making it out the door. I'd put stuff in my jacket and then take something to the counter to buy, and get a sick rush of paying for something while at the same time having my pockets full of meaningless s**t. It became another addiction. I couldn't go into a store without stealing something. And I always had the money. The only time I wouldn't do it is if I had my kids with me. Somehow that made me feel better about it, by only doing it when I was by myself, to me meant I could control it therefore it wasn't a problem, just something I did for kicks. Thank God I never got caught but it was hard to stop. I actually for the longest time had to force myself not to take something when I went to a store.I know alot of men and women that have done this and share this behavior. I just thought I'd let ya' know your not alone. I don't know you or your story but I'm assuming your in recovery and trying to change your life in a posative way. It's all about change and this is defenitly one of those changes that is a high priority. Being dishonest can be a big trigger for picking up again. A few weeks ago I went into a store to get potato salad and while I was buying it I was involved in conversation with the woman getting it for me. When she was handing me my change I told her I gave her a twenty not a ten. There was no argument, infact she couldn't have been nicer. I realized later that I broke the twenty I had earlier and infact did give her a ten. Normally that would have made me laugh and I'd have bragged about how I got more money back in change then I gave. But these days I have a conscience and really felt bad about it and couldn't stop thinking how she probably had to make up the ten dollars she was short that night. So for me, I had to go back to the store and give it to her. It's all about doing the next right thing and thats what I try to do. I've learned it's alot easier to do the right thing then it is to try and justify and talk myself into believing I was right or somehow the world owes me something and when something like that happens as long as it's an Honest Mistake, then it's ok.
Take care,
Bob
I'm Bob, I don't post or read here very much anymore but I was hanging out at home today and popped in to see whats goin' on and your post caught my eye.
No your not the only one. I did the same thing. Stole things for no reason, pointless items. It was the rush and the instant gratification I got of making it out the door. I'd put stuff in my jacket and then take something to the counter to buy, and get a sick rush of paying for something while at the same time having my pockets full of meaningless s**t. It became another addiction. I couldn't go into a store without stealing something. And I always had the money. The only time I wouldn't do it is if I had my kids with me. Somehow that made me feel better about it, by only doing it when I was by myself, to me meant I could control it therefore it wasn't a problem, just something I did for kicks. Thank God I never got caught but it was hard to stop. I actually for the longest time had to force myself not to take something when I went to a store.I know alot of men and women that have done this and share this behavior. I just thought I'd let ya' know your not alone. I don't know you or your story but I'm assuming your in recovery and trying to change your life in a posative way. It's all about change and this is defenitly one of those changes that is a high priority. Being dishonest can be a big trigger for picking up again. A few weeks ago I went into a store to get potato salad and while I was buying it I was involved in conversation with the woman getting it for me. When she was handing me my change I told her I gave her a twenty not a ten. There was no argument, infact she couldn't have been nicer. I realized later that I broke the twenty I had earlier and infact did give her a ten. Normally that would have made me laugh and I'd have bragged about how I got more money back in change then I gave. But these days I have a conscience and really felt bad about it and couldn't stop thinking how she probably had to make up the ten dollars she was short that night. So for me, I had to go back to the store and give it to her. It's all about doing the next right thing and thats what I try to do. I've learned it's alot easier to do the right thing then it is to try and justify and talk myself into believing I was right or somehow the world owes me something and when something like that happens as long as it's an Honest Mistake, then it's ok.
Take care,
Bob
Iola,
You are very brave to talk to about it, imo...its the sub conscious way of "evening the playing field.." a shoplifter may feel that they arent getting back as much as they give out, or feel that there is a grave imbalance and this is one way of trying to balance things....
it happens to more people then will admit to, and sually when their lives become more balanced and in control, they stop doing it, ( if they havent been caught and forced to stop )
So i dont think its the narcotic that causes them to steal, the narcotic is just another example of them trying to find a balance and to feel better...in a life that is out of control..
'
hugs
Ali
You are very brave to talk to about it, imo...its the sub conscious way of "evening the playing field.." a shoplifter may feel that they arent getting back as much as they give out, or feel that there is a grave imbalance and this is one way of trying to balance things....
it happens to more people then will admit to, and sually when their lives become more balanced and in control, they stop doing it, ( if they havent been caught and forced to stop )
So i dont think its the narcotic that causes them to steal, the narcotic is just another example of them trying to find a balance and to feel better...in a life that is out of control..
'
hugs
Ali
Iola,
U aren't the only one ...
I don't know what it is .. i've stuck everything from makeup, lotion.. to cheese in my purse. lol.
do you see a psychiatrist or a counselor, forgive me if you've already said, i didn't read the entire thread.
I would highly suggest going to one if you don't. It really can put things in perspective
Good luck and big hugs to you
stac
U aren't the only one ...
I don't know what it is .. i've stuck everything from makeup, lotion.. to cheese in my purse. lol.
do you see a psychiatrist or a counselor, forgive me if you've already said, i didn't read the entire thread.
I would highly suggest going to one if you don't. It really can put things in perspective
Good luck and big hugs to you
stac
When I was in my 30's and started using a lot I went through a phase of addictive shoplifting...I feel so embarrassed and ashamed now...I didn't need the stuff, but I got a high from it. I had 50+ bottles of moisturizer at one point in a closet. WTH? I couldn't stop...and really did not think of the consequences....until I got caught. Talk about humiliation. I evidently forgot to take off the electronic tag and went thru the machine...BEEP!!!! OMG!!! Totally panicked I proceeded to make up a lie which made it worse...Are you ready?(you can laugh)...I told the store owner that my pacemaker made it go off(no shame) He was kind enough to not call the police but really yelled at me and banned me from his store. I cried all night. And I never did it again. If nothing else...a good enough reason to stop using..I had no conscience...sad. I have an extremely addictive personality so I have to be careful with gambling....etc..... My piece of humiliating life experience. Don't take drugs...don't steal...don't ruin your life. Sharonn
pow.........bang.........
good shot!!
I can't believe I missed this thread the last few days. Great topic and I have to say that i got some of the best motivation/advice I have ever heard from Bob. And I don't even think he was trying to give it, but we'll get there.
I never stole anything while I was using. In fact. I've almost never shoplifted in my life. I was too busy doing other things wrong. Anyway, Gina summed it up best for me:
I'm not saying that I wouldn't have shoplifted over time, but I had my own ways of trying to feel. I used to buy all sorts of useless things. If I couldn't decide between three colors of a sweater, I'd get all of them and hide them from my husband. There was the thrill of the acquisition and the thrill of the secrecy -- like I was getting away with something. The pleasure lasted maybe a day.
Let me see, I have more tools in my shop than I could ever possibly need, I built two complete custom cars and have one HELL of a sweet daily driver truck that might as well be a show vehicle, clothes, shoes, electronic gadgets that I never use...........
Yeah, I understand the impulse and the need to feel like you are in control of at least some small part of your life when in actuallity you are not.
Anyway, I think it is all part of the addiction.
Thanks Bob for these words. I am going to ponder/meditate/stew on these for a few long nights:
It's all about doing the next right thing and thats what I try to do.
peace
peace
peace
peaceout
dtroitj
good shot!!
I can't believe I missed this thread the last few days. Great topic and I have to say that i got some of the best motivation/advice I have ever heard from Bob. And I don't even think he was trying to give it, but we'll get there.
I never stole anything while I was using. In fact. I've almost never shoplifted in my life. I was too busy doing other things wrong. Anyway, Gina summed it up best for me:
I'm not saying that I wouldn't have shoplifted over time, but I had my own ways of trying to feel. I used to buy all sorts of useless things. If I couldn't decide between three colors of a sweater, I'd get all of them and hide them from my husband. There was the thrill of the acquisition and the thrill of the secrecy -- like I was getting away with something. The pleasure lasted maybe a day.
Let me see, I have more tools in my shop than I could ever possibly need, I built two complete custom cars and have one HELL of a sweet daily driver truck that might as well be a show vehicle, clothes, shoes, electronic gadgets that I never use...........
Yeah, I understand the impulse and the need to feel like you are in control of at least some small part of your life when in actuallity you are not.
Anyway, I think it is all part of the addiction.
Thanks Bob for these words. I am going to ponder/meditate/stew on these for a few long nights:
It's all about doing the next right thing and thats what I try to do.
peace
peace
peace
peaceout
dtroitj
Gina
great link thanks for posting it..Psychology Today is one of my favourite magazines..
I dont mean to correct you but i believe that stealing or Kleptomania ISNT a "DISEASE," but rather a "DISORDER"....( not yelling just want the words to stand out..lol)
Anyway, great link, and to Iola, i think you are really getting very honest with yourself and are very brave to talk about this so openly...you are probably helping a lot of people by doing so..by making them think of things they do that they dont like to, which is what got most of us in trouble in the first place...
big hugs
Ali
great link thanks for posting it..Psychology Today is one of my favourite magazines..
I dont mean to correct you but i believe that stealing or Kleptomania ISNT a "DISEASE," but rather a "DISORDER"....( not yelling just want the words to stand out..lol)
Anyway, great link, and to Iola, i think you are really getting very honest with yourself and are very brave to talk about this so openly...you are probably helping a lot of people by doing so..by making them think of things they do that they dont like to, which is what got most of us in trouble in the first place...
big hugs
Ali
lola, i have found myself doing the samething, shoplifting, only on oxys, i could not understand, way, i had a problem with it, over 20years ago, but stoped when i went thro recovory, but for the last 6months have gone back to old habits, and i new it had to have somthing to do with the meds, way now, so when i read your post it was good to here im not the only one, i have not sherd this with enyone, becuse off shame, my hubby noesknow, and is vary pissed at me, and its like you said its things i don,t need, most off the time. thanks for the post karen, ps, im also going throu withdrul from those oxys, its been 6days today, keep up the good work, karen.
When I was 14 and we had no food in the house, I stole a roast beef from the grocery store. My brother shoved it down my pants. I was the only 14 year old who looked like he had a prostrate problem.
Karen states-
I don't think the meds themselves make you shoplift because after almost 3 years of sobriety I still get the urge occasionally.
We don't become saints just because we get clean.Even actively working on myself ,old behaviors rear their ugly head.If I'm stressed or find myself angry,lonely and tired,acting out in varoius ways enters my head.
Random sex,drugs,stealing,raging,fsmoking a cigarette,fill in the __________.
Anything that will give me a rush.I will admit that the drugs are not as much of an issue as the others.When I start my rationalizing,I feel like going for the addictions with the less damage control........Sex comes to mind.
Danny-I remember doing that when I was a young hippie and refused to work.I lived in a commune and we each took turns looting the local grocery store.
It was usually fueled by some very magical mushroom tea.LOL
| QUOTE |
| and i new it had to have somthing to do with the meds |
I don't think the meds themselves make you shoplift because after almost 3 years of sobriety I still get the urge occasionally.
We don't become saints just because we get clean.Even actively working on myself ,old behaviors rear their ugly head.If I'm stressed or find myself angry,lonely and tired,acting out in varoius ways enters my head.
Random sex,drugs,stealing,raging,fsmoking a cigarette,fill in the __________.
Anything that will give me a rush.I will admit that the drugs are not as much of an issue as the others.When I start my rationalizing,I feel like going for the addictions with the less damage control........Sex comes to mind.
Danny-I remember doing that when I was a young hippie and refused to work.I lived in a commune and we each took turns looting the local grocery store.
It was usually fueled by some very magical mushroom tea.LOL
Ali,
I think the distinction between a disease and a disorder is largely a philosophical one and will continue to evolve as ignorance is dispelled by scientific advances.
I found this on the web. It's a straight lift so the host of spelling and grammatical errors belong to the author. It's just an opinion, but one which I happen to share.
"This is just one humble doctor's opinion. The DSM IV is a matter of politics. In medicine, us doctors love a list of criteria to label a patient with a diagnosis. That was the reason behind the DSM IV, to give a list a criteria to precisely diagnosis a patient with a disease. Unforunately, people do not fit convinently into separate, narrow diagnosis. People can have features of depression and anxiety and schizophrenia. I have said this in the past, but diagnotic labels are for doctors ... not patients. Don't get bogged down in labels. The goal is to get better .... 100% better ... no symptoms. If it takes an a combination of medications, so be it.
Psychiatric illnesses are rooted in biological disturbances. Just like diabetes and hypertension, psychiatric illness is biologic as well. There are hundreds of studies to prove that patients with psychiatric illness have hormonal abnormalities and brain structure changes. Unforunately, our knowledge of the brain is limited .... we know of about 12 neurotranmiters in the brain when their is approximately 200 total. It is easy for some people to simply attribute mental illness as a character flaw or personality problem. People do this out of fear, because deep inside they know if mental illness is biologic they are susceptable to depression/anxiety/schizophrenia like everyone else.
Summary (1) psychiatry illness is biologic (2) don't get bogged down in labels, just find the medication that works for you (3) know every day we are getting closer to solving mental illness puzzle
Gina
I think the distinction between a disease and a disorder is largely a philosophical one and will continue to evolve as ignorance is dispelled by scientific advances.
I found this on the web. It's a straight lift so the host of spelling and grammatical errors belong to the author. It's just an opinion, but one which I happen to share.
"This is just one humble doctor's opinion. The DSM IV is a matter of politics. In medicine, us doctors love a list of criteria to label a patient with a diagnosis. That was the reason behind the DSM IV, to give a list a criteria to precisely diagnosis a patient with a disease. Unforunately, people do not fit convinently into separate, narrow diagnosis. People can have features of depression and anxiety and schizophrenia. I have said this in the past, but diagnotic labels are for doctors ... not patients. Don't get bogged down in labels. The goal is to get better .... 100% better ... no symptoms. If it takes an a combination of medications, so be it.
Psychiatric illnesses are rooted in biological disturbances. Just like diabetes and hypertension, psychiatric illness is biologic as well. There are hundreds of studies to prove that patients with psychiatric illness have hormonal abnormalities and brain structure changes. Unforunately, our knowledge of the brain is limited .... we know of about 12 neurotranmiters in the brain when their is approximately 200 total. It is easy for some people to simply attribute mental illness as a character flaw or personality problem. People do this out of fear, because deep inside they know if mental illness is biologic they are susceptable to depression/anxiety/schizophrenia like everyone else.
Summary (1) psychiatry illness is biologic (2) don't get bogged down in labels, just find the medication that works for you (3) know every day we are getting closer to solving mental illness puzzle
Gina
