Rae:
How long have you been clean? I t didn't realize you had gone off the pills. You sound great! There is such freedom in your words.
Rachel
Hey bunny as a sub user I wanted to post my thoughts.I tried ALOT of times to quit only to end up hating myself & staying on that merry go round.Weak?Yes maybe.But and Im not saying "OH everybody be like me"I did alot ALOT of research on sub alot.I visited web sites asked questions and talk it over with the people I am close with.After all was said & done I went to my Dr and talked it over with him.When it comes down to it it is a personal choice.I do feel if someone can do it by tapering or CT than do it instead of putting a different drug in your body.For me after all I learned I realized that FOR ME sub wasd the way.Just my thoughts....mj
Ok so how this take on things......
First I believe you really need to have a strong desire to quit, well me husband had that and guess what, he relasped.....
You can do ultra rapid detox, or rapid detox......both have drawbacks and could cause serious health risks...
You can impatient, 5 days, 15days, 30 days, 60days, 90days, 6months, 9months, 1year, 2years.......yes some crack addicts are away for 2 years detoxing......
You can go out patient, time usually determined by you doctor or counselor, there you can one on one or group, set by your needs at the time.....
You can set up your own private therapy at a doctor of your choice to work out issues.....
You can taper or go cold turkey.......these to present at times there own problems, you have know if the drug you take needs to be tapered of or if you can just stop. Opiate withdraw shouldn't kill you.......
Then you have the option of Methadone which has been around since the late 60'S, what horror stories are attached to that......
Or you can try Suboxone, which has been around for 25 years, and has been used elsewhere for a while but in the US, I think only since 1996.......this has a good and bad side to it read up on it......but it is much better than methadone....
Now you add AA/NA guess what it even has a bad side that I found....Orange Papers......
Ok now you got the ways but what of your circumstances.....are you a single mom living day to day....not able to stop work for rehab or at home detox.......are you in a high position, in your job where as soon as someone finds out about your addiction they are gonna cut your throat and life as you know it will be done.......are you a father with a family that depends on you and taking time off will risk everything you tried to build for them........Maybe you have tried and failed so many times, that you are at your wits end........have you gone through withdrawl as many times as Vinny, think the count was 84, don't remember anyone saying that they could beat him.... (BTW Vinny hope you are fine)
There is a way for everyone to end thier addiction......it must be an individual choice......no right or wrong way here, no my way or the highway ,no jugmental thinking.....Just postive vibes.....because I think you guys know that you are all in this together............and searching for one common ground freedom from your drug of choice........
Good Luck to all of you no matter what way you choose....Life is truely wonderful and well worth living to its full potential........
Kerry........I don't think anyone was picking on you sweetie.......
First I believe you really need to have a strong desire to quit, well me husband had that and guess what, he relasped.....
You can do ultra rapid detox, or rapid detox......both have drawbacks and could cause serious health risks...
You can impatient, 5 days, 15days, 30 days, 60days, 90days, 6months, 9months, 1year, 2years.......yes some crack addicts are away for 2 years detoxing......
You can go out patient, time usually determined by you doctor or counselor, there you can one on one or group, set by your needs at the time.....
You can set up your own private therapy at a doctor of your choice to work out issues.....
You can taper or go cold turkey.......these to present at times there own problems, you have know if the drug you take needs to be tapered of or if you can just stop. Opiate withdraw shouldn't kill you.......
Then you have the option of Methadone which has been around since the late 60'S, what horror stories are attached to that......
Or you can try Suboxone, which has been around for 25 years, and has been used elsewhere for a while but in the US, I think only since 1996.......this has a good and bad side to it read up on it......but it is much better than methadone....
Now you add AA/NA guess what it even has a bad side that I found....Orange Papers......
Ok now you got the ways but what of your circumstances.....are you a single mom living day to day....not able to stop work for rehab or at home detox.......are you in a high position, in your job where as soon as someone finds out about your addiction they are gonna cut your throat and life as you know it will be done.......are you a father with a family that depends on you and taking time off will risk everything you tried to build for them........Maybe you have tried and failed so many times, that you are at your wits end........have you gone through withdrawl as many times as Vinny, think the count was 84, don't remember anyone saying that they could beat him.... (BTW Vinny hope you are fine)
There is a way for everyone to end thier addiction......it must be an individual choice......no right or wrong way here, no my way or the highway ,no jugmental thinking.....Just postive vibes.....because I think you guys know that you are all in this together............and searching for one common ground freedom from your drug of choice........
Good Luck to all of you no matter what way you choose....Life is truely wonderful and well worth living to its full potential........
Kerry........I don't think anyone was picking on you sweetie.......
Danielle and Kerry,
Neither of you should feel the need to apologize about your choices, nor should you have to defend yourselves in response to sarcastic, put-down posts. I've learned a lot from your willingness to honestly share your experiences here -- even when you've felt at your lowest and most vulnerable. In the end, that's the most powerful thing we have to share, our personal experiences. Peace, M.
Neither of you should feel the need to apologize about your choices, nor should you have to defend yourselves in response to sarcastic, put-down posts. I've learned a lot from your willingness to honestly share your experiences here -- even when you've felt at your lowest and most vulnerable. In the end, that's the most powerful thing we have to share, our personal experiences. Peace, M.
Hi,
I'm not posting about sub. you all already know my feelings about it. What I'd like to say is, the list of reasons for not going into rehab, outpatient, etc. are not reasons, they are excuses. If someone wants and needs to get involved with getting clean and or sober there is ALWAYS a way to work it out. Saying one can't do something because of a job, kids, money etc..IS AN EXCUSE nothing more. Thats a fact not my opinion.
Misty you said,
"First I believe you really need to have a strong desire to quit, well me husband had that and guess what, he relasped".....
Fact, your husband relapsed , as I did once, because he didn't do what he had to do to stay clean. A desire is good, but it's a desire to go to any and all lenghts
for recovery. A desire to get and stay clean AND the WILLINGNESS to do what ever it takes. There are NO circumstances that would keep anyone from saving there lives only excuses.
Take care.........................................God bless...................................Bob
I'm not posting about sub. you all already know my feelings about it. What I'd like to say is, the list of reasons for not going into rehab, outpatient, etc. are not reasons, they are excuses. If someone wants and needs to get involved with getting clean and or sober there is ALWAYS a way to work it out. Saying one can't do something because of a job, kids, money etc..IS AN EXCUSE nothing more. Thats a fact not my opinion.
Misty you said,
"First I believe you really need to have a strong desire to quit, well me husband had that and guess what, he relasped".....
Fact, your husband relapsed , as I did once, because he didn't do what he had to do to stay clean. A desire is good, but it's a desire to go to any and all lenghts
for recovery. A desire to get and stay clean AND the WILLINGNESS to do what ever it takes. There are NO circumstances that would keep anyone from saving there lives only excuses.
Take care.........................................God bless...................................Bob
Bob, that is ridiculous.....
Some people CANNOT go away to an inpatient treatment.... How can you say that that is only an excuse?? You take a single mom who would lose her job if she takes another sick day.... You take someone who CAN'T take off of work or who does not have the money to go in somewhere...
Yes, I could have gone to rehab.... I have a husband at home who works very hard and lots of loving family members.... But I chose NOT to go away for 30 days and leave my 3 year old child.
Did you stop to think how leaving for an entire month would affect a toddler? How when I go away on a business trip for even 5 days, he cries at night and calls and begs me to come home.
I chose to go another route in my recovery because I had already made a lot of mistakes in my life..... And I didn't want my child to suffer any more than he had to. So that wasn't an excuse - that was a fact of life
Some people CANNOT go away to an inpatient treatment.... How can you say that that is only an excuse?? You take a single mom who would lose her job if she takes another sick day.... You take someone who CAN'T take off of work or who does not have the money to go in somewhere...
Yes, I could have gone to rehab.... I have a husband at home who works very hard and lots of loving family members.... But I chose NOT to go away for 30 days and leave my 3 year old child.
Did you stop to think how leaving for an entire month would affect a toddler? How when I go away on a business trip for even 5 days, he cries at night and calls and begs me to come home.
I chose to go another route in my recovery because I had already made a lot of mistakes in my life..... And I didn't want my child to suffer any more than he had to. So that wasn't an excuse - that was a fact of life
bob,
thats a very good point. i have two kids. if i got hit by a car and needed to be hospitalized i dont know what excuse i would have for that one. what would i do say no let me die cause i have two kids at home who need to see me suffer absolutely not.
i think the point here is that there are several options. whatever option you use there should be followed up with a program. all my dr's have told me that the highest success rates are through 12 step programs wether it be aa na sa ra ma ha ca oea . therapy is needed along with whatever decision you make.
for a new comer asking what the first step here is what the question was. i definately would want to know all my options. there are several different ways to treat one disease this we know. but the dr doesnt prescribe someone with a mild case of something with an extreme dose of an option at first visit. i do believe it should be proceeded with caution as with any disease. you dont go in for a splinter in your finger and have your whole finger removed. unless it progressed into gain green. point is some cases are more extreme then others. some are needed to be treated more agressivly then others.
thats just my understanding of it all anyhow.
terrianne
thats a very good point. i have two kids. if i got hit by a car and needed to be hospitalized i dont know what excuse i would have for that one. what would i do say no let me die cause i have two kids at home who need to see me suffer absolutely not.
i think the point here is that there are several options. whatever option you use there should be followed up with a program. all my dr's have told me that the highest success rates are through 12 step programs wether it be aa na sa ra ma ha ca oea . therapy is needed along with whatever decision you make.
for a new comer asking what the first step here is what the question was. i definately would want to know all my options. there are several different ways to treat one disease this we know. but the dr doesnt prescribe someone with a mild case of something with an extreme dose of an option at first visit. i do believe it should be proceeded with caution as with any disease. you dont go in for a splinter in your finger and have your whole finger removed. unless it progressed into gain green. point is some cases are more extreme then others. some are needed to be treated more agressivly then others.
thats just my understanding of it all anyhow.
terrianne
Bob, What would you suggest to the person who doesn't have the money to go to an in-patient program. It is my understanding it is very expensive.....to the tune of $30,000-$40,000 for 30 days. Let's say that person has no insurance and lives in a state where there are no govt. programs. I know many people in Ithis predicament. None of them have opted for Sub, however, they just continue fighting the disease without the luxury of a 30K program. Is that not a valid reason to you? How should those people get themselves into a detox center and get the bill paid? Let's say work or time is not even a problem, just the lack of money.
ok.. kerry for the record... you relapsed ... big deal in the grand scheme of things.. most do and life goes on.. you get up and try again... put the guilt where it needs to go and the shame with it...
and when i read that your first response to this thread when some one i saw as new asking what the first step was .. was you chiming in on taking another drug... not "I tried this first and it didnt work" or "you could do this or that and then maybe sub"... but you said get sub its great and oh dont forget the part about getting her all uncomfortable and not checking into rehab as an option cause she is a single parent...lots of single moms go to rehab... me included... it was wrong i my opinion to come out of the gate and push the sub... my first thought was my God that post made you sound like a glorified drug dealer... you asked for my honesty and directly to you so here it is...
you did try other things and for what ever reason they didnt work.. but your first post did not reflect any of that... just go get sub.....
as for the rest of my posts on this thread it was directed mainly to someone else.... not you that is the only part of my post directed to you that was named as such.... i wish you well in your path... but .... the sucess or failure remains to be seen....
as for what i have... i have not had a relapse in almost five years... i live happily with my daughter and have a good friendship relationship with my ex and most everyone around me.... I live my program and people come to me daily that want honesty and compassion... they dont get lots of frilly things but they get the TRUTH... I have a strong program and i dont have the hell today of counting any milligrams of pills or running to the pharmacy to get them or doctors ect... that is what i have and believe it or not that is my sincere with for you and all here on this board.... if you cant accept that then that is on you.....
stop defending your choice and just do what your doctors says.... get on with it... and btw.. this 'augument' would be happening now if you hadnt dragged me in to it... but tomorrow this will be my fault tooo.. right...
Teresa
and when i read that your first response to this thread when some one i saw as new asking what the first step was .. was you chiming in on taking another drug... not "I tried this first and it didnt work" or "you could do this or that and then maybe sub"... but you said get sub its great and oh dont forget the part about getting her all uncomfortable and not checking into rehab as an option cause she is a single parent...lots of single moms go to rehab... me included... it was wrong i my opinion to come out of the gate and push the sub... my first thought was my God that post made you sound like a glorified drug dealer... you asked for my honesty and directly to you so here it is...
you did try other things and for what ever reason they didnt work.. but your first post did not reflect any of that... just go get sub.....
as for the rest of my posts on this thread it was directed mainly to someone else.... not you that is the only part of my post directed to you that was named as such.... i wish you well in your path... but .... the sucess or failure remains to be seen....
as for what i have... i have not had a relapse in almost five years... i live happily with my daughter and have a good friendship relationship with my ex and most everyone around me.... I live my program and people come to me daily that want honesty and compassion... they dont get lots of frilly things but they get the TRUTH... I have a strong program and i dont have the hell today of counting any milligrams of pills or running to the pharmacy to get them or doctors ect... that is what i have and believe it or not that is my sincere with for you and all here on this board.... if you cant accept that then that is on you.....
stop defending your choice and just do what your doctors says.... get on with it... and btw.. this 'augument' would be happening now if you hadnt dragged me in to it... but tomorrow this will be my fault tooo.. right...
Teresa
To singlemom,
I apologize for starting all this crap about sub on your thread. I am truely sorry. If I were new here I wouldn't want to post again,LOL hope you don't think we all have lost it. I am bitchin about sub,Kerry is upset with Teresa, Danielle thinks Bob is ridiculous. Teresa and Bob are going to take the blame for this no matter what,LOL they always do. Anyway, I agree with Bob people have successfully detoxed without the help of sub even though they had children. You make arrangements. Anyway, singlemom no matter what route you want to go with your recovery it is important that you do what is best for you in your life and your personal situation. I have got to go baby is very sick this evening. Talk to you all later, Rae
I apologize for starting all this crap about sub on your thread. I am truely sorry. If I were new here I wouldn't want to post again,LOL hope you don't think we all have lost it. I am bitchin about sub,Kerry is upset with Teresa, Danielle thinks Bob is ridiculous. Teresa and Bob are going to take the blame for this no matter what,LOL they always do. Anyway, I agree with Bob people have successfully detoxed without the help of sub even though they had children. You make arrangements. Anyway, singlemom no matter what route you want to go with your recovery it is important that you do what is best for you in your life and your personal situation. I have got to go baby is very sick this evening. Talk to you all later, Rae
Daneille,
What happens if a single mother gets hit by a car? Does she tell the ambulance to leave her in the street because she has kids and can't go to the hospital?
It's an excuse, nothing more. There is Always a way. Why can't someone take off work? #1 for anyone thats a first timer, it's a law that an employer must give an employee an oppritunity to straighten out there life. And even if the person loses the job, so what. Save your life first then get another job. It might be inconvieniant but not impossible. Whats more important, someones life or job?
"Did you stop to think how leaving for an entire month would affect a toddler"?
Thats a damn poor excuse, it's nothing more than you justifying your not going.
Yes it is an excuse, you didn't want to go, which is fine, but you used your kid as an excuse, that is not only wrong it's a lie. The real reason for not going was probably fear or you just wanting to do it your way.
And To Whoever....
And as far as money etc. for detox/rehab. I didn't have insurance, I did 33 days.
It's the same as going to the ER, if you go into rehab and say I don't have money or insurance but I need to save my life, they WILL work something out.
I did it, and so did alot of other people I know and don't know, but heard them share about it. You think the only people in rehab are the people with money and or insurance. I've even heard people with no insurance sometimes get approved for longer stays than those with insurance.
These are not only my opinions, these are facts from people that have been there, me included, if anyone tries to tell me they CAN"T go to rehab or whatever
and tries to give me a "reason"= Excuse why not, there talking to the wrong guy
been there done that. It's NEVER I can't.....It's I WON"T...But I pray you finally someday get that moment of clarity and say....I WILL...........
Take care....................................God bless..............................Bob
What happens if a single mother gets hit by a car? Does she tell the ambulance to leave her in the street because she has kids and can't go to the hospital?
It's an excuse, nothing more. There is Always a way. Why can't someone take off work? #1 for anyone thats a first timer, it's a law that an employer must give an employee an oppritunity to straighten out there life. And even if the person loses the job, so what. Save your life first then get another job. It might be inconvieniant but not impossible. Whats more important, someones life or job?
"Did you stop to think how leaving for an entire month would affect a toddler"?
Thats a damn poor excuse, it's nothing more than you justifying your not going.
Yes it is an excuse, you didn't want to go, which is fine, but you used your kid as an excuse, that is not only wrong it's a lie. The real reason for not going was probably fear or you just wanting to do it your way.
And To Whoever....
And as far as money etc. for detox/rehab. I didn't have insurance, I did 33 days.
It's the same as going to the ER, if you go into rehab and say I don't have money or insurance but I need to save my life, they WILL work something out.
I did it, and so did alot of other people I know and don't know, but heard them share about it. You think the only people in rehab are the people with money and or insurance. I've even heard people with no insurance sometimes get approved for longer stays than those with insurance.
These are not only my opinions, these are facts from people that have been there, me included, if anyone tries to tell me they CAN"T go to rehab or whatever
and tries to give me a "reason"= Excuse why not, there talking to the wrong guy
been there done that. It's NEVER I can't.....It's I WON"T...But I pray you finally someday get that moment of clarity and say....I WILL...........
Take care....................................God bless..............................Bob
Sorry to tell you, but you are wrong. In GA., they will not let you in the front door of any rehab without payment up front or a committment from an insurance company.
I have known of instances where they slip up, let the person in based on their insurance, then find out the insurance will not pay the required amount, and then they kick the patient out.
It may be different in your state, or many other states, but here, money is top priority.
I was asking you this question because I know people with a genuine need and desire to go to rehab and it just can't happen without the money.
And you may even say they could borrow the money. While I would be inclined to go in debt for 30K-40K to save my life, it is not an option for everyone.
First of all, Bob, I have insurance that would have covered rehab.....I looked into it and it would have covered the best of the best.... It would have been far easier for me to go to rehab to get over this addiction if I didn't have responsibilities.... To have 30 days where you don't have to worry about bills or having to work when you're sick or having to pretend everything is okay when you feel like crap... I would have had a nice bed and the best counselors and time away to think of only ME
I chose not to go because of my son.... I was hospitalized last year for a week for meningitis and it hurt both of us mentally for me to be away from him.... I sure didn't want to volunteer to do it. Sure, if I was in a car accident and had to be hospitalized, I would.... But I wouldn't CHOOSE to do it unless it was my only option left....
It's funny how you are an advocate for leaving your children and your responsibilities behind, but you are close-minded about other treatment options?
I've never denied that rehab is great for some people.... And, unlike you, I've never told anyone that they are right or wrong in anything that they do. It's not up to me, or you, to judge. People are on here because they want advice, they want support.... I've never put anyone down for either trying to get clean or for being addicted and not being able to get clean.
You just automatically assuming that someone was making excuses because they didn't choose what you think is best was flat-out wrong. Until you have a PhD in drug addiction or psychology, you are not an expert in all of this any more than I am.... Therefore, you can only state what has worked best for you. You do not live with these people on here, you do not know their home situation....
Show a little compassion for other people.... You are quick to judge but how about putting yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while. Do that and you might just learn something.
Danielle
I chose not to go because of my son.... I was hospitalized last year for a week for meningitis and it hurt both of us mentally for me to be away from him.... I sure didn't want to volunteer to do it. Sure, if I was in a car accident and had to be hospitalized, I would.... But I wouldn't CHOOSE to do it unless it was my only option left....
It's funny how you are an advocate for leaving your children and your responsibilities behind, but you are close-minded about other treatment options?
I've never denied that rehab is great for some people.... And, unlike you, I've never told anyone that they are right or wrong in anything that they do. It's not up to me, or you, to judge. People are on here because they want advice, they want support.... I've never put anyone down for either trying to get clean or for being addicted and not being able to get clean.
You just automatically assuming that someone was making excuses because they didn't choose what you think is best was flat-out wrong. Until you have a PhD in drug addiction or psychology, you are not an expert in all of this any more than I am.... Therefore, you can only state what has worked best for you. You do not live with these people on here, you do not know their home situation....
Show a little compassion for other people.... You are quick to judge but how about putting yourself in someone else's shoes every once in a while. Do that and you might just learn something.
Danielle
Hey Bob,
I haven't had time until now to get back to what you wrote.....
Now for those reading who are newcomers I am the wife of an addict.......
Now I wrote what I wrote because of what I read on here and what I personally witnessed from watching my husband go through withdrawl........
No way is right or wrong......choices are always made, no matter who you are, no matter what they are about, because they are your choices and based on the parameters of your life..........From an addiction standpoint I see this, doesn't matter how you get clean.......it is the fact that you are.....It is always said that everyone only has 1 day, today....be thankful for this day if you are clean....and never give up that you can have what others have if you aren't.....just find your way.......
Now from a ct turkey standpoint, and remember this is what I saw in my house.....Everyone is different........
The hubby was 72hours clean of herion and only 24 hours off the pills when the story starts.......He went insane, he was trying to leave half dressed, he didn't know who I was, who my son was........He was agitated....and uncontrolable.....It took 40 mgs of valium to knock him out......Thank god I had some stashed away, because I have no idea what would have happened....Now he could just be the exception to the bad flu thing....but it was more like Captain Tripp's..........
So now take my husbands story and imagine if that was to be a single mom with no support, all alone in her house with her kids.......
Love to all,
Tina
I haven't had time until now to get back to what you wrote.....
Now for those reading who are newcomers I am the wife of an addict.......
Now I wrote what I wrote because of what I read on here and what I personally witnessed from watching my husband go through withdrawl........
No way is right or wrong......choices are always made, no matter who you are, no matter what they are about, because they are your choices and based on the parameters of your life..........From an addiction standpoint I see this, doesn't matter how you get clean.......it is the fact that you are.....It is always said that everyone only has 1 day, today....be thankful for this day if you are clean....and never give up that you can have what others have if you aren't.....just find your way.......
Now from a ct turkey standpoint, and remember this is what I saw in my house.....Everyone is different........
The hubby was 72hours clean of herion and only 24 hours off the pills when the story starts.......He went insane, he was trying to leave half dressed, he didn't know who I was, who my son was........He was agitated....and uncontrolable.....It took 40 mgs of valium to knock him out......Thank god I had some stashed away, because I have no idea what would have happened....Now he could just be the exception to the bad flu thing....but it was more like Captain Tripp's..........
So now take my husbands story and imagine if that was to be a single mom with no support, all alone in her house with her kids.......
Love to all,
Tina
Danielle, I do not disagree with your reasoning. I myself would prefer rehab but you have to do what is best for YOU.
Singlemom,
First, you cannot do it on your own! You need professional help. Please check into local resources in the addiction counseling area. Get some help as soon as you can.
First, you cannot do it on your own! You need professional help. Please check into local resources in the addiction counseling area. Get some help as soon as you can.
Excellent idea. Counseling HAS to be part of the equation.
That's been my whole point all along..... no one can tell someone else what is best for them. Every person has a unique situation that they are dealing with and there is no one way that is right for everyone.
And we are supposed to SUPPORT each other.... we are supposed to be on here to offer guidance and direction and support because some of the people that post on this site have nowhere else to turn. We are not here to judge.
And we are supposed to SUPPORT each other.... we are supposed to be on here to offer guidance and direction and support because some of the people that post on this site have nowhere else to turn. We are not here to judge.
Why do people think that they have to do inpatient Rehab. That is used only for extreme cases now, for people who need to be detoxed. My habit with narcotics was as bad as anyone else. I went thru outpatient rehab which is called IOP. It is very successful because of the education, physician support and group therapy and counseling on an indidvidual basis. I did not have to leave my home. Therapy was offered at my convenience. I strongly recommend to those seeking to quit narcotics along with the support of NA or AA. Replacing one drug with another drug should never be the first choice.
Just my 2cents
Just my 2cents
Outpatient rehab is also a good option. You get everything an inpatient would get except a bed. You see the family at night. What ever it is you do, be it rehab, sub or whatever, though, you need to commit 100%.
