Hi all, good morning.........
This was a topic that was discussed at my NA meeting last night, which I briefly spoke on and kind of wanted to continue the 'discussion' to the board here, kind of in search of your thoughts, opinions, insight, etc. etc.
I am 10+ months clean, and there are days when I still somewhat struggle with this one. Yes, I realize and thought I accepted that fact that I do definitely have a disease, this disease of addiction. I am going to die with this disease, BUT it is NOT going to kill me - big difference. I also realize that this disease is so much more than just drug use/abuse. Don't know about you folk, but I found qutting the drugs was the easy part. Changing all the other crap in my life - the thoughts, acting out, stinking thinking, behaviours - was, and still is the difficult part. Funny, I quit the drugs, but everything else stayed the same.
I am also still in the process of working step one (I'm slow), but as my step work and journal will attest to this (written tons about this) I have a tough time some days calling my addiction a 'disease', and I'll explain what I mean by that. To me (and maybe only to me), calling it a disease is 'cop out', a 'crutch', or just a plain excuse. Sure we are not responsible for our disease, getting sick or becoming addicted (that's what they say, but are we??), but we are responsible for our recovery (something I believe 150% in). The word that keeps popping in my head here is "stigma" - there's always a stigma attached to a disease, but maybe not in this case. If someone has cancer or any other disease, most people feel sorry or sad for those people, correct? Well who the hell feels sad for someone with the DISEASE of addiction? (generally speaking) It's just not the same. Maybe my addict mind should just stop disecting these types of things (yeah right - I wish), but I feeI really need to get a good grip on this in order to proceed and move on with my recovery.
So I'd appreciate any insight, your thoughts, opinions - as I'd really love to get a good 'session' going here as I feel there is a lot I can learn and pick up from here, and who knows - you might feel the same.
Thanks, and God Bless. Love you all.
Chris
Chris, just had the same discussion with a client. She took in one of her son's friends to detox him off of meth. His parents kicked him out. He is drug free now for 6 months. Stigma? Heii yah...If your son had diabetes would you kick him out? No you would get him help or do whatever is needed.
It is always a struggle with stigma.
It is always a struggle with stigma.
Wow......wiverseen......don't even know the fellow, but my heart goes out to him. And very good point.......but very sad at the same time. Something we gotta learn to deal with I guess??? I dunno....wish I had the answers......does anyone??
personally, i don't want anyone feeling sad or sorry for me over anything. i dont know maybe it was the way i was brought up, my niece was just diagnosed with cancer she doesnt want anyone feeling sorry for her either. but thats just me.
although i would not like to be looked down upon because i have a disease of addiction as opposed to diabetes or cancer. but thats just society. i have accepted that and moved on.
terrianne
although i would not like to be looked down upon because i have a disease of addiction as opposed to diabetes or cancer. but thats just society. i have accepted that and moved on.
terrianne
It's not a matter though (at least to me) that I want people to feel sorry for me (I agree with you), the topic is about calling addicton a disease, and comparing to other diseases........
Thank you chris for this thought provoking discussion..
ahhh a disease... well a cop out.. I have heard that sooo many times.... well yes there is a ton of medical evidence to suggest that this is infact a disease not unlike diabetes or heart disease....why we get it and someone else doesnt when we take the same pills...or they eat the same things as with heart disease.. that in lies that mystery of our chemisty and all... but a disease the same.. a cop out .. well only if we leave out the second part of the equation... the recovery or limiting the damage... that isnt any different than diabetes though not as popular stance as picking it out in the addict... let me explain... in the disease of diabetis it is common knowledge that if untreated or controled.. it will lead to blindness, kidney failure, amputation not before there is infection and suffering for the diabetic as well as the family... but here the diabetic gets all the sympathy even though they didnt do two hoots or maybe one hoot.. to help themselves by controling diet and exercise.. after all they have a disease.. right?... what about there family they suffer just as much if not more than this person once the damage starts who do you think has to take care of them when they choose not to take care of there disease in the long run.... they choose not to eat right... now this is just an example... but with the disease of addiction same applies... we choose to either do the treatment get clean and limit the damage ... or not.... but no one feels sorry for us for the disease only our families for putting up with us... why is it different.... ?.. because too many of us in the past has used this new revelation as a cop out... 'its a disease'... It isnt my fault.... maybe not but the recovery is .. just like the diabetic or the person with three heartattacks... they have a responsiblity to eat right and expercise just like we have a responsiblity to our recovery....
to become complacient and rely on our morals... or lack of and tout that we have a disease hurts us all.... the chemisty of the disease makes it hard... that pathway to pleasure and life/death makes it hard as hell when it tellls us sometimes that if we dont use we will die.. but we still have to fight it... we have to see that we have to talk to someone... reach out and just not use.... plain and simple.... we dont HAVE to know why we are an addict... would help explain things... but it isnt a prerequsite to recovery... just got to know and believe that no matter what we CAN NOT USE... cant not control it ... period...
it is a disease and when we tell our families dont be afraid to say that but be quick to say and that isnt my fault that my use turned into addiction and some dont ... but my recovery is my responsibility now that I know and I take responsiblity and I am getting help..... period... that is really all we can do to educate... action really do speak louder than words but I believe we have to have both.... the public stigma used to be much worse... but with time we all can work miracles...
I dont know if that is what you wanted.. chris but that is my opinion... you cant leave out the second part of the equation... and people dont change over night... and at first that phrase felt like a cop out to me too.. until I realized it didnt mean that I was copping out it just meant that I was taking full responsiblity for what was my responsiblity and not for what wasnt....
Teresa
ahhh a disease... well a cop out.. I have heard that sooo many times.... well yes there is a ton of medical evidence to suggest that this is infact a disease not unlike diabetes or heart disease....why we get it and someone else doesnt when we take the same pills...or they eat the same things as with heart disease.. that in lies that mystery of our chemisty and all... but a disease the same.. a cop out .. well only if we leave out the second part of the equation... the recovery or limiting the damage... that isnt any different than diabetes though not as popular stance as picking it out in the addict... let me explain... in the disease of diabetis it is common knowledge that if untreated or controled.. it will lead to blindness, kidney failure, amputation not before there is infection and suffering for the diabetic as well as the family... but here the diabetic gets all the sympathy even though they didnt do two hoots or maybe one hoot.. to help themselves by controling diet and exercise.. after all they have a disease.. right?... what about there family they suffer just as much if not more than this person once the damage starts who do you think has to take care of them when they choose not to take care of there disease in the long run.... they choose not to eat right... now this is just an example... but with the disease of addiction same applies... we choose to either do the treatment get clean and limit the damage ... or not.... but no one feels sorry for us for the disease only our families for putting up with us... why is it different.... ?.. because too many of us in the past has used this new revelation as a cop out... 'its a disease'... It isnt my fault.... maybe not but the recovery is .. just like the diabetic or the person with three heartattacks... they have a responsiblity to eat right and expercise just like we have a responsiblity to our recovery....
to become complacient and rely on our morals... or lack of and tout that we have a disease hurts us all.... the chemisty of the disease makes it hard... that pathway to pleasure and life/death makes it hard as hell when it tellls us sometimes that if we dont use we will die.. but we still have to fight it... we have to see that we have to talk to someone... reach out and just not use.... plain and simple.... we dont HAVE to know why we are an addict... would help explain things... but it isnt a prerequsite to recovery... just got to know and believe that no matter what we CAN NOT USE... cant not control it ... period...
it is a disease and when we tell our families dont be afraid to say that but be quick to say and that isnt my fault that my use turned into addiction and some dont ... but my recovery is my responsibility now that I know and I take responsiblity and I am getting help..... period... that is really all we can do to educate... action really do speak louder than words but I believe we have to have both.... the public stigma used to be much worse... but with time we all can work miracles...
I dont know if that is what you wanted.. chris but that is my opinion... you cant leave out the second part of the equation... and people dont change over night... and at first that phrase felt like a cop out to me too.. until I realized it didnt mean that I was copping out it just meant that I was taking full responsiblity for what was my responsiblity and not for what wasnt....
Teresa
well, i dont know if you can compare addiction to other diseases, like comparing apples to oranges, you dont treat cancer with insulin or visa versa, every disease is treated differently as every individual with a certain disease is treated individually.
terrianne
terrianne
I sort of was taking regarding the public 'stimga' in comparision to the word 'disease' and how it really isnt all that different... the necessary about the method of treatment... not the method of treatment at all.... nothing was said or implied regarding methods or choices of treatment in addiction.... and I specifically stayed away from cancer for obivious reasons.....
teresa
ps.... not about feeling sorry for any one... there is a stanch difference between feeling sorry for someone and feeling compassion and love.. v. distane over there 'disease' and wanting to osticize them..... it has nothing to do with feeling sorry for me.... but dont judge me....
teresa
ps.... not about feeling sorry for any one... there is a stanch difference between feeling sorry for someone and feeling compassion and love.. v. distane over there 'disease' and wanting to osticize them..... it has nothing to do with feeling sorry for me.... but dont judge me....
Teresa - that's awesome. Just awesome. I will read and reread your words over and over again, just my mind a churning. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Very thought provoking and insightful
Thank you.
Thank you.
Terrianne, with all due respect - I think you missed my point......but it's all good. Hope that didn't come across rudely...cuz I meant that very respectfully.
God Bless.
God Bless.
thank you chris.... I was hoping it would be taken the right way.... after all I have had alot of time to think about this...lol.... Recovery is work and I never get tired or done educating people in the public... In fact I enjoy that the most. I have my bad days but for the most part...
Thanks again...
Teresa......
Thanks again...
Teresa......
no offence taken chris i am glad you found your answer you were looking for.
terrianne
terrianne
Thank you Terrianne, honestly. I hate upsetting or hurting people, and if I feel I want to say something that might, most of the time I refrain, which is something I am learning to do - to speak out more, but nicely. Most of my life I bottled it in (and see what happened?)
And once and old timer told......"mean what you say, but don't be mean when/how you say it"
Chris
And PS - 'technically' speaking, I didn't find my 'answer' per se........don't know if that will ever come, and maybe it can only come from me. I just really appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions (even your's terrianne) Which is why I wanted to start this thread.
And once and old timer told......"mean what you say, but don't be mean when/how you say it"
Chris
And PS - 'technically' speaking, I didn't find my 'answer' per se........don't know if that will ever come, and maybe it can only come from me. I just really appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions (even your's terrianne) Which is why I wanted to start this thread.
chris,
your fine, i am hard one to offend anyway, but i honestly was just saying how i veiwed my thoughts, i try to keep it simple. i appreciate your explanaition alot but really none needed. we all share the same bond and i apologise if i took your post the wrong way, it's easy for me to do i am blonde : )
terrianne
your fine, i am hard one to offend anyway, but i honestly was just saying how i veiwed my thoughts, i try to keep it simple. i appreciate your explanaition alot but really none needed. we all share the same bond and i apologise if i took your post the wrong way, it's easy for me to do i am blonde : )
terrianne
Thanks Terrianne, I appreciate your thoughts and taking the time to respond and 'chat' with me. I can take a lesson in how you deal with things, and hopefully one day I won't disect as much and make things a little simpler for me.....
Have a good day.
Have a good day.
your welcome chris and thanks too you as well, i wasnt always a simple thinker trust me, it took me a long time to straighten it all out for me in my own head. like i said we are as all as unique as our finger prints. just keep on doing what your doing and you too will unlock the answers : )
terrianne
terrianne
Thanks Terrianne. Without getting all deep on you (haha, yeah right).......I don't know or think my 'search' or journey is so much for 'answers' per se (might get them, might not - but I've already realized I can go nuts if that is my goal)......but my 'goal' (for lack of better term) is a happy, peaceful Chris. Serenity. Secure, strong and confident Chris - happy to be me, in my own skin. If/when I reach serenity, the answers may or may not be clear, but I have a funny feeling that even if they aren't, I am not going to care too much - know what I mean??
chris,
believe it or not you are making very much sense to me, for me it came from alot of soul searching and deep thinking as well. i felt like i had so many unanswered questions. but alot of them there really wasnt answers and there really wasnt anything to figure out. it was a matter of having your own thoughts and opinions and like you said being confident about yourself and those thoughts, decisions etc. i hope that makes sense. because basicly they are your own thoughts and thats what makes you who you are, alot of things in life there is no right or wrong answers. only what is right for you.
terrianne
believe it or not you are making very much sense to me, for me it came from alot of soul searching and deep thinking as well. i felt like i had so many unanswered questions. but alot of them there really wasnt answers and there really wasnt anything to figure out. it was a matter of having your own thoughts and opinions and like you said being confident about yourself and those thoughts, decisions etc. i hope that makes sense. because basicly they are your own thoughts and thats what makes you who you are, alot of things in life there is no right or wrong answers. only what is right for you.
terrianne
Dear Chris B.,
I really know where you're coming from on this. I completely feel the same cop-out feeling as you in regards to it being called a disease. I believe it's a ploy by the medical community in bringing the addict "out". By that, I mean, that if an addict can seek assistance with their "problem", because their "problem" has been re-phrased as a disease, then at least the addict is in motion to recovery. I agree that there will be stigma for a long time. But, I also believe that society is becoming more forgiving and that there are a lot (more than a lot) of people out there with their personal vices and/or transgressions of some kind. Point is, we've all got a "problem" with something in our lives, those that don't are lucky or liars. When we all decide that each and every one of us is a brother and a sister of the same civilization (coming soon), we will all band together to rid our lives of the factors in the world that force us to call our roses by another name.
I really know where you're coming from on this. I completely feel the same cop-out feeling as you in regards to it being called a disease. I believe it's a ploy by the medical community in bringing the addict "out". By that, I mean, that if an addict can seek assistance with their "problem", because their "problem" has been re-phrased as a disease, then at least the addict is in motion to recovery. I agree that there will be stigma for a long time. But, I also believe that society is becoming more forgiving and that there are a lot (more than a lot) of people out there with their personal vices and/or transgressions of some kind. Point is, we've all got a "problem" with something in our lives, those that don't are lucky or liars. When we all decide that each and every one of us is a brother and a sister of the same civilization (coming soon), we will all band together to rid our lives of the factors in the world that force us to call our roses by another name.
Wow! did I really say all of that? I'm actually very reasonable and logical--even though that post sounds a little new-ager-istic-- forgive my corniness I have just got very high hopes for us all.
P.S.
Terrianne,
I love the Mark Twain Quote--beautifully put.
P.S.
Terrianne,
I love the Mark Twain Quote--beautifully put.
