Joined: April 24, 2007
Hey y'all...
I stop by to read here now and then...I even re-read this post I wrote a few years back to remind myself to simmer down. Old habits die hard, especially the ones established while in addiction - yup, I was in addiction...addicted to my addict.
It is gratifying to know that "Things that don't help..." and maybe some others I put out into cyberspace are helping folks when they need it.
Please remember that I was there...I was IN IT...I was sick and obsessed and doing every single thing on this list.
Thank God I stopped.
You can, too.
At the time of your choosing.
Peace ~ M&M
Things that DONT help WHAT NOT TO DO:
1) Anything we do for them that they CAN and SHOULD do for themselves.
Examples:
-Running interference with schools or employers
-Making excuses for them (He sick, shes depressed, she had a hard childhood, he has chronic pain, he really wants to be clean, he needs me, shes so youngfill it in with your favorite)
-Paying debts to ANYONEloans, dealers, bills
-Giving them money
-Calling hospitals, detoxes, rehabs, doctors
-Holding or doling out medications, especially risk-reduction meds like suboxone or methadone.
Being a whirlwind of activity helps us, not themit makes us feel like we are doing something when in actuality we are spinning our wheels. It relieves of us of some guilt we may be feeling about how this could happen in our family, because really, this is all about us (NOT).
2) Pretending that what we do is for them when it is really for us. This is a hard one to get past because in the beginning we are absolutely convinced that our motives are pure and unselfishwe want to helpwe MUST help. Upon closer examination however, we will discover that much of what we have done has been for us, to satisfy ourselves that we have done everything possible to stop this train, and to maintain the illusion that what we are doing is helpful
3) Watching.
The kind of vigilance some of us exercised in the beginning (and some still do) is painful to recall. Watching moods, checking phone bills and cell phones, counting pills, sitting with them watching movies or playing games to take their minds off things (as if!), asking 'polite' questions about their day or their feelings.
4) Monitoring meeting attendancethis one is a form of watching and is big: Did you get to a meeting today? You said you were going to a meeting. Do you need a ride to your meeting? Isnt this your meeting night? What step are you on? Do you have a sponsor? Here, I bought you a Big Book. How was your meeting? Did you like tonights meeting? Arrrrggggh!!!!
Even worse is going to meetings with them. If you need a meeting, get yourself to AlAnon. Going to NA/AA meetings with them is a form of voyeurism and an invasion of privacy. The last word in the name of ANY 12 step program is Anonymous. The same is true of finding an online recovery community and sharing that with themicky.
5) Keeping score.
Scorekeeping is part of watching. You said you were going do X or Y but you havent. I thought you were supposed to A or B, have you? I have done A,B, and C, but you have not done X,Y, or Z. Score keeping can also mean counting sober time.
6)Talking.
Try listening instead. Saying it louder, or saying it differently, or saying it more is all the sameeventually no one hears you. You will know when you are talked out because you will be as sick of the sound of your own voice as they are. Talking includes asking questions, lots and lots of questions.
7) Controlling.
You cant. Stop trying.
Control is central to the "MO" of the codependent person. They control their self-esteem by catering to others' needs. They control by their over-responsible performance, picking up where others leave off. (Dr. Irene Matiatos) This gets back to doing for them what they should do for themselves. See #1.
8) Guilting.
This is just one more way to make it about us. How could you do this? What are you thinking? (Believe me, you dont want to know.) Whats so hard about your life? Dont you care about ____? Watching you do this is killing me. You wouldnt if you loved me. (I cant really love you because I dont love myself.)
9) Picking up the pieces.
Allowing one to learn from ones mistakes is one of the greatest dignities we can offer. Viewing the wreckage of the past is necessary and vital to growth. Every time we indulge in #1, of which #9 is a part, we tell them that we do not believe in them, that we do not see them as capable, that we have no faith in their ability to do the right thing,that they cannot take care of themselves. We send a message of incompetence and powerlessness, and chances are good they already feel this way, so all we do is reinforce a lousy self-image.
10) Shrinking or Sponsoring
You are not your loved ones doctor, therapist, or sponsor. All of your so-called understanding is annoying and makes it about you again. Stop trying to get into her head...it is not someplace you should be. Everything you are learning about addiction is powerful if you use it to help YOU, but once you use to be disgustingly understanding or to try to 12-step your loved one, it becomes the tool of the devil. Instead ask yourself why you are so addicted to your addicted loved one...why it is so hard to tell where she begins and you end.
11) Having expectations.
Expectations are disappointments waiting to happen. On the other hand, having low expectations leads to excuse-making (see #1).
12) NOT working on ourselves.
It sure is easy to look at the addict and believe that all would be right in our worlds (and more importantly in our interior lives) if only.
Instead, try looking at what you contribute to the dynamic. What is it in us that makes us need to project-manage them and their disease? What is the sickness in me that I feel that all positive outcomes hinge on what I do or say? Once again, it's all about me.
13) Seeing your situation as special or different.
This has a name in 12 step settings: terminal uniqueness. We are all terminally unique. In codependents this most often takes the form of Shes so wonderful, sweet, funnywhen shes not using. Yep, they are all terrific, sensitive souls when the drugs have not robbed them of that. Your addicted loved one is no more or less special, spiritual, kind, creative, loving...(fill in the blank) than any other addict, including those junkies you see outside meetings or in line at the clinic.. Everyone is someones father, wife, child, friend. Your family member may just more fortunate in education, economics, community support, or family structure. None of us are more special than another. There but for the grace of God...
To those who have an addicted loved one who is really trying, but not successful.
Suggestion: discuss this list with your loved one, rewrite a contract or guidelines for each other.
when there is a disagreement, go back to the contract. A contract for acceptable behavior is suggested at NA.... keep it simple and not too many items on the list.
I know it is hard, they sometimes are not available long enough to have a discussion. In that case if they are not participating, then that's their answer - I'm not participating.
Suggestion: discuss this list with your loved one, rewrite a contract or guidelines for each other.
when there is a disagreement, go back to the contract. A contract for acceptable behavior is suggested at NA.... keep it simple and not too many items on the list.
I know it is hard, they sometimes are not available long enough to have a discussion. In that case if they are not participating, then that's their answer - I'm not participating.
bump to the top
bump
Ny...thanks for bumping....I think the contract is workable as far as what behaviors you'll accept...but discussing the list with us....not so much.....I'd have to say that kind of invalidates half the list....
hummmm.... food for thought...
Contracts...pfffft.
My girl started laughing at contracts in the 7th grade. Boundaries are boundaries and once you start living them there is no need of a contract, despite what NA says. We both know the truth of things...let's just leave it at that.
If you want something simple:
-No money changes hands. Period.
-Behave like a participating member of the family unit (we all know what that looks and feels like)
-Be respectful of everyone...be nice or leave.
-You are not entitled to anything. Nothing. It's all given freely because we want to. When we don't want to anymore, we won't.
-Work, help out, and keep reasonable hours...or find somewhere you like better.
My girl started laughing at contracts in the 7th grade. Boundaries are boundaries and once you start living them there is no need of a contract, despite what NA says. We both know the truth of things...let's just leave it at that.
If you want something simple:
-No money changes hands. Period.
-Behave like a participating member of the family unit (we all know what that looks and feels like)
-Be respectful of everyone...be nice or leave.
-You are not entitled to anything. Nothing. It's all given freely because we want to. When we don't want to anymore, we won't.
-Work, help out, and keep reasonable hours...or find somewhere you like better.
Lol...M&M !!! ...good to see you !!! Miss you !
Haha! I agree with M&M--Contracts are a joke! We spent $3000 for an Outward Bound Teen camp in the wilderness that was supposed to help him find himself at age 16 when he started disobeying all the things M&M listed above. After 2 weeks he ran away and walked 6 miles to find a 7/11 and called me to come get him. I said absolutely not and to walk back to that camp. He did but at the end of the camp a week later they had a meeting with the parents and the teen and a counselor and wanted him to sign a contract. He looked at us and said"no way" and tore it up in front of us.
Well--you can guess the rest --he never got better and only worse!
Contracts are a waste of paper!
Lori
Well--you can guess the rest --he never got better and only worse!
Contracts are a waste of paper!
Lori
Just read all the things NOT to do. I think I've been guilty of most of them.
That's a wake up call.
Thanks
That's a wake up call.
Thanks
THANK YOU. I am new to this crazy train. Just about 3 weeks of secrets blowing up. I have run the gament of emotions of panic, fear, disbelief, desolation, hope, crazy hope (denial) and back to desolation. About 3 days ago, I sent a flowery happy letter to my sister about this situation, because my son sat me down and basically told me a well-developed lie about his life. That lie was shattered last night. I feel like an idiot for believing him.
Honestly, reading about people dealing with this into the 40s and 50s with their kids is way too much for me to process right now. My son is 17.
I feel like I do a pretty good job with some of these. I won't give him money or help him out with missing school/work. But, I feel a sick attachment to him out of fear. I keep saying, "I have to stop this now, while he can still quit, etc."-I really want to stop this train.
Is it wrong to try to send him to detox, military school or boys camp, etc? I realize it does not always help. In my mind, I feel like he is 17. Once he turns 18 in eleven months, I am sure he will move into this house with all these kids. Is it wrong to try something while I still have a chance?
Thanks, for all the reminders of what NOT to do.
Honestly, reading about people dealing with this into the 40s and 50s with their kids is way too much for me to process right now. My son is 17.
I feel like I do a pretty good job with some of these. I won't give him money or help him out with missing school/work. But, I feel a sick attachment to him out of fear. I keep saying, "I have to stop this now, while he can still quit, etc."-I really want to stop this train.
Is it wrong to try to send him to detox, military school or boys camp, etc? I realize it does not always help. In my mind, I feel like he is 17. Once he turns 18 in eleven months, I am sure he will move into this house with all these kids. Is it wrong to try something while I still have a chance?
Thanks, for all the reminders of what NOT to do.
Sorry you are going through this. I suspect it will probably get worse before it gets better. Your son could just rebel a bit and then decide he wants more from life. Some people figure it out themselves. I believe the best chance for this to happen is for him to suffer the consequences of his choices. You are still in mothering mode since this is a new development so it is hard to shift gears and not try to protect him. Be there if he needs serious help with detox or rehab but don't otherwise try to save him from himself. He will do what he wants to do no matter.
I remember age 17 when no one could tell my son what to do anymore. He wanted his independence but was still quick to ask us for help when he really needed it. Your son still thinks you are his cushion. He hasn't learned otherwise yet. I would guess that your son will at some point need you to bail him out, pick him up, or otherwise rescue him in some way. He might want to move back in with you but still do what he wants. You need to set boundaries early and stick to it.
I wish I had done this early instead of dragging it out for years. It might have been more successful. None of this is easy and you might need to get a counselor for yourself to help you through it.
I remember age 17 when no one could tell my son what to do anymore. He wanted his independence but was still quick to ask us for help when he really needed it. Your son still thinks you are his cushion. He hasn't learned otherwise yet. I would guess that your son will at some point need you to bail him out, pick him up, or otherwise rescue him in some way. He might want to move back in with you but still do what he wants. You need to set boundaries early and stick to it.
I wish I had done this early instead of dragging it out for years. It might have been more successful. None of this is easy and you might need to get a counselor for yourself to help you through it.
Thanks, Buggingme.
I have just recently realized how absorbed I am in this and realize I need support. These messages here really help me! It is so painful when your friends are talking about x going fishing, x doing basketball, music, whatever, and x going somewhere with family-etc. etc. They will ask what my son is up to---running away and sneaking out at night, yelling 'b****' at me, and deciding he has a new family. sigh....
It is hard not to become rather obsessed with fear and grief. I am trying to let him fall. He recently would not stop calling me names and would not leave the house-so I did contact the sheriff. It was so sad and hard. But...I have to admit, when I went to bed that night it felt GOOD too! I DO MATTER here. :)
I have just recently realized how absorbed I am in this and realize I need support. These messages here really help me! It is so painful when your friends are talking about x going fishing, x doing basketball, music, whatever, and x going somewhere with family-etc. etc. They will ask what my son is up to---running away and sneaking out at night, yelling 'b****' at me, and deciding he has a new family. sigh....
It is hard not to become rather obsessed with fear and grief. I am trying to let him fall. He recently would not stop calling me names and would not leave the house-so I did contact the sheriff. It was so sad and hard. But...I have to admit, when I went to bed that night it felt GOOD too! I DO MATTER here. :)
You do matter and don't you forget it!! It is normal to be afraid for them. Parents do know a thing or two about life even if kids don't think so.
You can try to get your son into rehab, counseling or any other thing he is willing to do. It might help in some way but good luck getting him to go. My son at 17 just flat out refused to do anything he didn't want to do. It has been many years ago, but I thought at 17 years old you can't legally force them. Maybe my memory is failing.
That being said. I have seen people mortgage their house to send their child to rehab only to have them run away. I have seen people use their entire savings or their 401K to pay for rehab only to have their child leave again and again. If a child wants to use drugs, they will find a way. Kids can be very determined. He has to want things to change or they won't change. I personally think this independence thing is so new to your son that he still finds it quit fun. He hasn't seen the bad side yet so probably isn't ready to stop using drugs at this point.
It is hard being around other parents and for years I avoided situations where children might come up in conversation. It just added to the sadness and it is not something you want to bring up in conversation...such a downer.
You can try to get your son into rehab, counseling or any other thing he is willing to do. It might help in some way but good luck getting him to go. My son at 17 just flat out refused to do anything he didn't want to do. It has been many years ago, but I thought at 17 years old you can't legally force them. Maybe my memory is failing.
That being said. I have seen people mortgage their house to send their child to rehab only to have them run away. I have seen people use their entire savings or their 401K to pay for rehab only to have their child leave again and again. If a child wants to use drugs, they will find a way. Kids can be very determined. He has to want things to change or they won't change. I personally think this independence thing is so new to your son that he still finds it quit fun. He hasn't seen the bad side yet so probably isn't ready to stop using drugs at this point.
It is hard being around other parents and for years I avoided situations where children might come up in conversation. It just added to the sadness and it is not something you want to bring up in conversation...such a downer.
Hi, I just want to say, Bugginme, you give reallly good advice. I seen you haven't been here long at all. But you give support like if you have. That's good. Your gonna be real good help to the other moms here.! I guess, I mean, I know it's sucks where parents have to become members on a site like this. But we're here for a reason , to help each other. And that's exactly what you will do. I'm not a parent of a child who is chemically dependent. I am the person who is chemically dependent. Sucks to be me.! But Anywho, I love the advice you speak. Keep it up. You'll be big help here.! Bye.
| QUOTE |
| Is it wrong to try to send him to detox, military school or boys camp, etc? I realize it does not always help. In my mind, I feel like he is 17. Once he turns 18 in eleven months, I am sure he will move into this house with all these kids. Is it wrong to try something while I still have a chance? |
Is it wrong? Not necessarily....my daughter did not immediately show signs of giving a shi* for ages and the psyche ward, wilderness program, and LT didn't seem to do much for her - in the moment. HOWEVER, the tools she got from all of those experiences are still with her today, so I can say I would do it again. (She was also 17 when we sent her off.)
What you need to see right now is that he can already do exactly as he pleases. He doesn't have to stay anywhere or do anything he doesn't want to do. Sounds like he's already a master manipulator and your fear is what he is preying on...so far it's working pretty well, right? He's got you right where he wants you.
Take care of yourself and try to stop dancing with him...he's leading.
Peace ~ M&M
PS Con, you rock sister.
Exactly. My fear is what he manipulates. I think I have crossed the bridge to stop dancing. I have realized there comes a time when I have to let someone else deal with it. I told him that tonight. As long as he can be respectful and follow rules, I can handle it. If he doesn't I am calling for help to deal with him.
We've been riding this wave for over 5 yrs. We acknowledge and confess that we to have done just about everything on that list.
We have now realized that the harder we try, the worse it gets. Once our lease commitment end for his apartment in June we are finished with this addiction circus that is and has sucked the life out of us....along with lots of $$.
We saw a glimmer of hope and of course jumped on it and helped him get an apartment by co signing a lease so that he could get settled.
Five months later the honeymoon has once again ended and we are on the hook for his rent for 7 months.
I retired 2 yrs ago but now I have to go back to work to pay for his apartment while he sits on his a** and does nothing except blame us for everything that is wrong with his life. He will at least have somewhere warm to spend the winter but come spring we will be stopping the rent payments and will let nature take its course as we are done with this.
We have now realized that the harder we try, the worse it gets. Once our lease commitment end for his apartment in June we are finished with this addiction circus that is and has sucked the life out of us....along with lots of $$.
We saw a glimmer of hope and of course jumped on it and helped him get an apartment by co signing a lease so that he could get settled.
Five months later the honeymoon has once again ended and we are on the hook for his rent for 7 months.
I retired 2 yrs ago but now I have to go back to work to pay for his apartment while he sits on his a** and does nothing except blame us for everything that is wrong with his life. He will at least have somewhere warm to spend the winter but come spring we will be stopping the rent payments and will let nature take its course as we are done with this.
Boomer61 i am so sorry for what you are going trough and cant believe how selfish you son is t let you go back to work so you can pay for his flat...while he does nothing. Probably many parents has horror stories to tell but what you said really made me feel sad. I am presuming your son is not that young? , in age when you shouldn't look after him in financial way anymore but live your retirement in peace ! I hope now you know you cant help him until he helps himself as I always knew nobody an help me until I want really want to change and maybe it took me bit longer and more ten few attempts but i am getting there so he can too. All the best!
Boomer 61 your story is mine ten times over. We paid leases on apts. and when trying to rent an apt and background check was too much of a hurdle, we even bought a small house for her figuring she would always at least have a place to stay and a roof over her head. Of course, like everything else she never paid a penny and we went into debt and finally unloaded the place. Now she's back living with us and that is hell.
She manipulates us with hope. We tell her to leave, but she has no place to go, so here we sit locked in a box with no door. She's 35, on suboxone again and we've been on this ride since she was 16. Last week she stole the credit cards out of my wallet, but this week there's a possible job, so back on the hope train again.
She manipulates us with hope. We tell her to leave, but she has no place to go, so here we sit locked in a box with no door. She's 35, on suboxone again and we've been on this ride since she was 16. Last week she stole the credit cards out of my wallet, but this week there's a possible job, so back on the hope train again.
